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Old 11-03-2012, 13:46   #41
GWG19
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Originally Posted by shawnbryan View Post
Perfectly said - skill is far more important than the load out of 30-06. Deer are easy to kill - provided you make a clean shot.
That is a true statement. My go to hunting gun is a 25-06. The 120 grain bullet is what shoots the smallest groups and is at the top of chart for bullet weight in a 25-06. I have a buddy in NM that use this combination for elk hunting.
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Old 11-03-2012, 14:04   #42
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That is a true statement. My go to hunting gun is a 25-06. The 120 grain bullet is what shoots the smallest groups and is at the top of chart for bullet weight in a 25-06. I have a buddy in NM that use this combination for elk hunting.
.25-06 for elk hunting? This must be a challenge.
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Old 11-03-2012, 14:37   #43
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.25-06 for elk hunting? This must be a challenge.
Not as much as you think. The 264 is considered to be more than adequate for Moose and Stag in Europe. The differences are .007 in the bullet dia. and about 5 grains in bullet weight. You can step up to a 140 grain bullet in a 264.
The 25-06 loaded with a good bullet will the job very nicely. You load the Nosler 120 partitioned bullet to about 3200fps which is a warn load for the 25-06, but easy enough to obtain.
Shot placement and shot distance are important. No it is not a 400 yard Elk cartridge, like a 7mm Mag. Most people don't shoot that far any ways. The guides that I have hunted with told me the average shot on a elk is 130 to 180 yards.

Think about this the 30-30 was the hot bad ass cartridge once upon a time. People shot a bunch of elk with it. By today's standard it is fit for small white tails.
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Old 11-03-2012, 15:04   #44
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Not as much as you think. The 264 is considered to be more than adequate for Moose and Stag in Europe. The differences are .007 in the bullet dia. and about 5 grains in bullet weight. You can step up to a 140 grain bullet in a 264.
The 25-06 loaded with a good bullet will the job very nicely. You load the Nosler 120 partitioned bullet to about 3200fps which is a warn load for the 25-06, but easy enough to obtain.
Shot placement and shot distance are important. No it is not a 400 yard Elk cartridge, like a 7mm Mag. Most people don't shoot that far any ways. The guides that I have hunted with told me the average shot on a elk is 130 to 180 yards.

Think about this the 30-30 was the hot bad ass cartridge once upon a time. People shot a bunch of elk with it. By today's standard it is fit for small white tails.
And the whitetails haven't gotten any bigger, have they?
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Old 11-03-2012, 19:11   #45
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.308 180 gr soft point got my buck this year. The kill shot was maybe 30 yards but a perfect broadside. Made a baseball sized exit wound through the rib cage. But very little meat damaged.

Too much power & too much bullet IMHO. Remainder of season, I'm using .223 HP in my Mini 14.
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Old 11-04-2012, 14:16   #46
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.308 180 gr soft point got my buck this year. The kill shot was maybe 30 yards but a perfect broadside. Made a baseball sized exit wound through the rib cage. But very little meat damaged.

Too much power & too much bullet IMHO. Remainder of season, I'm using .223 HP in my Mini 14.
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Old 11-04-2012, 15:45   #47
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Mark another one down for your "old school" soft point. As stated above, deer are not hard to put down so you don't need to spend $50 on a box of shells.

Also mentioned above (several times) are the Remington Core-Lokt cartridges. They just plain work, so if your rifle shoots them well I say just go for it. The 150 grain load is plenty for deer. Around here the Core Lokt ammo is always on sale around hunting season, too.

I used to hunt with a guy who had 2 huge heads mounted in his office. One was a moose and the other - just as large - was an elk. He had the bullet that he had shot the elk with in a little plastic bottle. It was the only core lokt bullet he ever recovered, and it had entered the elk's left rear hip on a quartering away shot and traveled diagonally up through the right lung and was found just under the hide on the right front shoulder. Both the left rear hip and right front leg were broken. The elk was dead by the time they walked up there... about an 80 yard shot.

I took the bullet home one afternoon to weigh it for Grover and was suprised to see that the 180 grain core lokt still weighed 160 grains. That's about 88% weight retention on a round that broke bones and penetrated a goodly amount. Textbook performance.
Using the Core-lokts on deer and hogs I go with a heavier bullet than I normally would to ensure that I don't blow the bullet up when taking a close range shot. Instead of going with 150gr I go with 165, and I
don't think a 180 in this bullet would be a bad choice either. I haven't had problems with 150gr Winchester Power Points blowing up at close range in my 20" LTR 308 Win, but Core-Lokts in a 24" barrel 30-06 in the 150gr weight tend to blow up and do not exit the hogs I've shot at up to 100 yards. Now each hog dropped on the spot so they are plenty, but I have a preference for my rounds to exit when taking a broad side shot.
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Old 11-04-2012, 19:19   #48
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Using the Core-lokts on deer and hogs I go with a heavier bullet than I normally would to ensure that I don't blow the bullet up when taking a close range shot. Instead of going with 150gr I go with 165, and I
don't think a 180 in this bullet would be a bad choice either. I haven't had problems with 150gr Winchester Power Points blowing up at close range in my 20" LTR 308 Win, but Core-Lokts in a 24" barrel 30-06 in the 150gr weight tend to blow up and do not exit the hogs I've shot at up to 100 yards. Now each hog dropped on the spot so they are plenty, but I have a preference for my rounds to exit when taking a broad side shot.
Agree wholeheartedly. That's why I don't like the ballistic silvertips. Not a particularly sturdy bullet construction. I've seen them knock the crap out of a muley, so I'd be lying if I said they "failed", but I'd rather get a little more penetration, which is why I like the Speer Grand Slams. Half dollar sized exit wound, and some balls to spare.

Years ago the Hornady manual used to list the purpose of the A-max bullet as target / hunting. Now they just show its purpose as target. Had a friend shoot a mule deer with a 168 A-max at about 50 yards. It pretty much behaved like a varmint bullet - just exploded. Again, dead deer, so it was a success, but it just destroyed the animal. Not pretty (although it was easy to track ).
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Old 11-04-2012, 20:21   #49
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Agree wholeheartedly. That's why I don't like the ballistic silvertips. Not a particularly sturdy bullet construction. I've seen them knock the crap out of a muley, so I'd be lying if I said they "failed", but I'd rather get a little more penetration, which is why I like the Speer Grand Slams. Half dollar sized exit wound, and some balls to spare.

Years ago the Hornady manual used to list the purpose of the A-max bullet as target / hunting. Now they just show its purpose as target. Had a friend shoot a mule deer with a 168 A-max at about 50 yards. It pretty much behaved like a varmint bullet - just exploded. Again, dead deer, so it was a success, but it just destroyed the animal. Not pretty (although it was easy to track ).
You really know your ammo well, don't you ZS?
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Old 11-04-2012, 20:39   #50
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Agree wholeheartedly. That's why I don't like the ballistic silvertips. Not a particularly sturdy bullet construction. I've seen them knock the crap out of a muley, so I'd be lying if I said they "failed", but I'd rather get a little more penetration, which is why I like the Speer Grand Slams. Half dollar sized exit wound, and some balls to spare.

Years ago the Hornady manual used to list the purpose of the A-max bullet as target / hunting. Now they just show its purpose as target. Had a friend shoot a mule deer with a 168 A-max at about 50 yards. It pretty much behaved like a varmint bullet - just exploded. Again, dead deer, so it was a success, but it just destroyed the animal. Not pretty (although it was easy to track ).
I haven't tried the Speer Grand Slams, but I do really like their 165gr BTSP loaded with a compressed load of RE15. I get excellent accuracy with this load, and it's moving along pretty well in my 20" barrel (2675fps). Speer makes very good bullets.
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Old 11-04-2012, 21:48   #51
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I haven't tried the Speer Grand Slams, but I do really like their 165gr BTSP loaded with a compressed load of RE15. I get excellent accuracy with this load, and it's moving along pretty well in my 20" barrel (2675fps). Speer makes very good bullets.
I don't expect to see grand slams or even mag-tips on the menu much longer. They really can produce the bonded deep curl bullets cheaper. I've just never tried them, and I probably won't - Nosler has me hooked on loading the Accubonds these days. I feel like loading a flat based bullet is a step back. Maybe unfounded, as the boat tail doesn't really start making much difference until you get out a few hundred yards. Well, they are easier to start in the case, anyway...
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:00   #52
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I haven't tried the Speer Grand Slams, but I do really like their 165gr BTSP loaded with a compressed load of RE15. I get excellent accuracy with this load, and it's moving along pretty well in my 20" barrel (2675fps). Speer makes very good bullets.
Speer does indeed make good bullets. I am about to start reloading for my G17 now - Speer 115gr FMJs.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:48   #53
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You really know your ammo well, don't you ZS?
Well, I suppose I'm an inch wide and a mile deep. I've done a lot of load development with 30 caliber bullets between range fodder for the M14 to "match" target loads to medium and heavy hunting loads, .308 to .300 RUM. If you asked me about a quarter bore or a 6.5mm, I would just be guessing.

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Old 11-05-2012, 16:40   #54
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Well, I suppose I'm an inch wide and a mile deep. I've done a lot of load development with 30 caliber bullets between range fodder for the M14 to "match" target loads to medium and heavy hunting loads, .308 to .300 RUM. If you asked me about a quarter bore or a 6.5mm, I would just be guessing.

Have you ever reloaded .223/5.56mm?
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Old 11-05-2012, 17:13   #55
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Have you ever reloaded .223/5.56mm?
Yep. I have two loads - 55 grain fmj and a 69 grain Sierra Matchking. Found great loads right off the bat, both with Varget, and haven't done any load development since.

I will probably do a 50 grain hp load for p-dogs. I just don't shoot my .223's with much regularity.
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Old 11-05-2012, 17:54   #56
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Yep. I have two loads - 55 grain fmj and a 69 grain Sierra Matchking. Found great loads right off the bat, both with Varget, and haven't done any load development since.

I will probably do a 50 grain hp load for p-dogs. I just don't shoot my .223's with much regularity.
Do you neck size, or full-length size?
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Old 11-05-2012, 19:02   #57
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Full length for AR's... Don't own a .223 bolt gun.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:03   #58
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Full length for AR's... Don't own a .223 bolt gun.
OIC! Happy shooting to you!
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Old 11-09-2012, 22:36   #59
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Here is a 180 grain Barnes TTSX loaded to 2700fps from earlier tonight. ~45 yard shot. The deer didn't take a step...DRT.

Entrance wound

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Exit wound (broke his right leg)

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Old 11-10-2012, 07:45   #60
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whitebread - do you run into really bad copper fouling with a solid copper bullet? I had a buddy give me a few hundred of the Nosler E-tips... I found a decent load, but it absolutely caked copper in the bore. The E-tips are gilding metal (copper / zinc). I never tried the Barnes bullets, but those are straight copper, right?
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