[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by Slug71

Absolutely positively did not!

Articulate, mature response.

I don't necessarily mean the manager that you directly reported to. A loss-prevention officer's manager isn't very high up the chain. I don't know how your company's org chart looks, but I'd bet that not much higher up than you is a district manager or a regional manager who works his ass off.

[gjk5]

Originally Posted by devildog2067

Articulate, mature response.

I don't necessarily mean the manager that you directly reported to. A loss-prevention officer's manager isn't very high up the chain. I don't know how your company's org chart looks, but I'd bet that not much higher up than you is a district manager or a regional manager who works his ass off.

Yes, works his ass off at being the man, at keeping the working man down, at sacrificing people for profits!!!!!!!! Effin management d-bags, the whole place would run better without them. This whole damn place is all about ME, not some stupid shareholder or owner!

[DanaT]

Originally Posted by Slug71

Because we've always parked back there. Pissed off shoplifters can't wait for us outside/see what we drive. Employees don't know when we come or go.
Management has failed to tell us security issues in the past and we often have transients/bums trying to steal cans from the back and then return them for $$.
Thats why I asked.

She wanted my left out of the investigation and my partner to go up. Never happened before and he was off the next day. Since we are a team, I would have liked to be briefed too.

I left out the other incident since that happened back in March and I alread mentioned it. And it was a lie. Shouldn't be held against me.

Go back and read what I said about drama and using too much management time. Think about it. Then read this your reply and see how it fits into what i said.




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[Devans0]

I worked at a company that required ten years to get a partial vesting for retirement. It wasn't an at will state but it was remarkable how many employees were great employees until 9 1/2 years passed, then suddenly became "problem employees" that were fired.
I was looking for other employment at 9 1/2 years and asked the bosses for glowing recommendations, to help me find a new job. A new job didn't come, but the documentation helped when the hatchet was aimed in my direction.

[Arquebus12]

Originally Posted by Slug71

Me?..

Kat1950

[Bren]

Slug71, reading just a small part of what you've posted - you must be the only person in the world who is surprised you got fired. Getting rid of employees like you is exactly why employers need at will employment. If you are coming to the table with no unique or valuable skills and expecting a pay check, don't be surprised when people expect you to, at least, do your job right. If not, you are easily replaced.

Guess what, it's also to the advantage of good employees - now your space is open for somebody who won't cause problems and break rules, so the employer can get his money's worth.

[Roger1079]

Originally Posted by Slug71

How is it stupid? I raised a legit issue. I was wronged and looking for opinion.
Yes it is a privilege and not a right. That doesn't mean employers should treat there employees that way. The working class spend more time at work than at home. The economy is also driven by us.

Would you rather have to deal with a union than have give a warning before terminating someone? I would rather have that and do away with unions.

You FEEL you were wronged. I bet your management will beg to differ with your opinion. Managers normally do not take kindly to employees circumventing the chain of command. If you had a legitimate reason for going above your managers head you would likely still have your job. And before you say anything, I AM speaking from personal experience.

The parking thing can also be seen as insubordination and was possibly just the icing on the cake.

[Hef]

Originally Posted by devildog2067

Since when is "should" the same as "let's make a law requiring people to behave a certain way"?



I guarantee that your manager works more hours than you do. The idea of a "working class" is nothing but classist crap.

I worked from 6am Friday to 1am Saturday last week. Yes, I work behind a desk primarily. But I still average 70 hours. I don't even get overtime. When's the last time you worked a 70 hour week?



The economy is driven by both capital and labor. To say it's driven by "us" is stupid. Neither can exist without the other.



And when you run a business, you can make that choice. You don't get to try and legislate that choice onto others.

I work 12 hours a day, Monday through Friday, Saturday mornings, Sunday afternoons, and some nights too. No employee even comes close to putting in my hours.

[DanaT]

Originally Posted by Slug71

She wanted my left out of the investigation and my partner to go up. Never happened before and he was off the next day. Since we are a team, I would have liked to be briefed too.

Let me ask a simple question. Since you were in LP you probably had access to security video of the parking lot. Did you take a pro-active approach and help management out by retrieving video of the suspected sex incident in the parking lot to see if it even happened? Were you proactive in helping management?

[certifiedfunds]

Originally Posted by Slug71

The working class spend more time at work than at home. The economy is also driven by us.

Who is this "working class"?

The economy is driven by small businessmen and women taking a risk by pledging their assets to start a business. Folks like you just show up after the house is built.

[Brucev]

Originally Posted by Hef

I work 12 hours a day, Monday through Friday, Saturday mornings, Sunday afternoons, and some nights too. No employee even comes close to putting in my hours.

You work for yourself. You don't like the hours, etc., tell yourself your quitting. Go to work somewhere else. You can even tell yourself what you demand in order for you to keep working for yourself. Why... you can ultimately cave in and give yourself a raise, better working conditions, etc. It's all up to you.

Those who are employed by a company have every right to act in their own best interest and to do so even if it gets up the nose of the employer. Those who are employed by a company have every right to use the legislative process to force employers to swallow work place rules and regulations that advantage the employee... even if it gives the employer a sore throat. Because employers do exactly the same thing. They do their best to buy legislators who will give them what they want... unrestrained power to do as they please in dealing with employees.

[Brucev]

Originally Posted by Devans0

I worked at a company that required ten years to get a partial vesting for retirement. It wasn't an at will state but it was remarkable how many employees were great employees until 9 1/2 years passed, then suddenly became "problem employees" that were fired.
I was looking for other employment at 9 1/2 years and asked the bosses for glowing recommendations, to help me find a new job. A new job didn't come, but the documentation helped when the hatchet was aimed in my direction.

You must not say such things. It upsets people who want to pretend that employers are only looking for quality employees. You must not say such things. Allow those folks to cling to their illusions. The truth is to inconvenient.

[certifiedfunds]

Originally Posted by Brucev

You work for yourself. You don't like the hours, etc., tell yourself your quitting. Go to work somewhere else. You can even tell yourself what you demand in order for you to keep working for yourself. Why... you can ultimately cave in and give yourself a raise, better working conditions, etc. It's all up to you.

Those who are employed by a company have every right to act in their own best interest and to do so even if it gets up the nose of the employer. Those who are employed by a company have every right to use the legislative process to force employers to swallow work place rules and regulations that advantage the employee... even if it gives the employer a sore throat. Because employers do exactly the same thing. They do their best to buy legislators who will give them what they want... unrestrained power to do as they please in dealing with employees.

And the company should have every right to fire them at any time for any reason.

[engineer151515]

Originally Posted by Brucev

You must not say such things. It upsets people who want to pretend that employers are only looking for quality employees. You must not say such things. Allow those folks to cling to their illusions. The truth is to inconvenient.

Here's a truth.

Without a contract, you are not entitled to a job.

There ya go.

[tehan2]

the only thing your employer "owes" you is payment for the work you've done

[Jon_R]

Originally Posted by Devans0

I worked at a company that required ten years to get a partial vesting for retirement. It wasn't an at will state but it was remarkable how many employees were great employees until 9 1/2 years passed, then suddenly became "problem employees" that were fired.
I was looking for other employment at 9 1/2 years and asked the bosses for glowing recommendations, to help me find a new job. A new job didn't come, but the documentation helped when the hatchet was aimed in my direction.

If this is known as a common business practice of this company why do any good employees stay? If the employee has enough value take it to somewhere else.

I always keep my eye's open for a better opportunity for me and my family. My loyalty is to my family. My employer pays me for the work I perform and value I bring to them. They need something done and I do it because they pay me to do it. When they no longer need it or think they would be better off with someone else they will stop paying me and I will stop doing it.

[Roger1079]

Originally Posted by Brucev

You work for yourself. You don't like the hours, etc., tell yourself your quitting. Go to work somewhere else. You can even tell yourself what you demand in order for you to keep working for yourself. Why... you can ultimately cave in and give yourself a raise, better working conditions, etc. It's all up to you.

Those who are employed by a company have every right to act in their own best interest and to do so even if it gets up the nose of the employer. Those who are employed by a company have every right to use the legislative process to force employers to swallow work place rules and regulations that advantage the employee... even if it gives the employer a sore throat. Because employers do exactly the same thing. They do their best to buy legislators who will give them what they want... unrestrained power to do as they please in dealing with employees.

Where the heck does this entitlement mindset so many people seem to have come from?

Do you know what my employer owes me? A paycheck for doing my job weekly to the best of my ability, vacation and sick time as per company guidlines, and the subsidized insurance package that was a condition of my employment that I pay for weekly out of my check. Beyond that, my employer OWES ME NOTHING. My employment is a PRIVELEDGE and certainly not a RIGHT, and I can tell you this with certainty: If I ever fail to accomplish my job to their satisfaction and I fail to continue to be an asset to my employer, they can and will let me go maybe with notice, most likely without. They are a business, not a charity. Only the government is in the business of giving lazy and useless people money they didn't earn.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by engineer151515

Here's a truth.

Without a contract, you are not entitled to a job.

There ya go.

And therein lies a point to be made...


Those who believe that an employer has some obligation to them beyond paying for work performed, plus any vacation time, medical insurance, or other benefits agreed upon at time of hire:

You always have the option of negotiating a formal contract with the employer up front stating exactly what is expected by both parties.

My employment is done this way for each project I work.
Has been for almost 30 years now. Works well for me.
Usually, the contract states that the arrangement can be ended at any time by either party for any reason.

In this way, I know up front the terms and conditions of my employment. I know up front that if I am rendering the value my employer needs then I have "a job" (for the duration at least) and I will be paid for the work I've performed.

If at any time my employer feels that I am not providing them with the value they expected, they will end the agreement and find someone who can give them what they want.
And yes, it has happened that way, more than once.


This has worked well for me my entire working life, with no angst over whether we really, truly love each other or whether they will respect me in the morning.

[Hef]

Originally Posted by Brucev

You work for yourself. You don't like the hours, etc., tell yourself your quitting. Go to work somewhere else. You can even tell yourself what you demand in order for you to keep working for yourself. Why... you can ultimately cave in and give yourself a raise, better working conditions, etc. It's all up to you.

Those who are employed by a company have every right to act in their own best interest and to do so even if it gets up the nose of the employer. Those who are employed by a company have every right to use the legislative process to force employers to swallow work place rules and regulations that advantage the employee... even if it gives the employer a sore throat. Because employers do exactly the same thing. They do their best to buy legislators who will give them what they want... unrestrained power to do as they please in dealing with employees.

Did you even read what I was responding to before you posted your ridiculous and irrelevant "demand a raise from yourself" nonsense? My post was to add to a response to the statement, "the working class spend more time at work than at home".

[Brucev]

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

And the company should have every right to fire them at any time for any reason.

"Should..." is you opinion only. Very happily, what what a company is permitted to do, and what it is prohibited from doing is entirely determined law. And... if 11/6 is any indicator, employers are in for a bumpy ride. Tough. They earned it. They have every right to it. And nobody is going to take it away from them. Fasten your seatbelts.

[Brucev]

Originally Posted by Roger1079

Where the heck does this entitlement mindset so many people seem to have come from?

Do you know what my employer owes me? A paycheck for doing my job weekly to the best of my ability, vacation and sick time as per company guidlines, and the subsidized insurance package that was a condition of my employment that I pay for weekly out of my check. Beyond that, my employer OWES ME NOTHING. My employment is a PRIVELEDGE and certainly not a RIGHT, and I can tell you this with certainty: If I ever fail to accomplish my job to their satisfaction and I fail to continue to be an asset to my employer, they can and will let me go maybe with notice, most likely without. They are a business, not a charity. Only the government is in the business of giving lazy and useless people money they didn't earn.

The above is of course the rambling of one who is not looking at a pink slip... who has not been lied to by his employer. Or, it reflects the blind rote repetition of a mythology to which one clings in the face of reality.

As to the govt., it routinely employes all sorts of people, some who earn their pay and some of them who are just simply lazy people sucking on the fed. tit. You find them in all sorts of places... administration, regulation, military, law enforcement, etc. They're everywhere! They're everywhere!

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Brucev

"Should..." is you opinion only. Very happily, what what a company is permitted to do, and what it is prohibited from doing is entirely determined law. And... if 11/6 is any indicator, employers are in for a bumpy ride. Tough. They earned it. They have every right to it. And nobody is going to take it away from them. Fasten your seatbelts.

And how would you expect "employers in for a bumpy ride" to benefit present or potential employees?

[Roger1079]

Originally Posted by Brucev

"Should..." is you opinion only. Very happily, what what a company is permitted to do, and what it is prohibited from doing is entirely determined law. And... if 11/6 is any indicator, employers are in for a bumpy ride. Tough. They earned it. They have every right to it. And nobody is going to take it away from them. Fasten your seatbelts.

So say you own a business, which judging by the demeanor of your posts, I am sure you don't. You sound more like a disgruntled ex-employee than anything else.

That aside, Mr. Employer, say you have a useless employee that is lazy and causes problems. You honestly feel that you should not have the right to fire this employee outright with no notice or reason given? You should be forced to keep the useless rather than freeing up the space for someone worthy of the opportunity you have to offer?

[Roger1079]

Originally Posted by Atlas

And how would you expect "employers in for a bumpy ride" to benefit present or potential employees?

I have a feeling this post will either get no response from Brucev or something completely illogical and ridiculous that supports his skewed perception of employee entitlement.

[kat1950]

Originally Posted by HarlDane

Are you saying that you fire employees for making suggestions you don't agree with?

Like I said from day 1 they know me, including my attitude towards their responsibilities for their job and the policies of MY company, so we do not have people making suggestions that they know is against my policy, we have a very tight team all on the same wave length and working together.

Oh by the way it took many years for me to achieve this goal, and only possible after firing all the whiners, dissidents, including all the people with inferiority complexes against authority and the wealth that accompanies it.