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Old 10-14-2012, 16:37   #21
unit1069
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Originally Posted by avenues165 View Post
I think the 9mm is a fine choice for SD, as is the 357sig, .40s&w, 10mm, 45gap, 45acp, 357 mag, etc. But, none of them are the same. They are all different for different applications, preferences, etc.

It would be boring if they were all the same. I like options!

Of course. The caliber choices for me depend on the purpose I need it for and I do wonder why so many people --- after having chosen a perfectly adequate caliber --- give in to some anxiety over whether or not they picked the "right" one.

I'm not a hunter but if I was I would need a pistol of a different caliber from the two primary handgun calibers I own. That is, if I was ever inclined to hunt with a handgun.
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Old 10-15-2012, 00:03   #22
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Of course. The caliber choices for me depend on the purpose I need it for and I do wonder why so many people --- after having chosen a perfectly adequate caliber --- give in to some anxiety over whether or not they picked the "right" one.

I'm not a hunter but if I was I would need a pistol of a different caliber from the two primary handgun calibers I own. That is, if I was ever inclined to hunt with a handgun.
You are right.

I figure I have the perfect cartridges FOR ME to choose in my Glocks, 357 sig and .40 s&w. They both have worked well for SD with proper loads. I can go with the 125gr 357 sig for most things since I shoot it a little better than the .40. There are a few circumstances where I think a .40 is the better choice FOR ME. I switch out the barrel and load up .40S&W.

I just don't think all of the service cartridges are the same. And I'm not necessarily talking about their ability to stop. One may penetrate barriers better than another. One may have less recoil than another. One may have a platform that is preferred. One may be better from short barrels. Etc.
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:25   #23
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With the modern +P and +P+ loads available for the 9mm, I don't see the need nor any benefit in the .357 Sig over the 9mm.

The cost of the .357 Sig alone is a major turn off and I'm willing to bet there isn't enough of a difference in the real world in terminal effectiveness between the 9mm +P+ Winchester 127 grain and the hottest 125 grain JHP loads in the .357 Sig.

Anyone want to put forth any real credible data to prove this one way or another?

I'd be willing to be the difference isn't as large as the .357 Sig fan boys would like to think it is.
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Old 10-15-2012, 18:37   #24
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With the modern +P and +P+ loads available for the 9mm, I don't see the need nor any benefit in the .357 Sig over the 9mm.

The cost of the .357 Sig alone is a major turn off and I'm willing to bet there isn't enough of a difference in the real world in terminal effectiveness between the 9mm +P+ Winchester 127 grain and the hottest 125 grain JHP loads in the .357 Sig.

Anyone want to put forth any real credible data to prove this one way or another?

I'd be willing to be the difference isn't as large as the .357 Sig fan boys would like to think it is.
Another advantage of the 9x19 is that there are more of them. My G17 holds 18.
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Old 10-15-2012, 20:02   #25
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Seeing the results from hunting I just really can't buy the penetration only argument, even with handguns. You have to have the penetration, but achieve the same penetration with a higher velocity and different things seem to happen. Gel, while a good way to compare loads, seems to be too homogenized to capture the damage that occurs.

Regarding cost, I can plink with 357 sig at the same price as I can with .40. More expensive than 9mm, but cheaper than .45acp.

I like it and I'll stick with it.
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Old 10-15-2012, 22:48   #26
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I used to love the .357Sig guns. In fact I had up to 5 of them at one time. Moslty glocks and sigs. I have since replaced them with 9mm and .40 versions. Reason is simple... if I want fast and light a 9mm +p++ out of a G34 give me all the speed and rounds I could ask for. The .40 versions give me a heavy bullet. in the 180 grain. If I want more than that I say go for a .45acp or a 10mm.
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Old 10-16-2012, 19:13   #27
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I used to love the .357Sig guns. In fact I had up to 5 of them at one time. Moslty glocks and sigs. I have since replaced them with 9mm and .40 versions. Reason is simple... if I want fast and light a 9mm +p++ out of a G34 give me all the speed and rounds I could ask for. The .40 versions give me a heavy bullet. in the 180 grain. If I want more than that I say go for a .45acp or a 10mm.
+p++? Is that a typo?
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Old 10-16-2012, 20:08   #28
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I'm just not a fan of the 357 Sig. Just not.

For decades people wanted SOMETHING between 9mm and 45 ACP - give them the 10mm Auto and 40 S&W, but they're not happy. So what's the next GREAT thing? Neck down the 40 S&W so we can have the reduced magazine capacity of the 40 S&W with the smaller bullet of the 9mm - OUTSTANDING! Really? Aren't we kind of re-inventing the wheel? 38 Super Comp seems like a better solution - just because of magazine capacity.

It just seems a bit odd.

Now that said... the 357 Sig is a fine round. Nothing WRONG with it. The thing that makes me "not a fan" is there is a lot of hype about it - "flat shooting", "unbelievable manstopper", etc.

With proper bullet selection there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between 9mm, 357 SIG, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. Shot placement with any of them will get the job done. Each caliber has advantages and DISADVANTAGES. Choose any caliber you want, but understand your decision has compromises.
This is the correct answer.
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Old 10-16-2012, 22:40   #29
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SCmasterblaster, yes that was a typo, I held down the + button too long. Should have read +P+.
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Old 10-17-2012, 13:22   #30
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SCmasterblaster, yes that was a typo, I held down the + button too long. Should have read +P+.
OK, no problem.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:04   #31
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I am going to make the assumption that you will be using a glock. With that said if you buy a 9mm you can only shoot 9mm. If you buy a 40 or 357sig you can shoot the other with just a barrel swap. You can also shoot 9mm with a conversion barrel and the right mags. I would recommend you buy a 40 with the two extra barrels and some 9mm mags. I only say the 40 because if you want to sell the gun in the future it is a lot easier to sell a 40 than a 357sig.
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Old 10-21-2012, 17:44   #32
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I am going to make the assumption that you will be using a glock. With that said if you buy a 9mm you can only shoot 9mm. If you buy a 40 or 357sig you can shoot the other with just a barrel swap. You can also shoot 9mm with a conversion barrel and the right mags. I would recommend you buy a 40 with the two extra barrels and some 9mm mags. I only say the 40 because if you want to sell the gun in the future it is a lot easier to sell a 40 than a 357sig.
My thinking also.

Given what the man said about his 9mm fast and light capabilities coupled with the .40S&W heavy and powerful capabilities I'd go with a G-35 with the various conversion barrels. And there's a whole lot of caliber/ammo options available between those two extremes.

I don't really need any more firearms but this has me thinking ...

... that a G-35 might be a logical future trade or purchase.
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Old 10-21-2012, 19:34   #33
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boutique manufacturers & 357sig

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I am going to make the assumption that you will be using a glock. With that said if you buy a 9mm you can only shoot 9mm. If you buy a 40 or 357sig you can shoot the other with just a barrel swap. You can also shoot 9mm with a conversion barrel and the right mags. I would recommend you buy a 40 with the two extra barrels and some 9mm mags. I only say the 40 because if you want to sell the gun in the future it is a lot easier to sell a 40 than a 357sig.
I have a 357sig with a 9mm conversion bbl. I shoot both underwood and georgia arms in both calibers. The GA is "hotter" than federal, speer, etc and underwood is about 150fps faster than georgia arms. Both are priced less than the premium manufacturers like double tap and corbon. I spoke with the owner Kevin and he said that his business plan is delivera premium ammo with higher energy dump, better expansion at less cost than the others.

I shot a 5" group @ 10 yards with federal 125 gr and cut it to 2" with underwood. Great CS also. Loaded to what 357 sig should be. The 9mm gives both inexpensive range ammo AND the ability to have excellent self defence rounds in that caliber. The advice to buy a .40 and get two conversion bbls is excellent. You get three guns in one. If the shtf you will have three different calibers for you to scrounge for.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:01   #34
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I have a 357sig with a 9mm conversion bbl. I shoot both underwood and georgia arms in both calibers. The GA is "hotter" than federal, speer, etc and underwood is about 150fps faster than georgia arms. Both are priced less than the premium manufacturers like double tap and corbon. I spoke with the owner Kevin and he said that his business plan is delivera premium ammo with higher energy dump, better expansion at less cost than the others.

I shot a 5" group @ 10 yards with federal 125 gr and cut it to 2" with underwood. Great CS also. Loaded to what 357 sig should be. The 9mm gives both inexpensive range ammo AND the ability to have excellent self defence rounds in that caliber. The advice to buy a .40 and get two conversion bbls is excellent. You get three guns in one. If the shtf you will have three different calibers for you to scrounge for.
Do you have to change the breech when you shoot 9mm in your .357 Sig Glock?
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Old 10-22-2012, 14:48   #35
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breech question

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Do you ghave to change the breech when you shoot 9mm in your .357 Sig Glock?
No. You would need mags for the caliber you are converting to such as 9mm. If you are converting from 357sig to 9mm you may have to drop a pound or to on the spring.

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Old 10-22-2012, 15:26   #36
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No. You would need mags for the caliber you are converting to such as 9mm. If you are converting from 357sig to 9mm you may have to drop a pound or to on the spring.
The recoil spring, correct?
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:19   #37
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[QUOTE=avenues165;19512900]Underwood 9mm +p+ 124gr = 1,298fps
New Underwood 357 sig 125gr = 1,475fps (as stated by Underwood on GT, not tested yet by TNOutdoors9)

The rounds tested by TNOutdoors9 for 357 sig are all loads from the bigger guys that don't make hotter 357sig loads(Federal, Remington, Speer, hornady).

Let's compare apples to apples.

Having said all of that, the 9mm is a fine cartridge and would serve you well.[/QUOTE

TNOutdoors9 test on Uderwood 357 sig 125 gr. jhp ammo-

http://www.underwoodammo.com/357sig1...ntboxof50.aspx
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Old 11-27-2012, 14:25   #38
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You guys keep talking price when the diff is $7 per box for carry ammo. So that is not a reason to go 9mm +P+. Yes, std vel practice ammo is cheaper in 9mm, but then you are not practicing w/ something equiv to your carry ammo, if that is a concern. If you handeload, the cost is almost identical between 9mm & 357sig & you have options w/ the 357sig you do not with 9mm. Just a though.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:51   #39
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You guys keep talking price when the diff is $7 per box for carry ammo. So that is not a reason to go 9mm +P+. Yes, std vel practice ammo is cheaper in 9mm, but then you are not practicing w/ something equiv to your carry ammo, if that is a concern. If you handeload, the cost is almost identical between 9mm & 357sig & you have options w/ the 357sig you do not with 9mm. Just a though.
At a gun show in NH, I got a box of 50 Fed 9BPLE for just $25.

This load reaches 1400 FPS out of my Gen3 G17.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:08   #40
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At a gun show in NH, I got a box of 50 Fed 9BPLE for just $25.

This load reaches 1400 FPS out of my Gen3 G17.
You can buy the very same 9BPLE online for $16-$17/box of 50. If this is you're preferred 9mm carry round you can buy 250 rounds for right around $100, shipping included. One of the best deals going for a street proven 9mm round, in my opinion.
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