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Old 07-20-2011, 11:27   #26
Jerry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawmaker View Post
I will agree with the explosives experts argument. However the ATF in BATFE is not needing of a federal organization. ATF should be regulated by the states. In most cases they are already. How much money would the federal government save by disbanding BATFE? Why was it created in the first place? Was there anarchy before it's creation?
“The ATF was formerly part of the United States Department of the Treasury, having been formed in 1886 as the "Revenue Laboratory" within the Treasury Department's Bureau of Internal Revenue. The history of ATF can be subsequently traced to the time of the revenuers or "revenoors"[6] and the Bureau of Prohibition, which was formed as a unit of the Bureau of Internal Revenue in 1920, was made an independent agency within the Treasury Department in 1927, was transferred to the Justice Department in 1930, and became, briefly, a division of the FBI in 1933.

When the Volstead Act was repealed in December 1933, the Unit was transferred from the Department of Justice back to the Department of the Treasury where it became the Alcohol Tax Unit of the Bureau of Internal Revenue.”….. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_...and_Explosives
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:40   #27
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The BATFE exists to limit our 2A rights, period. You can spin it however you wish but at its core, that's the truth.
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Old 07-20-2011, 16:45   #28
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:07   #29
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Originally Posted by nelsone View Post
Well folks, my paranoid brethren, it appears you really were right: "Fast and Furious" truly does appear to have been all about creating a pretense for registering and controlling legal gun purchases inside the US.

http://news.yahoo.com/atf-require-gu...213420855.html

Now I'm no conspiracy type, and I dismissed out of hand all the talk about the "real reason" behind Operation Gunwalker. But I can't deny the information provided in this story:



So there you have it - first the ATF targets four states, a few weapons types, and multiple buys. Maybe we should start a pool about when the next step up the ratchet arrives, and which guns, states, and buyers will be targeted. For our safety and security, of course!
Another Unconstitutional move by the Omama administration bypassing Congress. Obama should be impeach for breaking the Constitutional laws so congress do your job or we will fire you in 2012.
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Old 12-26-2011, 20:25   #30
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The fact that you can get jammed on federal charges for adding a piece of plastic to your gun is pretty silly.

Defining this device as a SBR and requiring a $200 tax stamp (or ruining the life of anyone who makes a minor transgression of illogical rules) is exactly why gun owners hate/fear the ATF.
I can add several chemicals found in your home using your kitchen pots and pans and make an effective IED as well but I don't see people saying noone should regulate that.

Just because a process seems trivial, the end result is what is important and if it is illegal it is illegal and wrong, don't blame the BATFE for enforcing the laws they are sworn to protect.

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No wonder you are SO adamant about how necessary and good the BATF&E is. You sir were / are part of the problem
I am an adamant supporter of your legal right to own and use a legal firearm in a legal way

Quote:
The BATFE exists to limit our 2A rights, period. You can spin it however you wish but at its core, that's the truth.
I was (still am) sworn to uphold the Constitution of the US, the 2nd amendment is part of that. Read the above response of mine.

Quote:
They thought us that the ATF and FBI arenít to be trusted because they have no honor. They WILL kill you and your children if you donít cower down.

Iím glad to hear that youíve chuck the most dishonorable agency in favor of one that is a little more honorable.
I have a massive amount of honor, always have always will, and was employed as an Intern for the FBI during my college years and in the BATFE as a SA.

And my new agency is no more honorable then my last, I assure you.

I uphold/upheld the laws and Constitution of the United States during my employments with each. I promise, no one in the BATFE Special Agent corp wants to take away your 2nd amendment or trample the rights of LAWFUL gun owners.

Now as for all of that, I understand where all of your anger comes from since you are only hearing about the BATFE's failures, not all of its successes. I hope everyone had a merry christmas, or a happy whatever you celebrate .
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Old 12-26-2011, 23:42   #31
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You support what BATF&E has done. You have failed to support the Constitution. Show me where the Constitution grants the BATF&E the power to break the law by selling firearms to criminals/enemies of this country. Show me where the Constitution grants BATF&E the power to write rules that infringe on our 2nd. Amendment right. Show me where the Constitution grants BATF&E agents the power to lie in court and to congress. I watched them lie in congressional hearings both about what happened at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Try to defend being a BATF&E agent anyway you will. The truth is out there for anyone willing to look for it. You canít deny the truth and buy showing your support you prove you were part of the problem. You have failed to keep your oath.
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:30   #32
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Jerry, I have only one question because without putting you in the Bureau for a day with a TS/SCI and Need to Know there is no way to change your warped view of the BATFE. Would you support getting rid of every branch of government and every agency thereof?

Because the history of each has been paved with lies to congress and deceit, agencies make mistakes, operations take high risk to yield the high rewards needed to put them in a positive spotlight.

Quote:
I watched them lie in congressional hearings both about what happened at Waco and Ruby Ridge.
One of my good friends was there, his response to that statement would be, and this is a paraphrased quote, "Well hell, they shoulda called me to testify in front of Congress I woulda only made one short statement: 'We went there to execute a lawful arrest for David willfully and blatantly breaking the law, they shot first, after day 1 four of my buddies lay dead. You can't kill a Federal Agent I, and the commanders tend to take that seriously Mr. Chairman, what did you want us to do, say hey Mr. Crazy man thanks for the shower of bullets we're going to turn tail and run now bye'."

Don't ever confuse the politically motivated drivel seen in Congressional hearings for the real BATFE, and don't view them (us) as monsters because of it.

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Show me where the Constitution grants BATF&E the power to write rules that infringe on our 2nd. Amendment right.
Congress does under the Bureau's ability to write the Code of Federal Regulations, Firearms control just happens to be one of the areas the BATFE enforces.


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You canít deny the truth and buy showing your support you prove you were part of the problem. You have failed to keep your oath.
You have it confused again, your anger should be directed at the political appointees (which consists of the Director and AG), not the Special Agents.
Everyday that I went to work I protected YOUR 2nd Amendment right (I assume your a lawful and legal firearms owner and user). Everyone I worked with put their lives on the line right next to mine to do the exact same, please do not slander us over the Directors politics sir.

You can have whatever opinions on the AG or Director or Executive Branch as a whole that you want, but don't take it out in broad strokes against the BATFE as a whole, the United States is safer with it then without it, trust me on that one.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:01   #33
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I swore an oath to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic."

Every BATFE agent, by the very fact of their employment in that evil agency, is breaking their oath of office, and will one day have to answer to the Almighty for breaking that oath.

I take my oath seriously. And BATFE agents are ENEMIES OF THE CONSTITUTION. Period.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:28   #34
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Originally Posted by blk69stang View Post
I swore an oath to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic."

Every BATFE agent, by the very fact of their employment in that evil agency, is breaking their oath of office, and will one day have to answer to the Almighty for breaking that oath.

I take my oath seriously. And BATFE agents are ENEMIES OF THE CONSTITUTION. Period.
I helped keep Explosives out of the hands of terrorists, I was sent overseas to help the US Army better disarm IED's for 2 months, I'm pretty sure I helped the Constitution more then I hurt her. But I see your point, I really actually dont though.
Have you ever met a BATFE agent? I promise they're really nice 2nd Amendment loving people.
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Old 12-27-2011, 13:11   #35
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FearTheBoomAndBust, I don't have time to respond right now but I promise I will before the nights out. Quick answer to your first question though. Yes I’ve met three agents. One was very nice. Two were real A-HOLES. But then I personally new a Federal Marshals and he and two others that I met turned out to be A-Holes. My opinion hasn’t been formed because of things I’ve been told by others, it's been formed through first had experience and what I’ve see with my own eyes. I understand there are good and bad in everything. Problem is BATF&E is being run by the bad and the bad are running wild and the good do nothing about it. In your case you left so I give you credit for that.

Gotta go, late for work! Back later.
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Old 12-27-2011, 16:09   #36
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Originally Posted by FearTheBoomAndBust View Post
Jerry, I have only one question because without putting you in the Bureau for a day with a TS/SCI and Need to Know there is no way to change your warped view of the BATFE. Would you support getting rid of every branch of government and every agency thereof?
My warped view tells me any agency that’s primary function is enforcing unconstitutional law should be abolished or at least put into check (bound by the chains of the Constitution). If the ATF were put into check it could no longer function so it may as well be abolished.

You have stated, paraphrasing here, that you swore an oath to uphold the constitution and then you stated that you only enforce the law. Most of what ATF does is enforce unconstitutional (“shall not be infringed”) law. So which is it? You enforce the law or you uphold the Constitution?

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Originally Posted by FearTheBoomAndBust View Post
Because the history of each has been paved with lies to congress and deceit, agencies make mistakes, operations take high risk to yield the high rewards needed to put them in a positive spotlight.
See! Here is where “HONOR” is proven or lost. You believe because other agencies have lied it’s ok. So much for honor.

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Originally Posted by FearTheBoomAndBust View Post
One of my good friends was there, his response to that statement would be, and this is a paraphrased quote, "Well hell, they shoulda called me to testify in front of Congress I woulda only made one short statement: 'We went there to execute a lawful arrest for David willfully and blatantly breaking the law, they shot first, after day 1 four of my buddies lay dead. You can't kill a Federal Agent I, and the commanders tend to take that seriously Mr. Chairman, what did you want us to do, say hey Mr. Crazy man thanks for the shower of bullets we're going to turn tail and run now bye'."
Your “good” friend is exactly the type of agent that makes BATF as bad as it is. Your praise of what he would have done and want the BATF did prove how bad the mindset of BATF agents is.

And what law did Kersh brake? Are you talking unconstitutional law about automatic weapons? Or is it that he didn’t pay the unconstitutional Tax. And what happened to “ALL” those automatic weapons. Seems they just disappeared didn’t they?

We all know Kersh went jogging every morning ALONE down a DESERTED dirt road. An arrest could have very easily been made then if all that was wanted was an arrest. BATF wanted to make a point. They know there would be a gun fight so they went in and did exactly want they wanted.

And what of the “children” they supposedly wanted to save from a fait worse than death. They burned them all alive. Very honorable! Now they either did that on purpose or it shows just how stupid BATF agents really are. I’m going with on purpose.

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Originally Posted by FearTheBoomAndBust View Post
Don't ever confuse the politically motivated drivel seen in Congressional hearings for the real BATFE, and don't view them (us) as monsters because of it.
Oh, I don’t view you as monsters because of that. I view you as monsters for what was done a Waco, Ruby Ridge and in many home invasions. The view I gained from the congressional hearings are that all involved, from the top to the bottom are liars and have no honor and that those that weren’t involved support lying murderers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FearTheBoomAndBust View Post
Congress does under the Bureau's ability to write the Code of Federal Regulations, Firearms control just happens to be one of the areas the BATFE enforces.
The Constitution does not grant congress the power to grant power to write “code” that is enforces as law to individual agencies. The “code” is unconstitutional on two fronts. It's unconstitutional for BATF to make law/code and the code itself in unconstitutional because it’s in direct defiance of the 2nd. Amendment.


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Originally Posted by FearTheBoomAndBust View Post
You have it confused again, your anger should be directed at the political appointees (which consists of the Director and AG), not the Special Agents.
First it isn’t anger it’s disgust. I hold everyone you have mentioned in disgust. Every time I hear a law informant agent try to blame what they do on others it rings of Hitler’s disciples. We were/are only following orders.

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Originally Posted by FearTheBoomAndBust View Post
Everyday that I went to work I protected YOUR 2nd Amendment right (I assume your a lawful and legal firearms owner and user). Everyone I worked with put their lives on the line right next to mine to do the exact same, please do not slander us over the Directors politics sir.
Yes I’m a law abiding and legal firearms owner. I have jumped through all the unconstitutional hoops. I hold a CCW and city Commission. Will that stop me from having a visit after posting what I have? God only knows. What I do know is that if an agent is order to kick in my door he will NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

I do not slander over the directors policies. I admonish over the willful following of his orders and willful support of liars and murderers.

If I had sold guns to criminals/terrorists/drug cartels and those guns, no let’s say one gun, had killed one American, god forbid if that American were law informant, I would be imprisoned for the rest of my life. What has/will happen to all BATF members, including the Attorneys General and the Director, involved? The same thing that happened to those involved in Waco and Ruby Ridge. Maybe, just maybe a slap on the wrist while all of the BATF pats them on the back and congregates them for getting away with it.

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Originally Posted by FearTheBoomAndBust View Post
You can have whatever opinions on the AG or Director or Executive Branch as a whole that you want, but don't take it out in broad strokes against the BATFE as a whole, the United States is safer with it then without it, trust me on that one.
I supposed what was done to the Jews and other prisoners of war should not have been taken out on those that preformed the acts? After all it was Hitler and the SS’s fault right? All the war criminals were just innocent dupes. Give me a F-ing brake!

If anyone has a warped sense of view here it’s the insider trying to defend the criminals in the BATF. If you want to place blame don't look to the AG or the Director just look in the merror.

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"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. What I can do, I should do and, with the help of God, I will do! [Everett Hale]
You should pay particular attention to those quotes since the concept seems to have eluded you.
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Old 12-27-2011, 16:40   #37
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Jerry, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go to law school, learn what is constitutional or unconstitutional and what all of that really means.

If what the BATFE does is all so "illegal" why hasn't the SCOTUS done anything?

And don't you ever compare me, my former co-workers, or my former agency to Hitler or the SS, I don't care if saying this gets me baned, so be it! DON'T YOU DARE USE THOSE COMPARISONS EVER PERIOD. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

I upheld the firearms laws of the United States, if you don't like those laws too damn bad, call your Congressman don't blame the BATFE.

As for the legality of the CFR, in both agencies, current and former, it is lawful to use according to the SCOTUS, Legislature, and Executive branch.

Lawyers, Judges, and Legal Scholars, know much more about the actual Constitution and law then either of us, and they have proven all of the BATFE's enforcement laws constitutional and valid.

As for Ruby Ridge and Waco, refer to my other post in this forum.

Now if you will excuse me I'm mad as hell, and I have to get back to work from my break. Or wait, no all the laws I'm planning on enforcing are "illegal" and anti-constitutional since they are in the CFR, USC, and Acts of Congress, not the Constitution....
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Old 12-27-2011, 18:10   #38
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Donít need law school to understand ďshall not be infringedĒ.

The Scots are doing something about it. Have you seen the recent rulings against DC and Chicago? First the case has to get to the Scots. Then they have to agree to hear it. I'm sure what the BATF has/is doing will eventually be heard.

Iíll compare you and the rest of BATF to anyone I wish. Or perhaps youíd like to violate the 1st. also. You came here and defend what they have done. They murdered innocent children in the name of teaching the peons a lesson. We learned a very good lesson. You and your ilk have no honor and will follow orders without question even it if kills children. BATF sold firearms to our enemies and that enemy used those firearms to killed American law enforcement agents in America. Donít like what I have to say, too bad. You came here and put your .02 worth in and expect us to just read and agree? Or perhaps you're used to flashing a badge and having people cower down. Ainít gonna happen here.

Youíre worried about being banned. Iíll go you one better. Iím worried about having my door kicked in, evidence being planted and never seeing the light of day again because of speaking the truth.


Until the Congress changes the Constitution anything done without power being granted by the Constitution is still unconstitutional. 1st. Congress shall make no law. That means I can voice my disapproval of any government agency and its agents. 2nd. ďShall not be infringedĒ means any law/code, regardless what the Scots have or havenít ruled is unconstitutional.

Youíre mad as hell? Good! Too bad you didnít get mad as hell at you brethren in the BATF when they were breaking the law. Donít even try telling me selling arms to known enemies of this country is legal. Funny how law enforcement, particularly BATF believes they are above the law when it comes to commiting criminal acts under the pretense of catching criminals.

Iíd love to hear how you were ďprotectingĒ my 2nd. Amendment rights by violating the rights of others. Please explain that fable to me.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:07   #39
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Jerry, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go to law school, learn what is constitutional or unconstitutional and what all of that really means.
What do you dispute? Because the BATFE and the things they do are beyond the scope of powers granted to the federal government in our constitution and hence UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Quote:
If what the BATFE does is all so "illegal" why hasn't the SCOTUS done anything?
Because your bosses are in bed with politicians who have an agenda and several members of SCOTUS have the same agenda.

Quote:
And don't you ever compare me, my former co-workers, or my former agency to Hitler or the SS, I don't care if saying this gets me baned, so be it! DON'T YOU DARE USE THOSE COMPARISONS EVER PERIOD. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and ****s like a duck...

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I upheld the firearms laws of the United States, if you don't like those laws too damn bad, call your Congressman don't blame the BATFE.
Personally, I blame all of you. "I was just following orders!" didn't work for the Nazis, it doesn't work for the cops, and it won't work for you. At least not in my book.

Quote:
As for the legality of the CFR, in both agencies, current and former, it is lawful to use according to the SCOTUS, Legislature, and Executive branch.
Not according to me. And I assert that they have an AGENDA which has influenced their decisions.
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:29   #40
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:35   #41
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So since the BATFE is simply requiring FFL's to submit names of those engaging in suspicious purchases so the BATFE can catalog them in a inter-agency database your going to lose your rights to buy a firearm legally, this new policy in no way limits that ability.

As for the title of this thread, the BATFE simply enforces the United States Code, and as an executive agency works to enforce actions of the United States Executive Office, the Presidency. The BATFE does not and cannot unilaterally create and or impose new laws.

What you imagine the BATFE is going to do when it "ratchets up" the restrictions cannot be done by the BATFE or the USDOJ alone.

And finally:


The BATFE simply does not want to do that (I can confidently state that) and is not attempting to create a pretense for it. I can personally assure you that 90%+ of BATFE employees, specifically the Special Agents and people in "management" love and support the 2nd amendment and the legal ownership of firearms as much if not more then you personally do.

I truly apologize if at any point I sounded condescending or rambling, if there is anything else you wish to discuss on this topic just respond. There is a lot of misconceptions about the majority of what the BATFE does and stands for.

As always, stay safe
You can keep your head in isolation and believe what you want, but the BATFE is not your friendly neighborhood beat cop and they truly deserve to be abolished, with several of all levels spending some time being introduced to "Bubba" at whatever penitentiary they are assigned to serve their time.
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:37   #42
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As for the title of this thread, the BATFE simply enforces the United States Code, and as an executive agency works to enforce actions of the United States Executive Office, the Presidency. The BATFE does not and cannot unilaterally create and or impose new laws.
Administrative agencies frequently create new laws. It may be called "rule-making" but the fact that rule-making can make formerly legal activities into crimes or civil wrongs makes administrative agency "rule-making" a de facto creation and imposition of new laws.
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:59   #43
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The ATF is the worst most rouge agency of the federal government and should be done away with. Next youíll tell me they didnít sell guns to the Mexican cartels that were used to kill federal agents. BATF&E makes up the rules as the go along.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:11   #44
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Jerry, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go to law school, learn what is constitutional or unconstitutional and what all of that really means.

If what the BATFE does is all so "illegal" why hasn't the SCOTUS done anything?

And don't you ever compare me, my former co-workers, or my former agency to Hitler or the SS, I don't care if saying this gets me baned, so be it! DON'T YOU DARE USE THOSE COMPARISONS EVER PERIOD. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

I upheld the firearms laws of the United States, if you don't like those laws too damn bad, call your Congressman don't blame the BATFE.

As for the legality of the CFR, in both agencies, current and former, it is lawful to use according to the SCOTUS, Legislature, and Executive branch.

Lawyers, Judges, and Legal Scholars, know much more about the actual Constitution and law then either of us, and they have proven all of the BATFE's enforcement laws constitutional and valid.

As for Ruby Ridge and Waco, refer to my other post in this forum.

Now if you will excuse me I'm mad as hell, and I have to get back to work from my break. Or wait, no all the laws I'm planning on enforcing are "illegal" and anti-constitutional since they are in the CFR, USC, and Acts of Congress, not the Constitution....
Dear FearTheBoom&Bust:

Being unfamiliar with your 'other post in this forum', regarding the issue of Waco, please read, consider and correct or modify any misinformation you may find in the following missive on the subject of the monstrous cataclysm at Waco, Texas, commencing 19 April 1993:


Tolerance Threshold Expansion, continued:

Consider the rogue government and salted media-declared 'mass suicide' (publicly telecast murder of all the immediate witnesses to the rogue government, 51 day televised siege and attack: 'This is not an attack on your compound!') Waco, Tx., 19 April 1993.

They lied on live television ('This is not an attack!') about the armored vehicle crashing through the wall and piercing the propane storage tank, instantly filling the windswept compound with flammable gas (easily ignited by any spark, pilot light or round of tracer) and tactfully cutting off the only escape route (having had and studied a detailed floor plan of the compound for nearly two months. this was not an 'accident'); murdering all but a few of the nearly one hundred occupants, but, they 'didn't lie' about who fired the first shot when it all began fifty one days earlier ('David Koresh did it').

"There will be no coverups in this administration' - Janet Reno, the day after the catastrophic burning of the ‘Branch Davidian compound’, 4/19/’93.

The record is not here to defend David Koresh, on the other hand, nearly one hundred innocent people including several dozen children were pinned down for nearly two months in ‘the compound’. Their electricity and water was cut off, helicopters hovered overhead playing loud music through the night: knowing there were dozens of children, with as many innocent parents, in that trapped community. Culminating in the perishment of all but a few survivors, after 51 days of siege.

‘The best the ATF could do.’
Without intervention from a higher authority.

After the situation became known to the nation via television, radio and the press, then ‘rumors’ - and contrived ‘testimonies’ - began to circulate about David Koresh having intimate relationships with underage adolescent girls. It is noteworthy that this demonisation - the allegations about David Koresh and underage children, did not become an issue until the siege was nationally televised and reported.

The original reason for the ATF going to the compound, was to question two individual men about whether they were legally in possession of firearms or not. ‘Cult leader’ Koresh’s alleged relationships with underage girls was not an issue at all; neither was he ever legally charged with, let alone convicted of any such behavior.

A social worker, or routinely assigned sheriff’s deputy could have been dispatched to question the two subjected men at issue. The two men the ATF wanted to question, routinely left the compound to jog and run errands. Instead, the ATF chose to pin nearly a hundred people (*with the exception of approximately seven survivors, the fates of which are unknown to this record) down in their residence, on private property. Had those people survived, it is likely that they all would have served as witnesses to who fired shots at whom, first. So, apparently for this reason (and publicly 'educational', exemplary'pay-back'), *all of the witnesses were perished by a fire deliberately started by the rogue ATF and the rogue F.B.I. - each, and both of these presiding agencies disallowing incumbent fire-men - and their abundant fire-fighting equipment at the site, from taking action; whereupon the the two cited 'agencies' heinously proclaimed the ensuing conflagration to be a ‘mass suicide’ - perishing the witnesses to what started the siege in the first place.

(Why is the record issuing this subject now? Because: it happened, with impunity, and, it can - therefore - happen again. Witness 'Fast & Furious', while no heads rolled...)

Refer the film - and video - 'WACO: The Rules Of Engagement. The New York Times called it “.. a doozy of an investigative expose!” Siskel & Ebert gave it ‘two thumbs up!’ The video jacket reads: “WACO: The Rules Of Engagement, is the story of federal law enforcement gone tragically wrong. It shows how the F.B.I. (and the ATF) repeatedly lied to the public and American political leaders in order to focus overwhelming deadly force on a group whose diversity of race, national origin and religious beliefs made them easy targets for a lethal abuse of its members’ civil and human rights."

TIME magazine’s 24 July 1995 front page and feature article called the Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms law enforcement agency: ‘The most hated federal law enforcement agency in the U.S.’.

The nation that will witness this and be sheepishly persuaded that what it saw and heard wasn't what was heard and seen: is looking at it's own blazing, windswept, rogue-government-quarantined future. Squared. Including the knowing, willfully extended torture and immolation of dozens of children.

This dissertation is not interested in ‘system busting’, or contention with elements of law enforcement. The record is a staunch system-protector, an avid law enforcement advocate and ally...

On the other hand, here are somber arguments with assigned authorities who patently betray their oaths of office; abuse their power, compounding this abuse by covering up their transgressions, blaming innocent people, and lying to the public and key representatives of the American government and protectors of the - much revered - U.S. Constitution (and their forthright fellow officers) about the cited abuse of power(s).

Addendum:
Your signature nombre de plume *"FearTheBoomAndBust" speaks volumes antithetical to the verity of perhaps a dozen or so leaders of the American Revolution, addressing 'We the people' and those individuals and institutions installed by the 'We the people', that the government should fear the people, rather than the converse - which your very *signature directly implies: tantamount to *terrorism, which your institution heinously and unforgettably demonstrated (with the world - literally - as witness) - for 51 exemplary, undeniably terrorist saturated days, in Waco, Texas; commencing 19 April 1993.

RSVP - Looking forward to your 'corrections', Mr. FearBoomBust.

Sincere best regards to all peaceful participants,
(Pilamaya-Thank You-Tiospaye - extended family)
- Arapaho, aka, Lakota Tatanka.
Ordained Chaplain; liaison with *A.I.M.
*American Indian Movement

Post Script:

In the fairly recent past the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms), was 'modified' with the word 'Bureau' - the agency was previously known - and identified itself as - 'Alcohol, Tobbaco & Firearms - the 'ATF'.

Just as the initials 'PC' were recently introduced to the American vocabulary: not as 'Partly cloudy', or, 'Personal Computer', but instead, now meaning 'politically correct' - a non-sequiter/oxymoron (self-contradiction) in two words, i.e., enhancing the muddied word of 'politics' with the 'spin-doctored', hyphenated word of 'correct', that is to say, 'political'-correctness'. Likewise, the former self-identified "A.T.F." 'promoted' itself with added term, "Bureau'.
'

Reason for editing:
Addition of Post Script; content, and the noteworthy - however temporary - 'silence', orbiting this inescapable, empirically
documented
post:
fortifying the OP's venerable commencement of what simply proves to be an illuminating thread.

Last edited by Lakota; 07-31-2012 at 00:26.. Reason: Please refer to the above allowance of more space.
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Old 08-05-2012, 19:09   #45
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The BATFE exists to limit our 2A rights, period. You can spin it however you wish but at its core, that's the truth.
Yup, and the BATF is perfectly justified in doing so according to interpretation of the Second Amendment by SCOTUS in Heller vs D.C..
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Old 08-05-2012, 19:36   #46
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:51   #47
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The ATF is the worst most rouge agency of the federal government and should be done away with. Next youíll tell me they didnít sell guns to the Mexican cartels that were used to kill federal agents. BATF&E makes up the rules as the go along.
just who do you think was behind the Fast & Furious scheme ?
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:50   #48
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Since when does the ATF make laws? Unless the power to make "regulations" is given them by Congress, the regulation is unenforceable.

Also, since when did a government SCREWUP with deadly consequences, be cause to make regulations for the populace at large? Perhaps the regulations should be within their own house instead of mine.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:29   #49
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Since when does the ATF make laws? Unless the power to make "regulations" is given them by Congress, the regulation is unenforceable.

Also, since when did a government SCREWUP with deadly consequences, be cause to make regulations for the populace at large? Perhaps the regulations should be within their own house instead of mine.
I can't give you dates of when it happened but I can tell you that Congress has "relinquished it's power", granted powers to MAKE UP REGULATIONS to the BATF&E, EPA, TSA and etc. etc. We now have unelected, appointed puppets and renegades MAKING UP REGULATIONS... LAWS enforceable and punishable under penalty fine and or imprisonment.
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Old 10-28-2012, 14:33   #50
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I can't give you dates of when it happened but I can tell you that Congress has "relinquished it's power", granted powers to MAKE UP REGULATIONS to the BATF&E, EPA, TSA and etc. etc. We now have unelected, appointed puppets and renegades MAKING UP REGULATIONS... LAWS enforceable and punishable under penalty fine and or imprisonment.
I keep jumping up and down trying to tell people that things like the open bolt MAC10s were "outlawed" by "executive decision" inside the BATFE because they were "too easily converted to full auto". No law was passed by Congress, no initiative petition, just someone behind a desk saying "make it so" There is no mechanism, other than letters of complaint that put the writer "on the radar", no oversight, no official appeal, no accountability.

All it would take, from Obama, would be a memo to the BATFE chief and suddenly AK-47s would be "too easily converted". Try to tell people that and it falls on deaf ears.

I have mentioned it in a dozen threads and no one even aknowledges reading it.
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