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Old 11-09-2012, 22:32   #76
TK-421
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Originally Posted by HollowHead View Post
Open carry has elevated to the likes of flying the Confederate battle flag. Legally protected, Constitutionally guaranteed and even worshipped in some parts but for the love of christ's sake...give it at least an ounce of thought where the hell you do it and how you behave when doing so. HH
Fixed it for you.

And yes, I agree, think first before you grab your open carry holster. It's generally not a good idea to do it, unless you know the area, and you know that the people who will you see are comfortable seeing a firearm on your belt. Most people get uncomfortable around guns, it's just the way it is. Don't like it? Don't piss and moan when you have to talk to the cops multiple times because they complain that you're openly carrying.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:43   #77
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Originally Posted by NickC50310 View Post
Open carry is NOT legal within city limits which obviously this was within city limits.
Iowa has state preemption, right?

The AG has opined that local jurisdictions may restrict carry in government owned/controlled buildings under their home rule power, right?

Yet, Des Moines has an ordinance totally banning open carry within its city limits?
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:53   #78
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Originally Posted by Wyoming View Post
If a police officer asked me for my ID I would show him/her my driver's license even if I wasn't driving at the time.

Maybe it was the way I was raised but it doesn't seem like a good idea to piss people off especially a person with a gun and a big stick.
So any person with a gun and a big stick would intimidate you? Why am I not shocked America is where it is?

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Police have a tough enough job to do. Ever LE officer I ever meet was a person just trying to provide for their family and just want to live long enough to retire. When that police officer working security for Walmart he wasn't doing it for fun. He was probably doing it because he needed to earn extra money. Show him your permit. If you think he violated your rights talk to an attorney later. If he was right you save yourself an arrest record and if he was wrong let your attorney handle it.
So would you allow them to come to your house and search it without a warrant? Same thing isn't it? At least it is to me. You've got nothing to hide, so be a good little citizen and let them have their way and they'll leave you alone sooner.

Reasonable suspicion? A gun, that is clearly visible, is reasonable suspicion???

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

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Old 11-10-2012, 06:55   #79
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Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
Fixed it for you.

And yes, I agree, think first before you grab your open carry holster. It's generally not a good idea to do it, unless you know the area, and you know that the people who will you see are comfortable seeing a firearm on your belt. Most people get uncomfortable around guns, it's just the way it is. Don't like it? Don't piss and moan when you have to talk to the cops multiple times because they complain that you're openly carrying.
And sadly, this is why I will never live in my state of birth, it's people like you with this attitude. Sadly, TX has lost it's will to remain a Republic.

Were you raised in TX or a transplant???

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:01   #80
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FWIW: there ARE people who CAN tell you what to do.
There ARE people who CAN make you do things you don't want to.

Have a great emotionally balanced lawful respectful day.

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:02   #81
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Iowa has state preemption, right?

The AG has opined that local jurisdictions may restrict carry in government owned/controlled buildings under their home rule power, right?

Yet, Des Moines has an ordinance totally banning open carry within its city limits?
Sorry for being dumb this morning but what is preemmption?

Second question- yes, I beleive so.

No- open carry is legal statewide. Without a permit- only in unincorporated areas. With a permit- statewide including within city limits.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:05   #82
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Did the LEO prove he was in fact a LEO or just walmart security?

Still, once again, we have yet another activist standing his ground asking for trouble, and he got trouble.
I would say the uniform with badge and gun probably should have given it away.

Just another idiot with a firearm making the rest of us look bad.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:11   #83
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It doesn't specify which uniform he was wearing. Was he wearing a Walmart Security Guard uniform, or a Police Officer uniform? My guess would be a Walmart Security Guard Uniform, because if I saw a guy wearing that uniform, and he didn't announce himself as an off duty cop, I'd tell him to buzz off when he asked to see my permit. But if the cop was wearing his police uniform, then the guy shouldn't be allowed to carry his gun for being so stupid. If a cop in uniform asked to see my permit, I'd show it to him, required by law or not, because I'd consider it polite, presuming I was required to have a permit to open carry.

However, this is exactly the kind of reason why I prefer concealed carry. Because when done properly, the cop would have had 0 idea the guy was armed, and he wouldn't be in his current predicament.
I have never seen an off duty officer on any detail at any institution anywhere where they were not wearing their department issued uniform. It would totally defeat the purpose of the detail which is SHOWING POLICE PRESENCE IN THE BUILDING.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:20   #84
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Jeeez,, I can't believe you guys haven't noticed that every single WM store has security. They're located at every entrance. It's those nasty Greeters. They are actually highly trained assassins in deep, deep, deep, cover, ready to give you a beat down at a moments notice.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:36   #85
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Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
So any person with a gun and a big stick would intimidate you? Why am I not shocked America is where it is?



So would you allow them to come to your house and search it without a warrant? Same thing isn't it? At least it is to me. You've got nothing to hide, so be a good little citizen and let them have their way and they'll leave you alone sooner.

Reasonable suspicion? A gun, that is clearly visible, is reasonable suspicion???

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
So you would rather get arrested and charged than show something to a LEO that has the RIGHT BY LAW to demand it? With "activists" like you around, it is no wonder people who carry are villainized and stereotyped the way we are.

And who the heck said anything about consenting to a search of any kind? It is always the same argument from people like you. If this guy had just furnished what the officer asked for, he would have been on his way in no time. Instead, he has to break the law like an idiot, get arrested, add another charge for resisting, and wait for like minded people to cry about their Constitutional rights. No wonder gun owners rights are going down the drain as fast as they are.

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Old 11-10-2012, 07:38   #86
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Not familiar with Clyde, eh? :D

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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:49   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickC50310 View Post
Sorry for being dumb this morning but what is preemmption?
No local jurisdiction may enact and/or enforce any law contrary to State law.

Okay, first you said...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickC50310 View Post
Open carry is NOT legal within city limits which obviously this was within city limits.
Then you said...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickC50310 View Post
  • No- open carry is legal statewide.
    • Without a permit- only in unincorporated areas.
    • With a permit- statewide including within city limits.
Known fact is, "Alivonta had a permit to purchase firearms and one to carry a gun...," therefore, he could legally open carry, right?
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:43   #88
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...

Have a great emotionally balanced lawful respectful day.

... 2
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:15   #89
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And sadly, this is why I will never live in my state of birth, it's people like you with this attitude. Sadly, TX has lost it's will to remain a Republic.

Were you raised in TX or a transplant???

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
Oh I'm a transplant, I'd shoot myself if I was raised in Texas, way too many moronic republicans here for me to ever be happy, and the weather is too hot for me to want to stay. As soon as I can afford it and I find a better job, I'm gone for somewhere cooler, probably on the east coast.

And what's wrong with the attitude? You think it's wrong of me to hand over my ID and be done in two minutes, rather than try and demand every single "right" and ***** with the cop about every little thing he does? Gee, I figure that's the quickest way to get my ass thrown in jail, and I'm not the kind of moron who would spend a night in jail to try and make a point to the cop. You know why? Because doing so would serve ZERO purpose, none what so ever. The cop would think you're just another gun toting moron, would not have any impression made, and he'd go on about his duties, remembering you only as a funny story he can use to share a laugh with his buddies.

I'd rather just be courteous and polite, hand over my ID and then walk away when he is done with me a short time later. Check out all the videos on youtube of guys who are openly carrying and get stopped by police and they ***** up and down the block about the cop stopping them. I bet there isn't one of those videos where the encounter lasted less than 10 minutes, even if it was edited to make it seem like it took less time. That's not only 10 minutes of your time you're wasting, but 10 minutes of the cops time as well. Where as, if you're polite and courteous, instead of a ******, then I bet the cop would be gone in five minutes, rather than ten or even twenty.

I'm so sorry I respect my time more than you do and want any encounter with the police to be as short as possible. I don't break the law, I don't have any warrants, I don't hate the police, I have nothing to hide. If they want to spend a few minutes talking to me, I'll let them. If they want my ID, I'll gladly hand it over. I have no reason to be afraid or be a dick, I have nothing to hide.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:24   #90
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Quote:
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Oh I'm a transplant, I'd shoot myself if I was raised in Texas, way too many moronic republicans here for me to ever be happy, and the weather is too hot for me to want to stay. As soon as I can afford it and I find a better job, I'm gone for somewhere cooler, probably on the east coast.

And what's wrong with the attitude? You think it's wrong of me to hand over my ID and be done in two minutes, rather than try and demand every single "right" and ***** with the cop about every little thing he does? Gee, I figure that's the quickest way to get my ass thrown in jail, and I'm not the kind of moron who would spend a night in jail to try and make a point to the cop. You know why? Because doing so would serve ZERO purpose, none what so ever. The cop would think you're just another gun toting moron, would not have any impression made, and he'd go on about his duties, remembering you only as a funny story he can use to share a laugh with his buddies.

I'd rather just be courteous and polite, hand over my ID and then walk away when he is done with me a short time later. Check out all the videos on youtube of guys who are openly carrying and get stopped by police and they ***** up and down the block about the cop stopping them. I bet there isn't one of those videos where the encounter lasted less than 10 minutes, even if it was edited to make it seem like it took less time. That's not only 10 minutes of your time you're wasting, but 10 minutes of the cops time as well. Where as, if you're polite and courteous, instead of a ******, then I bet the cop would be gone in five minutes, rather than ten or even twenty.

I'm so sorry I respect my time more than you do and want any encounter with the police to be as short as possible. I don't break the law, I don't have any warrants, I don't hate the police, I have nothing to hide. If they want to spend a few minutes talking to me, I'll let them. If they want my ID, I'll gladly hand it over. I have no reason to be afraid or be a dick, I have nothing to hide.
Relax. You're trying to reason with a guy who OCs an AR pistol at Denny's... HH
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:29   #91
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Not every police encounter bolsters Constitutional rights or sets a precedent.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:31   #92
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Relax. You're trying to reason with a guy who OCs an AR pistol at Denny's... HH
I'll have to keep that in mind, thanks.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:54   #93
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WalMart has a right to ban firearms from it's property , forbid open carry , or require the person to have a permit or whatever the hell else they feel like . It's private property. Forget all of the arguments about state or local law . If an authorized agent of that company asks you to show your permit , you either comply or shop elsewhere .
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Old 11-10-2012, 13:40   #94
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WalMart has a right to ban firearms from it's property , forbid open carry , or require the person to have a permit or whatever the hell else they feel like . It's private property. Forget all of the arguments about state or local law . If an authorized agent of that company asks you to show your permit , you either comply or shop elsewhere .
Walmart's corporate policy is to adhere to the laws of the state where the store is located, so, yeah, applicable laws, state and local, are in play.
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Old 11-10-2012, 13:41   #95
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Not every police encounter bolsters Constitutional rights or sets a precedent.
True...
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Old 11-10-2012, 13:52   #96
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WalMart has a right to ban firearms from it's property , forbid open carry , or require the person to have a permit or whatever the hell else they feel like . It's private property. Forget all of the arguments about state or local law . If an authorized agent of that company asks you to show your permit , you either comply or shop elsewhere .
If an authorized agent of that company asks you to show your permit , you either comply or shop elsewhere.

Uh, one is under no legal obligation to follow a property owner's request, save one - leave.
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Old 11-10-2012, 14:25   #97
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Open carry is NOT legal within city limits which obviously this was within city limits.
Well that's what I meant...open carry is legal here statewide, city limits or not. It is also legal with no permit required.

With that said, nobody has answered my question yet: Since he was open carrying (weapon NOT concealed), why was a CHL permit even requested? Unless Iowa is one of those retarded states where you have to have permit to even open carry...then of course, you're not a true open-carry state to begin with.



Quote:
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In Iowa the permit to purchase IS the background check. So you guys in your super duper ultra gun friendly states get to do background checks EVERY time you purchase a firearm. We do one once a year or once every five years if we have a CHL. This allows us to walk in the store, plop down our cash, fill out the 4473, and walk out the door no questions asked. To me it looks like we have a more effective and convenient system!
Permit or not, I can walk in and leave with multiple handguns or rifles in about 10 minutes. I really don't see how it could be any faster.



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If this guy had just furnished what the officer asked for, he would have been on his way in no time.
You're assuming. Since some in this thread that even live there can't get their story straight on open carry, and when and where you can do it, not wonder the guy got arrested...the LEO in question probably didn't even know wtf to do.

Last edited by tantrix; 11-10-2012 at 14:38..
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Old 11-10-2012, 14:54   #98
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You're assuming. Since some in this thread that even live there can't get their story straight on open carry, and when and where you can do it, not wonder the guy got arrested...the LEO in question probably didn't even know wtf to do.
And so are you. So because some individuals who live there are shaky about the laws, it must mean that the officer didn't know what he was doing? Seems like a much larger assumption than I made.
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Old 11-10-2012, 14:55   #99
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Not familiar with Clyde, eh? :D

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Haven't had the pleasure until now. Definitely encountered his type on many occasions though.
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:59   #100
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From the minimal research I have done it appears you are required to have a permit to carry whether concealed or not. If that's the case, then the officer was within his right to request to see it per IA law. Same situation in my state.
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