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Old 11-02-2012, 10:31   #26
Reswob
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
I'm horribly confused as to what help we can be, OP.

You already own a G26, which is a great back-up/deep-concealment pistol. Is there a reason why you don't just roll with it? Does it not suit your needs for some reason?
Most likely the complaint is it's too ******* fat. A single stack like the PF-9 is much easier to carry than a small brick.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:29   #27
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Moral of the story: don't buy your girlfriend a Glock 26 or she'll want to marry you!
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Old 11-02-2012, 13:33   #28
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As to small pocket guns, my answer is a M&P340 with Speer Gold Dot +P 135 NYPD ammo. Works every time, any time, all the time.

As to a small pocket pistol, the Ruger LCP and the S&W Shield, .380 and 9mm, are the best of the bunch for ergonomics and function.

KelTec makes kits that you get to make into a gun. They don't even hide it. See their web site about how to fluff and buff a KelTec like a PF9. The one I owned lasted three rounds before braze welding the firing pin to the slide interior passage.

The Kahr CW9 I owned was one fix or another over and over. Below is the "list" of what it took to make it run only to ultimately go back to dropping magazines. Unless you are a mechanical engineer or a professional pistol fixer, avoid Kahr. You never know what you are going to get.

The Ruger pocket 9 still has issues with primer debris in the firing pin way. The trigger stacks so much it is no fun to shoot. Almost all the pocket guns have a long trigger pull and a long reset. Hard to use. Not Glock like. The S&W Shield has a very good Glock like trigger pull and reset. First choice if a M26 is too thick. Go with the M26 if you can stand the thickness and weight. Then the Shield. Then the LCP.



****************Another Post*********************

The Kahr is perhaps an easier size pocket pistol. That is its only advantage.

A Glock, any Glock, will probably work all the time. A Kahr will only work between failures to work, new defects, parts wear, and other malfunctions.

Follows is a short list of the things it took to make a Kahr CW9 even remotely reliable. Notice the result of the work, expense, trouble, ammo testing: Failure.

Things it took to make it increasingly reliable:

*the rounded top front of trigger turning down cut my finger on first magazine. I removed metal, reprofiled the part that acts as a trigger stop in the forward motion, smoothed the part that rotates down away from the frame when you pull the trigger. If you have large hands, it rotates down and cuts your finger. A Kahr person on the phone said the worst that happens when you remove the trigger forward motion stop part of the trigger is that the free pull lengthens slightly. No harm by changing it.

*inside of trigger guard was rough cast plastic where your finger rubs as you pull to the rear. Polished the plastic so as not to retard my finger coming to the rear.

*disconnector was eating plastic in rear where upside down U is located for slide contact. Harbor Freight Mini-Dremel did its magic removing burrs from the stamped disconnector/trigger bar part. Burring stopped.

*magazines would not drop free when mag catch released them. Mini-Dremel removed burrs from the trigger bar reduced dragging on the magazines. Helped, not the full answer. They would mostly fall free.

*barrel had burrs all over from factory machining. Mini-Dremel neatly smoothed the sharp feathers and polished corners for smooth operation.

*striker tang-firing pin "sear" burred on bottom making a catchy draggy pull. Polished it with 600 grit paper backed with a flat stone. Much improved pull without a late in stroke catch.

*hand cycled the action 200 times just to loosen up the system and identify spots that rubbed.

*fired 200 rounds of WallyWorld WW115FMJ perfectly. Zero malfunctions. Every time, I loaded 7+1 to stress it as much as possible. Worked perfect. (Except for mags dropped out 2 or 3 times for unknown reason at the time. Worried me, but it never did it again. Remember this for later.) Thought gun was good to go. Time to test hollow points. Wrongie when I switched to hollow points.

*Where the barrel hood meets the chamber at top, there was a machined ledge about 1/32" tall under the hood upon which every brand of hollow point would catch and not enter chamber 3-4 shots out of each 8. Speer Gold Dot, Federal HydraShok, Winchester PD something, EVEN Hornady Critical Defense would hang up on it. Solution equaled you guessed it. Mini-Dremel away the L_ of the ledge and made it into a /_ if you get the idea. Polished and deburred the entire rear end of the barrel and hood in any place where a bullet could possibly come in contact. In Colt .45ACP terms, it was throated and polished. Also polished the feed ramp and rounded the bottom corners where they were getting burred on something.

*result equaled perfect function with any hollow point. Since the ledge was reshaped, it has now eaten perfectly, feed/fire/eject, about 500 rounds since the above fixes. When the ledge went away, no more catching bullet noses, the thing works perfectly.

*magazines dropping free when the mag catch was pushed were problematic. Found feathers from casting the plastic frame hanging inside of plastic handle holding mags in. Defeathered handle inside and mags drop free.

*finger grip extensions were an extra lump in my pocket in a pocket holster and felt funny under my finger firing??user concern, not defect. I reshaped each magazine so as to eliminate the little finger hook. Just enough to match the slope of the plastic above the little hook. Not a radical reshaping, just enough to get rid of the projection and blend the profile into the magazine tube and bottom plate. It felt better firing and stuck out less carried.

*sighting in was a trip and a half. Rear sight destroyed a couple expensive brass drifts. It was simply too tight for any gun sight. Finally had to shape a steel punch to move the rear sight without hurting anything before the rear sight broke loose for proper adjustment. To move one you have to put the slide on a firm but non maring surface, use a steel drift, and wack it a good one. Not precise, but I got it perfect.

*the CW9 is now zeroed for Hornady Critical Defense 115 FTX ammo. It shoots about 1" high at 15 yards. Same sight position works with 115 WW FMJ. Same sight position works with 4.1 Bullseye, Hornady 115 FMJRN reloads. All three loads shoot to same zero. This is the factory ammo sight height selections which have to use 115 grain ammo for an elevation zero.

*heavier and heavier bullets shoot more and more to the left and up. Hornady's Critical Duty 135 grain 9mm is close to the three loads above because it is kinda slow for a 135 grain 9mm. Standard 147 9mm loads move left and up quickly. Never shot any +P as no need with the Hornady Critical Defense ammo expanding and holding together to penetrate well.

*so having 500 rounds through it with zero failures since all the fixes were done, I thought I was finally good to go.

*then I ran accross a "warning" about the magazine follower internally disconnecting the magazine catch as there were 4 rounds remaining and/or again when there were 3 rounds remaining in the magazine. The follower goes by the mag catch slot in the magazine and in going by pushes the mag catch out of its slot in the mag. This is aggravated by the twisting effect of the finger grip extension floor plates. I read this note and said, Naw, not mine. Wrong again.

*I stripped my pile of magazines and found the four original ones I bought at purchase chewed up with plastic sticking here and there. The newer ones were beginning the process of self destruction.

*There is a simple fix there. I sanded and polished away the chewing making a 45 degree bevel sort of rounding and hope that stops the chewing. Pretty much on the order of the pictures in the site thread referenced above. It at least removes plastic material sticking out into the mag catch slot. The chewing up of the follower in two spots seems a constant process until the follower no longer contacts the mag catch. Something to watch for in the future as I clean magazines. I had no interest in grinding away any more than it took to uniformly smooth the chewed up places and round the areas as in the referenced site. Test firing reveals no problems in do this.

*the finger grip hook on all my mags is gone now so as not to contribute to the inadvertent release of magazines by twisting or by pulling down on the hook. I like them better that way anyhow. Some people like the little hooks.

*The slide stop was too easy to put on by accident and I developed a good fix for that. If you overtighten the screw, it freezes the spring. The spring screw needs to be snug, but not forced too tight.

*The magazine came uncatched in my pocket one day. I put in a new Kahr catch and spring. Then it unlatched the mag when my daughter was shooting it.

*The reason for this became obvious. With the slide, barrel and spring off, and a magazine body with no follower and no spring or floorplate inserted, you could see what was going on. If the magazine twisted one way, the catch was in the slot deep. If the mag twisted the other way, the catch held by less than half the thickness of the magazine wall. When the frame flexed with firing, it uncatched and the mag dropped.

*She said it was a nice size gun for a purse, but if it FUBARs the first and only time she would ever shoot it, it was toast. Kid smarter than me. Her advice: Don't waste time trying to make something work that doesn't.

*Got another new catch and new spring and test fired it 100 rounds. It worked perfect. I then swapped the GD thing off for something that goes bang every time. What a waste of time and 800 rounds of ammo testing it.

***Kahr gone****

*Daughter shot my M26. She said it was stupid for a purse gun. Too many rounds missing from the magazine. The backstrap comes only half way down your palm which makes it rock. Even if you use a plus2 follower, the gun is not shaped right. With a flat floorplate, it is only two fingers anyhow. And still no backstrap support.

*She shot a M19 and bought one as the perfect girl's purse gun. Many rounds in the mag and the backstrap is long enough to promote comfort and control. It is all of a 1/2" and an ounce bigger than a M26. Far better size wise efficiency.

*Already having a M23, I agreed.
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Old 11-02-2012, 13:48   #29
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It is bigger, but you may want to give the G19 at try.
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Old 11-02-2012, 13:50   #30
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Get a S&W M&P Shield.You'll love it.
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Old 11-02-2012, 14:11   #31
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Let's face it - you have worn the Kel Tec out. It gave you years of service, but you outgrew it. Try to think of it as an old car. Now concentrate on your new car, the Glock. It will last you a lifetime. Example, my carry gun has not changed since 1989 - the Glock 17. It will be with me on the day I die (not any time soon - I'm only 56).
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Old 11-02-2012, 15:05   #32
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Ten years ago I had the same experience (essentially) with Kahr pistols as LampShadeActual. I went through 4 of them before I gave up and got a Glock 19, which in those days were bulletproof. Somewhere along the way I let the G19 go.

Last Summer (2011) I bought an early production G19 Gen4 and a Kahr CW9 (against my better judgement). Imagine my surprise when the Glock was a jamamatic anbd the Kahr ran, and still runs, like a Swiss watch.

You can get a problem gun from any manufacturer, and lately I think they're all cranking as fast as they can and probably cutting corners to meet the incredible demand. But if you look at the Kahr Talk Forum you will not see as high a percentage of posts about problem guns as we do on Glock Talk. There are some, yes, but not as many. I have seen several Kahr pistols at the ranges I shoot at and am always a little suspicious even today. I watch them shoot and talk to the owners. I have not seen or personally heard of a single problem with a Kahr made in the last few years.

You roll the dice with any gun, but I think the Kahrs are as good a bet as any.
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Old 11-02-2012, 16:02   #33
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Keltec will fix it for free, lifetime warranty

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

I had a trigger job done on it. Just to make it a little easier... it had a long travel and an awful break. Thinking that the warranty is invalid now. Right?


EDIT: It did NOT have a trigger job done to it. Going to send it back to the factory and see what they say. Thanks!

Last edited by LiebeGlock; 11-04-2012 at 16:43.. Reason: Mistake in information
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Old 11-02-2012, 16:04   #34
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I find this hard to believe considering the Glock 28 is THE EXACT SAME size as the G26/27.
O, wow. Can't believe I didn't know they're the same size. I honestly didn't do much research on them except they're not allowed here. I suppose I was just thinking a smaller caliber=smaller size gun. But of course, we all know that isn't true.

Thanks for letting me know!
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Old 11-02-2012, 16:09   #35
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
I'm horribly confused as to what help we can be, OP.

You already own a G26, which is a great back-up/deep-concealment pistol. Is there a reason why you don't just roll with it? Does it not suit your needs for some reason?

I'm sorry to laugh but I am 5'3", small framed and barely 120 lbs. There is NO way I can conceal the 26 unless it's under a big winter coat. And of course, being a girl-most of my clothes are fitted. I had no issue wearing the clothes I wanted while carrying the Kel Tec I would like to find another gun that would do the same job-Just a little better.
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Old 11-02-2012, 16:17   #36
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions... I have been eyeing the MP Shield. That was going to be my husband's next purchase. Maybe I will have him buy it and give it to me as a gift! haha!

I need to think and research any questions that I have, I believe I shot all of this guns, I just have to remember what they were like.

This past summer my husband was looking for a smaller 9mm to use for summer carry cause he wanted something smaller than his G19. And guess what he got?? You DIDN'T guess it... he surprised me by getting a GLOCK 17!!! We had rented all sorts of small 9mm hand guns, which included most of them that were named here. (Think I liked the Walther PPS the best.) And he goes out and gets a full sized gun. LOL!! It is bitter sweet sometimes to have a wife that actually knows about guns. Cause a 17 ain't no summer carry gun. That's for sure.

(Love you honey, if you see this post!)
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Old 11-02-2012, 16:50   #37
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Yeah, the P3AT conceals easy in summer, but it shoots like crap. Don't really care for .380 either. I've been looking for something to replace mine for times i want something smaller and light. Leaning towards either LC9, PF9, or P938.
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Old 11-02-2012, 17:45   #38
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Dear M?. Geyer,

This CW9 was a Fed-March 2012 gun. I tried very hard. Once I saw the inside of the frame to the magazine wobble and how it disconnected the mag catch, I quit.

The biggest problems with a non running gun are two:
1) ammo for testing. The ammo that the CW9 burned up seeing if this or that would make it work exceeded the cost of the gun over the spring and summer. Some was FMJ, some was reloads, but a couple hundred rounds of it was Federal HydraShok, Speer Gold Dot, and Hornady 115 FXT Critical Defense.
2) There is only so long and so often a guy can say, OK, I will fix this and then it will run. Hope and Change have their limits.

My daughter bought a M19 Gen4, I bought a second M19 Gen 4, and we added a third older one. They all work.
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Old 11-02-2012, 18:50   #39
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Dear M?. Geyer,

This CW9 was a Fed-March 2012 gun. I tried very hard. Once I saw the inside of the frame to the magazine wobble and how it disconnected the mag catch, I quit.

The biggest problems with a non running gun are two:
1) ammo for testing. The ammo that the CW9 burned up seeing if this or that would make it work exceeded the cost of the gun over the spring and summer. Some was FMJ, some was reloads, but a couple hundred rounds of it was Federal HydraShok, Speer Gold Dot, and Hornady 115 FXT Critical Defense.
2) There is only so long and so often a guy can say, OK, I will fix this and then it will run. Hope and Change have their limits.

My daughter bought a M19 Gen4, I bought a second M19 Gen 4, and we added a third older one. They all work.
Mr. My name is David.

I had a Feb 2012 Gen4 G19 that I had the same experience with that you had with your Kahr. I couldn't get it to stop jamming. I finally gave up and got rid of it.

Every manufacturer is pumping as fast as they can and still not meeting demand, at least around here. You can get a bad one of anything. Look at any of the brand specific boards. There are problems with all of them, even the high end guns. If you really want to be safe, wait till the rush on guns is over and the manufacturers start paying more attention to quality control.

Kahr isn't having any more problems than anyone else. Less than Glock. You don't see too many posters on the Kahr board ripping Kahr the way some people on this board do. Actually, I haven't seen any. Their CS takes care of problems.

Last edited by dhgeyer; 11-02-2012 at 18:52..
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Old 11-02-2012, 19:05   #40
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I recently purchased a Ruger LCP .380 Auto. It's a awesome and a very reliable gun. It is also very accurate and pretty easy to shoot for such a small gun. I carry it in my front jeans pocket in a Blackhawk size 3 pocket holster. People who know that I carry concealed can't even tell that I have gun in my front pocket.

You can't go wrong with a Ruger!
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Old 11-02-2012, 19:17   #41
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Go to a gun shop and look at these pistols side by side. These new pocket pistols are tiny compared to a glock 26. They make the Glock 26/27 look like a full size Glock 17.
Sub compacts is one thing but the pocket 9MM are a whole new breed to consider.
I was trying to find something for summer carry under a T shirt in 95 degree weather.
Rugers and Sigs are hard to beat. The Nano is still pretty big compared to others.
The G26 side by side on a M&P Sheild are really close. The sheild has a longer grip for the single stack mag. To me thats going to stick out more than the G26.
It doesnt cost anything to kick the tires at the gun shop.
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Old 11-02-2012, 20:15   #42
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It all depends on costs and what you want to spend. the little Smith Bodyguard is nice as well as the little 642 but the lightweight guns are normally carry a lot shoot a little type of firearm.
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Old 11-02-2012, 20:33   #43
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I'm sure I will have to go run for cover after this... but take a look at the Taurus 709slim... I have one of these w/Stainless slide and it has been completely flawless for less then 700+rnds, and it eats every brand and weight bullet I have put in it...

Taking cover now
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Old 11-04-2012, 16:41   #44
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I'm sure I will have to go run for cover after this... but take a look at the Taurus 709slim... I have one of these w/Stainless slide and it has been completely flawless for less then 700+rnds, and it eats every brand and weight bullet I have put in it...

Taking cover now

I will look into this, I have the Taurus PT738 and I really like it.
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Old 11-04-2012, 16:49   #45
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God you just have to love this board.

Person says that she wants it good from the factory. So then you've got posters saying Kahr pm9 cm9 blah blah blah.

Kahr have to be one of the most "repaired" pistols after keltec. Even Kahr says they "need to be broken in". Not exactly a superstar out of the box.

What a boatload of crap advice. Kahrs are really best for gun aficionados and people willing to do the tinkering they may need.

I wouldn't suggest a Kahr to an enemy. But I guess that's because I've seen about 10 of them fail.

Unreal.
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Old 11-04-2012, 16:51   #46
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But it does operate on blowback instead of recoil-operation, and maybe this is the reason both it and the Glock 25 can't be imported unless for LEOs.

But then you'd think you'd find a couple ex-LEOs selling theirs.

I've always wondered what the exact deal is.
The exact deal is that it doesn't meet the minimum number of import points the BATFE requires for it to be imported, largely because of the caliber.

The Glock 26 barely makes it in with the minimum 75 points.

Why would LEOs here have them? Same size as the 9mm models, probably more felt recoil due to being blow back, and more expensive ammo. Glock makes them for sale in countries where civilians can't have calibers used by police or military.

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Old 11-04-2012, 16:54   #47
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I shot the Beretta Nano yesterday, was really nice. As long as your wrist is locked and you don't limp wrist it.
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Old 11-04-2012, 19:44   #48
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LiebeGlock,
LOLz
I was just about to suggest the Nano!

I see you're in MI. Did you go to the bug match at 'Coon Hunters in Romulous? I shot another SO's Nano at the bug match and found it to be a really sweet shooter that pointed really well for me. Zeroed the "door" stage without using the sights. He paid under $500 for his, and there are 8 round mags available.

Joe
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Old 11-04-2012, 19:51   #49
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LiebeGlock,
LOLz
I was just about to suggest the Nano!

I see you're in MI. Did you go to the bug match at 'Coon Hunters in Romulous? I shot another SO's Nano at the bug match and found it to be a really sweet shooter that pointed really well for me. Zeroed the "door" stage without using the sights. He paid under $500 for his, and there are 8 round mags available.

Joe

Ha!!! LOL!!! Well, let me ask you something first, How did you like Wheat and Rye?

How ironic you found me on here!!!! What are the odds? It's a small world!!!!
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Old 11-04-2012, 19:56   #50
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I say see if the factory fixes it, if not, I'd try the Bodyguard or the LCP personally. Maybe we'll try a PPS as well
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