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Old 10-24-2012, 08:50   #151
Slateman
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So no one has done any studies of the most recent stuff?
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Old 10-24-2012, 16:15   #152
ennis
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double post
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Last edited by ennis; 10-24-2012 at 16:17..
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Old 10-24-2012, 16:23   #153
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Double Tap 200gr WFNGC and 230gr WFNGC
The 10 Ring
The 10 Ring
The 10 Ring



The 200gr were from lot #007400, the 230gr from lot #007383. I bought 3 boxes in 2011. I contacted Double Tap last week and they sent one free box of Nosler 200gr jhp (I requested a non-cast load). The email from Rhett McNett, simply said, "thanks for calling it to our attention..we'll send you a box of ammo for your inconvenience. The problem has been taken care of" I am a long time DT customer. This is the first time there has been a significant problem. As someone on the cast boolits forum said, "if something this obvious got past them, who knows what is happening with less obvious probs." (I'm paraphrasing).

BTW. this sort of casting phoobah is caused by casting in a cold mold. Someone else viewing the photos thought that the change of color midway down the case could be from putting the loaded rounds through a resizing die. I am very far from understanding the fine points of ammo loading so, I don't know. I do know that seeing these has me concerned about what I buy from Double Tap.

The replacement ammo (Nosler jhp) NOT look too good, unless the weird stuff inside the hollow point is actually Russian caviar. The 10 Ring

(The fuzzy yellow around the bullet is just some micro fiber cloth that I wrapped the cartridge to help hold it for the picture).

Last edited by cadjak; 11-01-2012 at 22:26..
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Old 10-24-2012, 16:31   #154
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I've never been a fan of Double Tap. Bought from them once, years ago. Never again.
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Old 10-24-2012, 19:12   #155
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I have personally had good results with the component WFNGCs from DT. They have been consistently sized and uniform weight. The only knock I have seen is the occasional inconsistent lube on a few of the bullets where part was missing.

Obviously there is some inconsistent QC over there. How a bullet like that could pass through to the customer unnoticed is baffling to me. First, no one noticed during casting. Then nobody bothered to notice during loading into ammo, or afterwards during packaging? Wow.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:29   #156
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Quote:
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I certainly wouldn't buy anything from DT and expect performance such as what was tested 7+ years ago.

But then gelatin results aren't the whole story anyway, even when they are currently relevant.
Calibrated gelatin is the only qualitative, empirical, and most importantly, standardized, measurement of terminal performance available.

I think Intercooler might have had some DT that he was planning to send for the next batch of tests, but that could be some time. He sent me a LOT of ammo to work through.
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Old 02-27-2013, 21:10   #157
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That looks like some CRAP Ammo! Mike McNett's? Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadjak View Post
Double Tap 200gr WFNGC and 230gr WFNGC
The 10 Ring
The 10 Ring
The 10 Ring



The 200gr were from lot #007400, the 230gr from lot #007383. I bought 3 boxes in 2011. I contacted Double Tap last week and they sent one free box of Nosler 200gr jhp (I requested a non-cast load). The email from Rhett McNett, simply said, "thanks for calling it to our attention..we'll send you a box of ammo for your inconvenience. The problem has been taken care of" I am a long time DT customer. This is the first time there has been a significant problem. As someone on the cast boolits forum said, "if something this obvious got past them, who knows what is happening with less obvious probs." (I'm paraphrasing).

BTW. this sort of casting phoobah is caused by casting in a cold mold. Someone else viewing the photos thought that the change of color midway down the case could be from putting the loaded rounds through a resizing die. I am very far from understanding the fine points of ammo loading so, I don't know. I do know that seeing these has me concerned about what I buy from Double Tap.

The replacement ammo (Nosler jhp) NOT look too good, unless the weird stuff inside the hollow point is actually Russian caviar. The 10 Ring

(The fuzzy yellow around the bullet is just some micro fiber cloth that I wrapped the cartridge to help hold it for the picture).
Wow, now that's some CRAP ammo. What is going on with Double Tap? 10mm and .45ACP stuff I've bought from Mike several years ago was above average for factory loadings and a little slower in velocity than advertised, but those castings are crap. Now you wonder what's wrong with the stuff in the case too. I still have some 200 grain WFNGC in10mm that were/are decent. I don't think I'd shoot those though! Quality Control ignored a few too many lots.
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Old 02-27-2013, 21:12   #158
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Wow, now that's some CRAP ammo. What is going on with Double Tap?
This should not be a surprise.
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Old 02-28-2013, 17:27   #159
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You know what double tap should probably do....



Close
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:37   #160
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As is often the case in business, ego seems to be getting in the way. All he needs to do is issue a lame apology and change the numbers on the box flap. The ammo is still hotter than most, though not as good as Underwood. People would buy his stuff if he wasn't an arrogant jackass. As it is it looks like his company will go under before he cops to what he did.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:49   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggin View Post
As is often the case in business, ego seems to be getting in the way. All he needs to do is issue a lame apology and change the numbers on the box flap. The ammo is still hotter than most, though not as good as Underwood. People would buy his stuff if he wasn't an arrogant jackass. As it is it looks like his company will go under before he cops to what he did.
You're probably right although he should also lower his prices...

He has lost a literal ton of business to Underwood already.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:20   #162
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I agree but I think he could still stay in business even at the inflated prices if he was just honest.
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Old 03-06-2013, 20:21   #163
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Any way you slice it, Mike McNett helped to move the 10MM Auto cartridge forward in popularity and power. Times were getting pretty bleak there for those in search of Norma power levels back in the day. Folks were thinking the .40 S&W would supplant the 10MM when Mike picked up the torch.

His initial cartridges using Starline Brass were well made and consistent. His case discount made it attractively priced then too. Forum members were buying more and more with good reports. Then he got his own stamped nickel plated cases and to me that product coupled with the 200 grain XTP was a good reason to stop searching for the right 10MM round and just load up the truck. I've shot thousands of completely reliable rounds from that era and absolutely could not be happier with the round.

Another thing worth considering I think. In business it is common that initial set prices rise as time passes and the owner gets a truer picture of what his true costs are. Furthermore it is common in businesses like this that have fairly low cost of entry that new guys are frequently joining the market at low and likely unsustainable prices because they still don't know the full magnitude of their costs.

I'm sorry to see some of these recent issues and hopefully changes will be implemented to get back the QC of the not so distant past. It's not like us shooters are exactly flush with choices for 10MM, Mike has done good for the round and I hope he sticks around for a long time.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:11   #164
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Why are the 200gr noslers missing advertised velocity when ran through a 6" hunter barrel and around 100-150fps slower from a 4.6" barrel than advertised?
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:13   #165
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Mag360, DT used to load ammunition to the claimed velocities but several years ago, they reduced the loads and never changed the claims. Underwood, Buffalo Bore, and a few other companies make ammunition that meets their claims.

Take a look at this spreadsheet. It gives tested specs on quite a few 10mm loads. Just click on the bullet weight to see loads in that weight range.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...owsperpage=250
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Old 08-28-2013, 16:31   #166
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thanks! I have that spreadsheet too. I've added some of pat Quinn's (gunblast.com) testing in as well with his 6.3" barrel and a couple other various loads he has done.
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Old 08-28-2013, 16:59   #167
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Great! Intercooler put it together with data gathered from his tests, Shadow's, and my own.
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Old 02-13-2014, 17:52   #168
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So on their website they list hollow points but not a manufacturer. Who do they buy from?
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Old 02-13-2014, 18:30   #169
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So on their website they list hollow points but not a manufacturer. Who do they buy from?
They were called down on using the trademark names by Speer namely Gold Dot...now they are referred to as "bonded defense".
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Old 02-13-2014, 18:43   #170
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I don't wish anything ill toward DT, I also credit McNett with helping revitalize the 10mm, along with offering some uptempo loads in in other otherwise watered down calibers.
Still, I'm also disappointed with exaggerative claims that don't jive with the chrono and I have experienced that myself using the .44sp load from 3 guns over the chrono.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:55   #171
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Are they still being exaggerated? It's been 9 years since this thread was started. Have they not addressed the issue?
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