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Old 11-08-2012, 08:51   #1
digilo
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Background check to get back gun you've pawned....

Why? What is the reasoning behind this?

(If this isn't a gun control issue, my apologies. I looked for the appropriate forum)

If I take my gun to a gunsmith, I don't fill out a BGC for that. Yet if I pawn a gun, I have to go through a BG check, just as if I was buying a weapon. What is the difference? I am not transferring ownership, just possession, in both instances. So why a BGC with a gun I have pawned, versus not doing it with a smith?

(note; I am NOT saying we should have to do it for smith work, rather, we should NOT have to do it with pawned guns.)
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Last edited by digilo; 11-08-2012 at 08:51..
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:06   #2
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Found this answer...

"When you pawned your gun, you transferred ownership of that gun, to the pawn shop. Thanks to the Brady campaign all FFL dealers need to submit a NICS check for the transfer of a firearm. "
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:43   #3
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Originally Posted by TheExplorer View Post
Found this answer...

"When you pawned your gun, you transferred ownership of that gun, to the pawn shop. Thanks to the Brady campaign all FFL dealers need to submit a NICS check for the transfer of a firearm. "
My local PS owner told me about that. He was saying how he called our Congressman and asked him to find an explanation as to how pawning a gun is any different than leaving it with a gunsmith. He got no answer, just the law recited. If the ownership is transferred, that means (by US law) that the PS owner can sell it to anyone. But he can't, as ownership isn't transferred. Even his insurance proves it- thats one reason he has to carry so much, is that he stores other people's guns there. He told me, "if those guns ARE mine, I could drop a lot of my insurance", but he can't, because the guns aren't his.

Same with a 'smith. Ownership is not transferred, merely possession, same as a car at a repair shop.

I guess it's the same reasoning that made hollow-points illegal in NJ.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:49   #4
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Originally Posted by digilo View Post
My local PS owner told me about that. He was saying how he called our Congressman and asked him to find an explanation as to how pawning a gun is any different than leaving it with a gunsmith. He got no answer, just the law recited. If the ownership is transferred, that means (by US law) that the PS owner can sell it to anyone. But he can't, as ownership isn't transferred. Even his insurance proves it- thats one reason he has to carry so much, is that he stores other people's guns there. He told me, "if those guns ARE mine, I could drop a lot of my insurance", but he can't, because the guns aren't his.

Same with a 'smith. Ownership is not transferred, merely possession, same as a car at a repair shop.

I guess it's the same reasoning that made hollow-points illegal in NJ.
That's a good point you made as you have the right to pick it up within a certain time period. Anything after that the gun is considered his to do with what he chooses. This might me a good question for GT member BREN.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:54   #5
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That's a good point you made as you have the right to pick it up within a certain time period. Anything after that the gun is considered his to do with what he chooses. This might me a good question for GT member BREN.
Exactly. The gun is mine until the contract expires at which time the gun is his. And, as PS owner put it, there's the added insurance requirement because he's keeping other people's firearms.

It is confusing.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:27   #6
Gunnut 45/454
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digilo
Well it sounds like a over reach using the Brady law- misinterptation by the BATF. But really does that surprise anyone. Have your Congress critter get the BATF to justify it or remove the interptation.
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Old 11-08-2012, 17:57   #7
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If you pawn a gun and leave the building you have to fill out a BGC even if you turn right back around and go back in. If you leave the premises, you have to fill it out.

The ATF was clear on this with me. He has to log the gun in his book and to log it back out has to have the form filled out or transfer it to his personal collection. No exceptions. Once he logs it, its done. If you don't pass, you don't get it back. They can run a NICS before to see if you will have any problems getting it back.

Why? You can pawn a gun, go get into a domestic dispute or commit a crime that would otherwise prevent you from getting a gun and then come back and get it.

And, only because I know someone is bound to say "WRONG." and nothing else.

Directly from the FBI NICS book.

"The FBI has further considered that this rule will apply to pawn redemptions, and that many pawnbrokers are small entities. The obligation of FFLs to contact the NICS before transferring a firearm, and the applicability of NICS checks to pawn redemptions, are imposed by the Brady Act and detailed in the proposed ATF regulations implementing the permanent provisions of the Brady Act (63 FR 8379).

A number of comments from the pawnbrokers’ industry addressed the circumstances that will develop when a person redeems a firearm from pawn but the firearm cannot be transferred back to the individual because of a disqualifying record found by the NICS check. The U.S. Department of Treasury Fiscal Year 1999 appropriations legislation includes a provision to allow pawnbrokers the option of requesting a NICS background check at the time a person offers the firearm for pawn. An additional check would still be necessary at the time of redemption. NICS will be made available to pawnbrokers for this purpose."

II. Firearm Transfers that Require a Background Check

A. Sales and Pawn Redemptions

A request for a NICS check must be made prior to the transfer of a firearm to an unlicensed individual for both a sale and a pawn redemption. In both cases, the FFL must ask the customer to complete the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Form 4473 and use the information provided on the form to initiate a background check. Upon initiating a background check, the FFL must request and record a NICS Transaction Number (NTN) even though a transfer may later be abandoned. The NTN is a unique number assigned by the NICS Section to each inquiry that connects all activity associated with that number."


In effect you are doing a sort of short sell of the gun temporarily when you pawn it. You are exchanging the gun for money, the FFL just doesn't transfer it in his book to his collection or another owner so technically the gun is still yours. But only on paper.

Hope that helps.
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Last edited by Glock 1; 11-08-2012 at 18:31..
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Old 11-08-2012, 18:09   #8
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Old 11-08-2012, 18:10   #9
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Last edited by Glock 1; 11-08-2012 at 18:20..
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Old 11-08-2012, 18:13   #10
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Pawnbrokers dealing in firearms are FFLs. When you pawn the gun, it is entered in his FFL register. For the gun to LEAVE his register, he must have a proper "audit trail" of both financial and LEGAL clearances. He must prove he transferred the gun to a "proper person" able to possess a firearm. The issue of ownership of the firearm is superceded by the TRANSFER of the firearm.
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Old 11-08-2012, 18:15   #11
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Last edited by Glock 1; 11-08-2012 at 18:20..
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Old 11-08-2012, 18:16   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samurairabbi View Post
Pawnbrokers dealing in firearms are FFLs. When you pawn the gun, it is entered in his FFL register. For the gun to LEAVE his register, he must have a proper "audit trail" of both financial and LEGAL clearances. He must prove he transferred the gun to a "proper person" able to possess a firearm. The issue of ownership of the firearm is superceded by the TRANSFER of the firearm.
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Old 11-08-2012, 20:12   #13
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Thanks for taking the time to write that up, Glock, and Sam.
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