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Old 11-08-2012, 21:56   #26
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If employers can't fire employees at will, should employees be compelled to work or pay a fine when they want to quit and leave an employer in a bind?
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:04   #27
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Wow! You don't even know me and saying I shafted the business?

I really busted my ass trying to get ahead after my divorce. I had plans to move next year and get a temp job while I get things in order to start my own business. Everything seemed to be falling in place and bam, I GOT SHAFTED.
No doubt you got shafted, and i am sorry to hear that happened to you. I also recognize that you are upset and angry, especially working side-by-side...wait, working while union slackers watch. It's a crap situation no doubt.

I didn't say you shafted business, but should this come to pass it would.

I personally prefer at-will employment. One time when i was working in a retail store I came to the realization that i did nearly all the work on my shift while the other three employees worked harder at not doing stuff.

I walked up on a conversation they were having where they all were complaining about how far they had to walk down the hallway to the timeclock to punch in, and how much " work" that was.

Seriously, fifteen steps down a hallway was a legitimate hardship to them.

Less then 5 minutes later I had turned in my shirt and was free of that place without breaking my word or anything. Liberating.

At will allows employees to extract themselves from bad situations and minimize psychological/physical hardship in doing so. On the same note, employers can decide they no longer need you without having to expose themselves to the damage a spiteful employee can cause in their "lame duck" time after they get a warning it's coming.

Does it provide the opportunity for people in power to power trip and burn those under them? absolutely. Inherent in freedom is risk.

Take heart in the fact that the business is worse off without you then you are without it, and that finding another job won't be under the exacting conditions your proposal would create.
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:12   #28
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If employers can't fire employees at will, should employees be compelled to work or pay a fine when they want to quit and leave an employer in a bind?
Im not suggesting change it completely.
Just saying/asking, is it too much to ask employers to give 1 warning so that employees that do not belong to a union have one chance to fix/change their ways?
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:16   #29
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Im not suggesting change it completely.
Just saying/asking, is it too much to ask employers to give 1 warning so that employees that do not belong to a union have one chance to fix/change their ways?
I understand that things might be tougher where you are, as opposed to where I am, but why would you want to work with an employer like that?
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:21   #30
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Fired or laid off?

No offense but why would they fire you for no reason? What did they gain?
Fired.

No idea. All I know is one of the managers didn't like me for some reason.
I did Loss Prevention for a grocery store. Just after my probation/training period on my first shoplift stop, I made a small mistake and let the shoplifter pay for the items. Not supposed to do that since we can't send the civil fine by doing so.

This one manager blatantly lied and told upper management that I told her not to tell anyone that I let the shoplifter pay for the items. This is absolutely not true.
In fact I called both my supervisor and manager(LP department) and told them both immediately after.

I found out about this lie a few weeks later from the LP manager and immediately notified the upper two store managers that it was not true.
I think since then this manager obviously had something in for me.
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:21   #31
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Im not suggesting change it completely.
Just saying/asking, is it too much to ask employers to give 1 warning so that employees that do not belong to a union have one chance to fix/change their ways?
Why not join the union? Seems like you have a notion the grass is greener on that side, why not got see for yourself why it isn't?
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:22   #32
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No doubt you got shafted, and i am sorry to hear that happened to you. I also recognize that you are upset and angry, especially working side-by-side...wait, working while union slackers watch. It's a crap situation no doubt.

I didn't say you shafted business, but should this come to pass it would.

I personally prefer at-will employment. One time when i was working in a retail store I came to the realization that i did nearly all the work on my shift while the other three employees worked harder at not doing stuff.

I walked up on a conversation they were having where they all were complaining about how far they had to walk down the hallway to the timeclock to punch in, and how much " work" that was.

Seriously, fifteen steps down a hallway was a legitimate hardship to them.

Less then 5 minutes later I had turned in my shirt and was free of that place without breaking my word or anything. Liberating.

At will allows employees to extract themselves from bad situations and minimize psychological/physical hardship in doing so. On the same note, employers can decide they no longer need you without having to expose themselves to the damage a spiteful employee can cause in their "lame duck" time after they get a warning it's coming.

Does it provide the opportunity for people in power to power trip and burn those under them? absolutely. Inherent in freedom is risk.

Take heart in the fact that the business is worse off without you then you are without it, and that finding another job won't be under the exacting conditions your proposal would create.
Totally understand what you're saying.
I worked for a grocery store as a Loss Prevention agent. Saw that a lot!
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:26   #33
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I understand that things might be tougher where you are, as opposed to where I am, but why would you want to work with an employer like that?
Oh I definitely don't. I just can't help but think about how many other people this has happened to.

Don't miss the stress and politics of this job at all. Think i'm more pissed at the fact that it's going to be difficult to move out of State now.
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:26   #34
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Im not suggesting change it completely.
Just saying/asking, is it too much to ask employers to give 1 warning so that employees that do not belong to a union have one chance to fix/change their ways?
wait, thought you got fired for "no reason"?


there is always a reason..
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:27   #35
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Why not join the union? Seems like you have a notion the grass is greener on that side, why not got see for yourself why it isn't?
My position didn't have that option but I am definitely not for unions!
Didn't mean to sound like I am.
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:29   #36
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wait, thought you got fired for "no reason"?


there is always a reason..
I wasn't given a reason.

Manager walked in and said "some things are going on and so we're letting you go today". That was it.
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:33   #37
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I've had to fire several people. Probably my least favorite part of being a boss. I only do so for cause. That is, employee misconduct or neglect of duties. Examples are multiple no call, no shows. Or theft. I've hired spotters (PI's) to observe the theft once it is suspected, so I can document just cause. Otherwise, they can try to collect unemployment from me. (well, the state would pay it, but it would raise my future unemployment insurance rates). I've had to defend myself on just firings in multiple cases, both in KY and AZ, and I've never lost a case (all firings were found by the state to be justified)

I hate slackers. I'm lazy, but I'm a lazy workaholic. I do my job. So should others.
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:34   #38
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Don't have to see stuff like this every day though!

The Okie Corral

He's wearing Jordan's shoes and addidas shorts. You can see shes dressed all preppy and both had smartphones.

The Okie Corral

$331 ending balance. That's left on their F/S card.

The Okie Corral

Can't see it in this pic but the back was loaded with subs and amps.....
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:36   #39
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I've had to fire several people. Probably my least favorite part of being a boss. I only do so for cause. That is, employee misconduct or neglect of duties. Examples are multiple no call, no shows. Or theft. I've hired spotters (PI's) to observe the theft once it is suspected, so I can document just cause. Otherwise, they can try to collect unemployment from me. (well, the state would pay it, but it would raise my future unemployment insurance rates). I've had to defend myself on just firings in multiple cases, both in KY and AZ, and I've never lost a case (all firings were found by the state to be justified)

I hate slackers. I'm lazy, but I'm a lazy workaholic. I do my job. So should others.
Agreed.
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:47   #40
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I wasn't given a reason.

Manager walked in and said "some things are going on and so we're letting you go today". That was it.
Just because you weren't given a reason doesn't man there WASN'T a reason.

There was a reason.
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:47   #41
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Couldn't at-will employers can someone right before retirement to save money?
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:51   #42
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Couldn't at-will employers can someone right before retirement to save money?
yep....
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:55   #43
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I wasn't given a reason.

Manager walked in and said "some things are going on and so we're letting you go today". That was it.
In texas, there are a combination of laws and company policies that protect both parties. On the employee side, you are covered under the "workers compensation" program if the state concludes that the employer terminated you wronfully or for no reason. In that case, you are compensated I believe is 75% of your salary a month which the employer has to pay until you find another job. On the company side, the company can set resignation or quiting policies where they require you to give two week or a month's notice before you leave work if you want to be compensated for whatever vacations or personal time you had accrued or if you plan to work again in that company in the future. Also if the company provided training or schooling within the last year which was paid for by the company, then company has the right to recover or get reinbursed whatever amount the company paid for such training from you if you quit or resign.
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:56   #44
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In many states, like Georgia, most small businesses will "fire" you rather than lay you off because the right wing owners don't think you should be able to collect unemployment.

On one hand, "At will" or "right to work" states, it screws the employees, but at the same time, they are more likely to hire based upon they can terminate you just as easily.
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Old 11-08-2012, 22:59   #45
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Just because you weren't given a reason doesn't man there WASN'T a reason.

There was a reason.
Yeh probably that manager running around lying again.
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Old 11-08-2012, 23:05   #46
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Couldn't at-will employers can someone right before retirement to save money?
This would be an example of 'don't hate the game, hate the player'

And another representation in the risks inherent in freedom.

Wouldn't have it any other way, you are free to choose poorly as much as wisely, and change your mind at any time for any reason or none at all.

That last sentence can apply equally to employer or employee, not much left like that so savor it while we still have it.
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Old 11-08-2012, 23:05   #47
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yep....
And I think thats wrong. I don't think a company should be able to play with someones lively hood like that.
Besides, our government needs the taxes. Not more people on welfare.
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Old 11-08-2012, 23:10   #48
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I am an "at will" employee but they also must have "just cause" to fire me.
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Old 11-08-2012, 23:14   #49
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I am an "at will" employee but they also must have "just cause" to fire me.
Which I would be fine with.
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Old 11-08-2012, 23:16   #50
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And I think thats wrong. I don't think a company should be able to play with someones lively hood like that.
Why not? An employee could just up and leave taking the skilled labor needed to meet a clients demands on schedule with them when they leave, and it my not be possible to replace them in time to meet the obligations the company made.

As an employee you should find a company that won't do that, and as an employer you should find employees that would pay you the same respect/courtesy.

At will protects from being stuck if you come to realize you are in a situation you don't want to be.

If you'd rather trade liberty for security, you want a union without realizing it.

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