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Old 11-10-2012, 23:11   #26
mjkeat
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LA 357, what you mention is just part of the equation. CS, QC, has to be figured in. As we all know anyone can assemble an AR though assembling it correctly can be a task. How about weight times? Getting the product in a timely manner is important.
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:30   #27
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LA 357, what you mention is just part of the equation. CS, QC, has to be figured in. As we all know anyone can assemble an AR though assembling it correctly can be a task. How about weight times? Getting the product in a timely manner is important.
But if I am shelling out 5 bills for a Delton or DPMS complete upper why not just spend 100 more dollars and get a standard BCM upper with a BCM bolt carrier group?

Your statement is irrelevant. The BCM upper is not 100 dollars more than a Del-Ton. It is $220 more. The Del-Ton is not "5 bills." Instead of bringing up (for lack of a better description) anomalies that do not address my comments that you quote, try disputing what I say directly. Bringing up extraneous and trivial matter that helps promote your agenda, while side tracking the posts you quote, really makes you seem desperate for attention and frankly speaking, in bad taste.
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:40   #28
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Last edited by bmoore; 11-10-2012 at 23:48..
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:50   #29
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http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M...-urg-m4-16.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-B...0auto%20mp.htm


439+160= 599 That is a complete upper. factor in 15 or 20 dollars for shipping. I am not going to argue how BCM is a better value than Delton, just not going to do it. Its like telling my son he can't have cookies for dinner over and over. You are correct LA357SIG, Delton is the same as BCM, hundreds of thousands of AR shooters over paid drastically.
No. A barreled upper and bolt carrier is not a complete upper. Nor does $599 equal "5 bills." You still lack a charging handle and handguards. You claim you are not arguing how BCM is a better value than Del-Ton, but your sarcastic accusation that I am means what? "Not praising Del-Ton, but not seeing the value/money." Seems to suggest that I am not implying that they are equal. $220 seems a lot of money for barrel steel, individual MPT/HP testing and double heat shield handguards.
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:51   #30
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Originally Posted by LA_357SIG View Post
Your statement is irrelevant. The BCM upper is not 100 dollars more than a Del-Ton. It is $220 more. The Del-Ton is not "5 bills." Instead of bringing up (for lack of a better description) anomalies that do not address my comments that you quote, try disputing what I say directly. Bringing up extraneous and trivial matter that helps promote your agenda, while side tracking the posts you quote, really makes you seem desperate for attention and frankly speaking, in bad taste.
You stated that all you get is individual testing and better steel (your post at 00:01). I stated that there is much more to it than those two items alone. I then listed the additional items the extra $ includes. It is very relevant.

My only agenda is to help inform.

Last edited by mjkeat; 11-10-2012 at 23:57..
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:07   #31
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You stated that all you get is individual testing and better steel (your post at 00:01). I stated that there is much more to it than those two items alone. I then listed the additional items the extra $ includes. It is very relevant.

My only agenda is to help inform.
Wait. So comparing prices goes beyond items that have a stock number? Give me a break.
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:17   #32
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Wait. So comparing prices goes beyond items that have a stock number? Give me a break.
So QC and CS as well as shipping time mean? How about piece of mind? Do those things not require more hands on deck thus raising overhead?
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:22   #33
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Originally Posted by LA_357SIG View Post
No. A barreled upper and bolt carrier is not a complete upper. Nor does $599 equal "5 bills." You still lack a charging handle and handguards. You claim you are not arguing how BCM is a better value than Del-Ton, but your sarcastic accusation that I am means what? "Not praising Del-Ton, but not seeing the value/money." Seems to suggest that I am not implying that they are equal. $220 seems a lot of money for barrel steel, individual MPT/HP testing and double heat shield handguards.
220 dollars seems like very little to me for Quality control, customer service and a proven track record but that is just me. My friends bought rifle kits for around 500 if I remember correctly, so the complete uppers I am assuming will be cheaper. I will stick with your 220 dollar difference, which is trivial to me on something I will have my lifetime and hopefully my sons.

I can save 220 bucks somewhere else in life. All 3 of my coworkers waited close to 3 months when they ordered their kits, that's not a value in my mind. There is a lot more to value than what their websites spec sheet says. Is there even 1 upper on their website that is in stock?
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:30   #34
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Pete,

While the jerkoffs are arguing, let me submit for your consideration....

Your stated purpose for your first upper is plinking and range fun. An upper doesn't have any moving parts. Exactly what do you think is going to be significant about an upper? Twist and the rails and handguards. For your first one, get what appeals to you. Then on your next one, you can be more "serious" if it isn't as accurate as you want.

If you do not live in N Dallas, and don't see the combat that is common in N Dallas, do you really need to spend $1k or more on an upper? I say no. For "range fun and plinking"....... get what you like. The thing you should be focusing on is carbine, middy, or 20", and possibly chrome lined receiver and barrel. I once read that "Brand A" doesn't have a chrome lined barrel, and when I looked at mine, I found that to be a lie. Brand isn't going to be that critical for a plinker and range rifle. And hey, at some point in the future, if it isn't as accurate as you want, you can always buy another barrel.

Get that first one done, run it a while, then go from there. You might find there are aspects you want to address on the next lower. Longer barrel, different twist, better accuracy, different rails, whatever.

If you read these forums, you know there are members who make it their personal goal to influence your decision to their favorite brand, or away from what they don't like. Not because they want to help you, but because they have a desperate need for validation.

Get what you like, at a price you are comfortable with, and have fun. I would be willing to bet you will be happy. You'll drive yourself crazy if you listen to the stupid crap the brand whores are spewing. Look at the first rifle\build as a learning experience (that will still work), and worst case, the second is a mulligan.

Just have fun with it.
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I would take a book learner over the assumption making that runs rampid on this forum.
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:30   #35
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Lots of pissing going on in this thread
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:32   #36
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Lots of pissing going on in this thread
In EVERY thread. And it is usually the same morons participating.
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I would take a book learner over the assumption making that runs rampid on this forum.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rampid
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:34   #37
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220 dollars seems like very little to me for Quality control, customer service and a proven track record but that is just me. My friends bought rifle kits for around 500 if I remember correctly, so the complete uppers I am assuming will be cheaper. I will stick with your 220 dollar difference, which is trivial to me on something I will have my lifetime and hopefully my sons.

I can save 220 bucks somewhere else in life. All 3 of my coworkers waited close to 3 months when they ordered their kits, that's not a value in my mind. There is a lot more to value than what their websites spec sheet says. Is there even 1 upper on their website that is in stock?
In the words of a wise man, "Give me a break." Are you serious!? There's value to be added for things that don't require a serial/part/model/stock#?
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:46   #38
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In EVERY thread. And it is usually the same morons participating.
You're going to call names after giving the advice in your earlier post?

$1000 upper? Who's recommending a $1k upper?

Purchase a cheap upper now then another later on? Why? So he ends up spending much more in the long run? Makes a lot of sense for a guy on a budget.

Brand whores? Have you ever thought that people recommend brands on the bases of quality?

"You might find there are aspects you want to address on the next lower. Longer barrel, different twist, better accuracy, different rails, whatever." Since when do lowers have barrels and rails?

Yeah, lets call others names and question their advice.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:29   #39
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I should have proofread these before hitting [Submit]

The BCM upper configured as close as Del-Ton offered (16" carbine, Chrome Lined 1/7 twist, Charging Handle, BCG, and Handguards) was $645 not $680. So $185 was the difference.

Del-Ton upper still isn't "5 bills" and $185 is still not "$100" more. No matter how you scrutinize it with extraneous babble, it still holds true.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:32   #40
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Originally Posted by Sporaticus View Post
Pete,

While the jerkoffs are arguing, let me submit for your consideration....

Your stated purpose for your first upper is plinking and range fun. An upper doesn't have any moving parts. Exactly what do you think is going to be significant about an upper? Twist and the rails and handguards. For your first one, get what appeals to you. Then on your next one, you can be more "serious" if it isn't as accurate as you want.

If you do not live in N Dallas, and don't see the combat that is common in N Dallas, do you really need to spend $1k or more on an upper? I say no. For "range fun and plinking"....... get what you like. The thing you should be focusing on is carbine, middy, or 20", and possibly chrome lined receiver and barrel. I once read that "Brand A" doesn't have a chrome lined barrel, and when I looked at mine, I found that to be a lie. Brand isn't going to be that critical for a plinker and range rifle. And hey, at some point in the future, if it isn't as accurate as you want, you can always buy another barrel.

Get that first one done, run it a while, then go from there. You might find there are aspects you want to address on the next lower. Longer barrel, different twist, better accuracy, different rails, whatever.

If you read these forums, you know there are members who make it their personal goal to influence your decision to their favorite brand, or away from what they don't like. Not because they want to help you, but because they have a desperate need for validation.

Get what you like, at a price you are comfortable with, and have fun. I would be willing to bet you will be happy. You'll drive yourself crazy if you listen to the stupid crap the brand whores are spewing. Look at the first rifle\build as a learning experience (that will still work), and worst case, the second is a mulligan.

Just have fun with it.

Thanks forum hero. Some of us "submitted" some advice to him a lot earlier in the thread. Jesse Jackson called, he wants his coin phrase "submit to you" back. People with little smarts who are trying to sound smart have been using that one for decades.

OP- Buy whatever you want. My original advice was in post #17, before I the finger pointing started. Figure 200 bucks more for the BCM. Buy what you think will work for you, giving advice on this forum is getting hard to do.
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Last edited by bmoore; 11-11-2012 at 01:40..
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:10   #41
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Anyone heard of DSA Arms ? They're selling barreled uppers pretty good price, without the Bolt, BCG or Charging handle. Should I just got with Palmetto if I'm going this route ?
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:29   #42
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$185, In most cases that's not even 500 rounds of ammunition. It's also most of our monthly lunch budget for some POS fast food place. $185 is nothing when compared to the added value and piece of mind.

You may get a good brand A (many do) but you may not. There are brands out there where not getting a 100% GTG product is basically unheard of.

Get what you ultimately want. Just know for the price some McDonalds you can make a big leap in quality in something that you can enjoy for many many years. McD's usually only sticks around for an hour or 2, lol. Enjoy.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:49   #43
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No problem.
Black Rifle Forum
That looks pretty badass! Done tradin' jabs. Handshake?
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Old 11-11-2012, 19:12   #44
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Originally Posted by Pete7072 View Post
Anyone heard of DSA Arms ? They're selling barreled uppers pretty good price, without the Bolt, BCG or Charging handle. Should I just got with Palmetto if I'm going this route ?
I have... same basic quality as Del-Ton. I currently own a Del-Ton; I also own a Palmetto. I also own several more expensive rifles. I have had no issues with the Del-Ton OR the Palmetto. They're neither one sub-MOA rifles, but they're not bad. I don't think you'd go particular "wrong" with any of the above.

I'm with a couple of the earlier posters - unless this is the last upper you're ever going to buy (it's not), buy one of the ones above and shoot the hell out of it.

At SOME POINT, if you're serious about building your lower the way you want, you WILL want a nicer, better quality, more accurate upper. How do I know this? Experience... My first black rifle was a CMMG $499 rifle from back around 2005. I put about 2,500 rounds through it, then sold it to my brother (who still shoots it, though not often).

One caveat - my PERSONAL experience with DPMS has been mixed. I've had two panthers; the first was fine, but nothing special. The second would NOT shoot better than 3 MOA. After returning it to DPMS TWICE, they told me that was as accurate as the rifle would get (even though my older one was more accurate than that). With CS like that, I swore to avoid them in the future.
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