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Old 11-09-2012, 13:11   #101
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Really do appreciate everyones feedback and opinions in this thread.

Think i'm just more disappointed in that I was really looking forward to moving back to the East Coast next year. I hate living where I do. Jobs are scarce and little opportunity for growth/advancement.

This just feels like a HUGE set back for me. I was looking forward to seeing my family next year which I have not seen in 3 years and gone through a ugly divorce in that time......
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Old 11-09-2012, 13:16   #102
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At "will"?



I just wish someone "would".
I believe most strip joints have "at wood" employment...


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Old 11-09-2012, 13:17   #103
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Why can't you move to the east coast and find a job out there?


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Old 11-09-2012, 13:22   #104
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Why can't you move to the east coast and find a job out there?


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Relocation is expensive. According to city-data one should have 6-9 months of living expenses save to do a out of state move. I defs don't have that.
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Old 11-09-2012, 13:23   #105
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I believe most strip joints have "at wood" employment...


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Lol. :D
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:57   #106
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"and despite this economy you can't find good employees." That is total bull****. There are millions of talented, educated, motivated long-term people begging for a decent job,

"On the employee side, you are covered under the "workers compensation" program if the state concludes that the employer terminated you wrongfully or for no reason." Wrong. Worker's compensation only deals with an employee who is hurt on the job.
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Old 11-09-2012, 18:19   #107
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We have "emploment at will" in Texas and it works well here. You can thank the unions if you don't like working in an "at will" state.

I was "downsized" along with 4 others that helped a guy build his company into a $million dollar a year company. Each of us had 13 years invested. We got a severance package and un-employment benefits along with COBRA.

It sucked to be us, but all 5 of us rebuilt our lives elsewhere. I even went to work for his competitor as a paid "consultant" for a while. Really chapped his ass, but employment at will cuts both ways.
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Old 11-09-2012, 18:34   #108
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The better employees thrive under at-will conditions.
this must explain why Texas Child Protective Services (when i was there) had something like a 43% turn over rate and also explain why the average CPS investigator only had 6 months experience. yeh mr & mrs tax payer, you're getting your money's worth... no long term benefits to pay your civil servants and then also having to spend more money to constantly hire and train new workers every couple of months while you're getting terrible services from your govnt.
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Old 11-09-2012, 18:58   #109
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this must explain why Texas Child Protective Services (when i was there) had something like a 43% turn over rate and also explain why the average CPS investigator only had 6 months experience. yeh mr & mrs tax payer, you're getting your money's worth... no long term benefits to pay your civil servants and then also having to spend more money to constantly hire and train new workers every couple of months while you're getting terrible services from your govnt.
This is a management issue, and has nothing to do with at will employment.
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Old 11-09-2012, 19:47   #110
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If I start/buy/run a company with my money, I can certainly hire and fire anyone I want, for any reason or no reason at all. Wouldn't want to have it any other way.

Now, whether that is a smart decision is another question.

Rarely is anyone fired for "no reason at all" or even "no warning at all". You might not know the reason, or caught the warning, and again, that is mgmt and the company's fault for not have the correct evaluation/feedback polices.
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Old 11-09-2012, 19:51   #111
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What few people realize is that "at will" has its limitations.
'At Will' can also mean I have no work for you....
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Old 11-09-2012, 22:52   #112
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"and despite this economy you can't find good employees." That is total bull****. There are millions of talented, educated, motivated long-term people begging for a decent job,
There is no question that there are many motivated, qualified people looking for work: but there are a LOT of incompetent and unmotivated people applying for jobs also.

My experience and the experience of my friends and collegues in other companies is that we are still having a hard time finding good employees.

It is a very serious and frustrating problem.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:09   #113
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An employer is not going to spend the resources on hiring you to just up and fire you for no reason.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:11   #114
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There is no question that there are many motivated, qualified people looking for work: but there are a LOT of incompetent and unmotivated people applying for jobs also.

My experience and the experience of my friends and collegues in other companies is that we are still having a hard time finding good employees.

It is a very serious and frustrating problem.
All those crappy resumes makes it so much more important to tailor your own to match what the employer wants =\ big pita for me right now looking for work.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:44   #115
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At will = Kiss butt to get ahead or keep your job.

Even if you do an outstanding job but your boss doesn't care for your: politics, religion, opinions, appearance, etc..., you're gone. Yes, it may be illegal in some regards, but all that needs to be done is some bogus kind of excuse and then it's up to you to try to prove it.

Great way to live when you have standards, go along to get along. I've seen some real shady politics and backstabbing over my career and I've seen some very good people that were targets of personal vendettas saved by civil service and the union.

Nothing in life is perfect, but having some recourse because your boss woke up in a bad mood and didn't like a comment you made and wants you gone is very worthwhile.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:06   #116
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Before I go to work for a company I research them thoroughly.

In a situation like that I would be negotiating a signing bonus, guarantee or relo package.

Right now the major oil companies are offering $50,000 sign on bonus for a chemE or petroleum engineer with a 3.5 or better. That or they'll zero out your student loans. That easily covers a 12 month lease.
Yupp.

When engineering is in demand, it's hot.

When not, I've seen graduating classes of 25 engineers where only three found jobs. (Two co-ops and the top GPA).

In the past three years, oil and gas has been hot. Big oil and associated petrochemical are willing to pay for talent because there is a gap where poor market performance did not produce many graduating Chemical Engineers. There is a very distinct manpower gap in available talent in the 35 to 50 year age group and it looks like large corps are trying to reload for the next couple decades. The older engineers are retiring and the numbers of experienced engineers to teach the newbies are dwindling quickly.


<<<< been "at will" my whole career. I've been cut loose with a plant closing. Not a good feeling - you start to feel like its personal. But it's not. Now I have a position much better than the one I lost, so I guess it worked out in the long haul. I hope it does for the OP too.

<<<< have relocated across country and stayed with family while hunting a new job. Took a while, but it worked.
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Old 11-10-2012, 14:41   #117
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At will = Kiss butt to get ahead or keep your job.

Even if you do an outstanding job but your boss doesn't care for your: politics, religion, opinions, appearance, etc..., you're gone. Yes, it may be illegal in some regards, but all that needs to be done is some bogus kind of excuse and then it's up to you to try to prove it.

Great way to live when you have standards, go along to get along. I've seen some real shady politics and backstabbing over my career and I've seen some very good people that were targets of personal vendettas saved by civil service and the union.

Nothing in life is perfect, but having some recourse because your boss woke up in a bad mood and didn't like a comment you made and wants you gone is very worthwhile.
Thats pretty much how things seem to me at the moment.
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Old 11-10-2012, 14:43   #118
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An employer is not going to spend the resources on hiring you to just up and fire you for no reason.
Happened to me. What ever reason they do have is likely not true or in twisted form.
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Old 11-10-2012, 14:55   #119
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Yupp.

When engineering is in demand, it's hot.

When not, I've seen graduating classes of 25 engineers where only three found jobs. (Two co-ops and the top GPA).

In the past three years, oil and gas has been hot. Big oil and associated petrochemical are willing to pay for talent because there is a gap where poor market performance did not produce many graduating Chemical Engineers. There is a very distinct manpower gap in available talent in the 35 to 50 year age group and it looks like large corps are trying to reload for the next couple decades. The older engineers are retiring and the numbers of experienced engineers to teach the newbies are dwindling quickly.


<<<< been "at will" my whole career. I've been cut loose with a plant closing. Not a good feeling - you start to feel like its personal. But it's not. Now I have a position much better than the one I lost, so I guess it worked out in the long haul. I hope it does for the OP too.

<<<< have relocated across country and stayed with family while hunting a new job. Took a while, but it worked.
Oil and gas has been hot for a while.

Petrobras is hiring a lot of talent away too (with Obama money).

One of the biggest risks to the oil companies is aging talent. If young smart people today aren't looking at it as a career opportunity they're foolish.
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Old 11-10-2012, 15:10   #120
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The limitations to at-will employment termination are usually found in various federal laws on discrimination on a prohibited basis such as race, gender, national origin, and disability to name a few.

Absent that you can be terminated for good reason, bad reason or no reason.

Nothing wrong with "at will"..employers want and need good employees although those needs can and do change. Just remember you own your CAREER and the company owns the JOB. Stay current on skills, save money and meet or exceed your employers performance expectations and you'll be fine.
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Old 11-10-2012, 15:27   #121
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but employment at will cuts both ways.
That is something most employees don't understand.

I just landed a great job with a great company that goes out of their way to hire the best people they can find and then do everything they can to keep them there. I went through four interviews and based on the questions and comments they made to me during that process, one of their main concerns was that I would leave in 5-10 years with all of the very valuable experience and knowledge they invested in me. They obviously didn't come out and say it, but it was very apparent to me from the beginning and I have no doubt that I landed the job because I was able to best convince them that I was there for the long term.
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Old 11-10-2012, 16:34   #122
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Originally Posted by Cali-Glock View Post
There is no question that there are many motivated, qualified people looking for work: but there are a LOT of incompetent and unmotivated people applying for jobs also.

My experience and the experience of my friends and collegues in other companies is that we are still having a hard time finding good employees.

It is a very serious and frustrating problem.
It's amazing the hiring or lack thereof we have had the last three years.

Ours is hard because of the demands we place on people you do not find in other emloyment.
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Old 11-10-2012, 18:11   #123
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Think like an employer - using your own cash to run a business.

Would be more or less willing to try and expand your business & hire an additional employee?

If - once you hired a person you had to keep them forever - plus provide them health care, retirement, pay them at least $XX per hour.

or

If - you could pay the salary & benefits you both agree to, terminate them any time you wanted.

If you want more jobs to be created - making it easier to get rid of people actually does it better than not allowing people to be terminated.

This will be EASY to understand if YOU ARE PAYING THE EMPLOYEE OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:00   #124
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Montana was, and may still be, the only state with a law against At Will Employment. An employer needs a valid reason to fire you here, HOWEVER... that doesn't stop them from firing you anyway, they just call it something else.

I was sent home, "pending an investigation", on April 4th from my job as Gun Room Manager at Wholesale Sports for saying to one of my problem employees, "Piss off, Chuck". No word the next day, so I called the store to speak to the manager and was told he was on vacation. He wouldn't answer his cell and didn't return my calls, so I called the "Senior Human Resources Consultant" at our Federal Way store and, in short, was told, "Dave told me you quit and I've already separated you."

"Job Abandonment", and just like that, I was in the soup line. He also fired my immediate superior four days ago, but that's another story.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:12   #125
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At will = Kiss butt to get ahead or keep your job. ....

Or, be very very good at providing needed skills, talents, or abilities.

There's a universe of opportunity out there, even in the worst of times. The variety of needs to be filled in a free market is infinite.
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