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Old 11-09-2012, 16:49   #51
pmcjury
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Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
The nice thing is that they don't have to do a background check if you have a CHL. You just walk in, fill out the paper work, hand over your cash and your CHL, and you walk out with your gun a few minutes later.
I've seen people say this several times, but I am curious how a state issued license trumps federal law. Isn't the nics check mandated at the federal level for all ffl sales.

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Old 11-09-2012, 16:52   #52
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Permit? What is this permit for carry/purchase you speak of? Damn I love AZ

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Old 11-09-2012, 16:53   #53
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I've seen people say this several times, but I am curious how a state issued license trumps federal law. Isn't the nics check mandated at the federal level for all ffl sales.

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I honestly have no idea if the NICS check is mandated at the federal level, I haven't looked into it. However, the story I've heard is that if someone has a valid CHL, then they already know that their background is clear, and they don't need to go through the effort of checking it again.

Or maybe they just assume that since they have their CHL, they'll clear the background check, so they don't need the person to wait around while they do it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:03   #54
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Permit? What is this permit for carry/purchase you speak of? Damn I love AZ

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Do you have an AZ check and a NICS check to complete at time of purchase from a dealer ?
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:14   #55
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I don't know how it is in Iowa, but in Texas the authority take legal action is always in effect for Peace Officers. Regardless of on duty, working a secondary assignment, or off duty.
I believe you are correct about on duty or off duty here in Iowa or most any state. I think where this went sideways if the story is correct is the officer should of just ask for identification rather than a CC permit. Apparently the police Sgt. either didn't know the difference between open carry and conceal or he just choose to ignore it. Just my personal opinion but open carry in a dept store is just not a good idea regardless if it is legal or not. On second thought maybe the officer did ask for ID and was told he had a CC but simply refused to produce it. It could of been so simple if the guy produced the permit and the office realized he most likely was no threat and just suggested the man conceal his weapon since people were uneasy.
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:30   #56
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Cool thanks. Our permit to purchase pistols allows one to walk into a store and skip the background check completely. Considering the time savings and convenience, I guess Chuck TX was right, it is a progressive idea.

These are only used if one doesn't have a CCW. Since we are a "shall issue" state now, I assume this document will be phased out eventually.
Allows? You have to have one to purchase a pistol then, right?

I don't.
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:37   #57
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Allows? You have to have one to purchase a pistol then, right?

I don't.
You have to pass a background check at time of purchase. I don't.
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:53   #58
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This is in Iowa, who just went for Obama. Figures.
The local Walmart has uniformed security guards, several of whom made the local paper for stealing several thousand dollars worth of merchandise. I am in NYS, which also went for Obama. What a coincidence.
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Old 11-09-2012, 18:01   #59
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My Wal-mart hires off-duty Officers (in police uniform).

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Old 11-09-2012, 18:38   #60
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Why create waves? I would ease their mind and be on my way. It's easier on me, and a good faith civility.
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Old 11-09-2012, 19:40   #61
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You have to pass a background check at time of purchase. I don't.
I don't know about him, but I don't.
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Old 11-09-2012, 19:46   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcjury View Post
I've seen people say this several times, but I am curious how a state issued license trumps federal law. Isn't the nics check mandated at the federal level for all ffl sales.

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It doesn't.

If your state's CHL process meets certain criteria, it will serve in lieu of NICS at point of sale. I *THINK* if your state uses NICS when the license is issued.

For instance, Louisiana's doesn't because our legislators are idiots, so I still have to have the check done.
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Old 11-09-2012, 20:02   #63
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Because he was open carrying...if open carry is legal there without a permit, there is no reason to even ask for such a thing.
Open carry is NOT legal within city limits which obviously this was within city limits.

In Iowa the permit to purchase IS the background check. So you guys in your super duper ultra gun friendly states get to do background checks EVERY time you purchase a firearm. We do one once a year or once every five years if we have a CHL. This allows us to walk in the store, plop down our cash, fill out the 4473, and walk out the door no questions asked. To me it looks like we have a more effective and convenient system!
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Old 11-09-2012, 20:12   #64
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Originally Posted by NickC50310 View Post
Open carry is NOT legal within city limits which obviously this was within city limits.

In Iowa the permit to purchase IS the background check. So you guys in your super duper ultra gun friendly states get to do background checks EVERY time you purchase a firearm. We do one once a year or once every five years if we have a CHL. This allows us to walk in the store, plop down our cash, fill out the 4473, and walk out the door no questions asked. To me it looks like we have a more effective and convenient system!
Do they at least paint a yellow stripe around the city limits so you folks know when you're legal and illegal?

Background check takes 5 minutes but after it is complete, I can holster up and walk out with or without government permission.

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Old 11-09-2012, 20:23   #65
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I enjoy the pissing matches regarding who has the best set of hoops to jump through to exercise a right.
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Old 11-09-2012, 20:27   #66
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So what's if you become disqualified, does it flag your name.

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Old 11-09-2012, 20:30   #67
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....

Just because he was a LEO in uniform, does not necessarily mean that he was in the lawful performance of his duties at the time he requested/demanded the license/permit, nor does it mean that the encounter was lawfully a detention/seizure of his person under 4th Amendment.

Not sure how IOWA case law stands on open carry as RS of a crime.

Interesting viewpoint. Maybe the officer derives the authority to stop the suspect from the little smiley guy that cuts the prices at Walmart.
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Old 11-09-2012, 21:32   #68
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If a police officer asked me for my ID I would show him/her my driver's license even if I wasn't driving at the time.


Maybe it was the way I was raised but it doesn't seem like a good idea to piss people off especially a person with a gun and a big stick.


Many year ago I worked till 3:30 AM. There was never any traffic in my little town at the time. One night there were all kinds of red and blue lights from several vehicles. I pulled over, turned on my dome light, rolled down my driver's side window and put both of my hand on my steering wheel. A police officer came up and asked me a few questions looked at me. Very politely said good buy and they all left. I am sure they were looking for some one driving a Chevy 4X4 but I wasn't the one. Do you know how many Chevy 4X4's there are in Wyoming.



Police have a tough enough job to do. Ever LE officer I ever meet was a person just trying to provide for their family and just want to live long enough to retire. When that police officer working security for Walmart he wasn't doing it for fun. He was probably doing it because he needed to earn extra money. Show him your permit. If you think he violated your rights talk to an attorney later. If he was right you save yourself an arrest record and if he was wrong let your attorney handle it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 21:35   #69
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If a police officer asked me for my ID I would show him/her my driver's license even if I wasn't driving at the time.
Maybe it was the way I was raised too, but I'd do the same thing. Generally, unless you're doing something majorly wrong, if you cooperate everything will be over 10x sooner than if you try to claim every single one of your rights and constantly pester the officer with questions and make stupid demands and all this other ****. If a cop asked to see my ID, i'd just hand it over and let him get on with the more important stuff. There is absolutely no reason to tie up the cop's time more than is absolutely necessary for him to perform his job.
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Old 11-09-2012, 21:41   #70
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Open carry is NOT legal within city limits which obviously this was within city limits.

In Iowa the permit to purchase IS the background check. So you guys in your super duper ultra gun friendly states get to do background checks EVERY time you purchase a firearm. We do one once a year or once every five years if we have a CHL. This allows us to walk in the store, plop down our cash, fill out the 4473, and walk out the door no questions asked. To me it looks like we have a more effective and convenient system!
So they don't call in your 4473?

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Old 11-09-2012, 21:46   #71
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So they don't call in your 4473?

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No, it is not necessary.
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Old 11-09-2012, 22:03   #72
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Do they at least paint a yellow stripe around the city limits so you folks know when you're legal and illegal?

Background check takes 5 minutes but after it is complete, I can holster up and walk out with or without government permission.
By that time I will have already been armed for five minutes walking out with my pistol holstered on my hip if I chose to do so. What if theres a delay? Then youre waiting a day at least!

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I enjoy the pissing matches regarding who has the best set of hoops to jump through to exercise a right.


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So they don't call in your 4473?

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As Jeff said, no. I didnt even know that when I bought my first pistol back in 05. I was like isnt there a BG check or something and the guy was like no- you already have your permit to purchase.
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Old 11-09-2012, 22:04   #73
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Do they at least paint a yellow stripe around the city limits so you folks know when you're legal and illegal?

Background check takes 5 minutes but after it is complete, I can holster up and walk out with or without government permission.
Yeah on this new invention called a map. Or this other nifty invention called a sign when you enter city limits!
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Old 11-09-2012, 22:12   #74
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It sounds like Iowa has the same law as TN where statutorily you are required to show the permit upon demand by a LEO. Many stores hire LEOs off-duty due to their experience, education, training, and powers of arrest. They cost more to hire than normal security, but the liability is less if you have someone that knows what they're doing. Regardless of his job responsibilities at Walmart he can still enforce laws unrelated to shoplifting or other retail crimes, which is exactly what he did here. It appears that some customers were concerned which is probably what brought his attention to the guy. Refusing to show it is simply ignorant, especially when required to by law. I'm pretty sure most of the guys that teach the permit classes in my neck of the woods make sure their students know this when coming into contact with LE.
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Old 11-09-2012, 22:18   #75
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Open carry has elevated to the likes of flying the Confederate flag. Legally protected, Constitutionally guaranteed and even worshipped in some parts but for the love of christ's sake...give it at least an ounce of thought where the hell you do it and how you behave when doing so. HH
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