GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2012, 11:54   #121
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 15,442
What ammo do you see running in that, for SHTF/zombie use?
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 12:16   #122
mvician
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
mvician's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 3,379
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Crush what misinformation? That every civilian AR15 has to have a thousand dollars worth of optics and accessories on it so that the civilians can fight off Red Dawn 2?
This misinformation that cheap stuff is "just as good as".

mvician is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 12:25   #123
CigarandScotch
Fartacus
 
CigarandScotch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cackalacky
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvician View Post
This misinformation that cheap stuff is "just as good as".

+1

If you don't want it or can't afford it, or just can't justify having it....don't buy it. But don't get into a purse swinging contest on the internet about it because you are butthurt...
__________________
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.~ Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by CigarandScotch; 10-16-2012 at 12:25..
CigarandScotch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 15:35   #124
DaleGribble
Well Heeled Bum
 
DaleGribble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Land of the toothless!
Posts: 17,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvician View Post
This misinformation that cheap stuff is "just as good as".

My only post to this train wreck...

IMHO the "just as good as" needs a qualifier attached to it. For the professional trigger puller the cheaper optics will never be "just as good as" and Marshall of Primary Arms has said the same about his very own products.

For the guy that shoots his AR occasionally and only at the paper zombies it is "just as good as" a high end optic.

When I got paid to carry a weapon I used an Eotech. Now that I don't and my AR's are a hobby I won't drop that kind of coin for a range toy.

Just my humble opinion.

And now, back to the
DaleGribble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 17:34   #125
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 58,906


Quote:
Originally Posted by mvician View Post
This misinformation that cheap stuff is "just as good as".

Who claimed that the Chinese knockoffs are "just as good as" Trijicon/Leupold/Eotech/Aimpoint/Zeiss/Schmidt&Bender?

I read that some claimed the el cheapos are "good enough" for their owners' purposes.
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 18:20   #126
doc540
Senior Member
 
doc540's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Deep SE Texas
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Who claimed that the Chinese knockoffs are "just as good as" Trijicon/Leupold/Eotech/Aimpoint/Zeiss/Schmidt&Bender?

I read that some claimed the el cheapos are "good enough" for their owners' purposes.
It's the typical Forum Fighter knee-jerk response to the words, "budget" and, "AR15".

It's become a modern syndrome.

Soon they'll be an acronym for it.

Contest?
__________________
NRA Life Member
NRA Instructor
"Shooting more, typing less"
doc540 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 18:33   #127
jeepinbandit
Sgt. USMC
 
jeepinbandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NAS Fort Worth JRB
Posts: 449
Send a message via Yahoo to jeepinbandit
BAR-15.

"Budget" AR-15
__________________
Glock 17 (Dad's old duty sidearm)
And some other stuff
jeepinbandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 18:49   #128
doc540
Senior Member
 
doc540's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Deep SE Texas
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinbandit View Post
BAR-15.

"Budget" AR-15


We need an acronym for jackass forum fighter knee-jerk reactions.
__________________
NRA Life Member
NRA Instructor
"Shooting more, typing less"
doc540 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 21:22   #129
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Crush what misinformation? That every civilian AR15 has to have a thousand dollars worth of optics and accessories on it so that the civilians can fight off Red Dawn 2?
This ^ misinformation. If this is really how you think I feel you're everything you've proven yourself to be. No individual on this forum is suggesting anyone spend thousands.

$995 6920
$550 used H1 w/ Larue Mount
$50 rear sight
$40 sling
$56 4 PMags
$117 500 rounds of ammunition
$65 4hr. Basic Carbine
= Done

I'm looking for the thousands.

Don't hold a grudge because someone younger has a lot more knowledge, experience, and common sense than you. You're time has passed. Most, if not all, see through the gross exaggerations you throw out while grasping for traction.
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 22:54   #130
LL6
Senior Member
 
LL6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Off I-40, NC
Posts: 1,540
It's pretty much a given fact that "budget", "cost-effective", etc are often times dirty words to those that covet the pricier brands. Unfortunately the internet tends to foster this from guns to mountain bikes.

Earlier today I was reading a similar thread at "you-know-who.net" where there were a few throwing off on Spike lowers. The reasons given weren't very relevant. This attitude is myopic and what they fail to realize is it may have a direct affect on them as a couple were "industry professionals" connected with schools. Does anyone think that attitudes like this will attract future students?

In my naive way I approach it from an enthusiast's pov and don't roll my eyes whether someone is sporting a kia or an AMG-quality weapon. Who cares because we are doing something we want to or like to do and not everyone has the funds or situation to warrant spending lots of dinero.

Last, mjkeat you're a smart guy so re-read your last para to fnfal and tell me what you think may be wrong with that attitude?
__________________
Mike
G26
LL6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 23:18   #131
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by LL6 View Post
It's pretty much a given fact that "budget", "cost-effective", etc are often times dirty words to those that covet the pricier brands. Unfortunately the internet tends to foster this from guns to mountain bikes.
Have you ever been to a class where someone came w/ their airsoft equipped DPMS? I have. The instructor ends up babysitting while everyone else has to crawl because airsoft boy can't get his optic to hold zero. It has nothing to do w/ cost. Only people defending their toy quality gear are concerned w/ cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LL6 View Post
Earlier today I was reading a similar thread at "you-know-who.net" where there were a few throwing off on Spike lowers. The reasons given weren't very relevant. This attitude is myopic and what they fail to realize is it may have a direct affect on them as a couple were "industry professionals" connected with schools. Does anyone think that attitudes like this will attract future students?
There is a lot of talk about Spikes. Most of it has to do w/ their biz practices and their emblem that resembles dueling *****es.

Also read above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LL6 View Post
Last, mjkeat you're a smart guy so re-read your last para to fnfal and tell me what you think may be wrong with that attitude?
Enlighten me.
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 08:37   #132
SigFTW
Senior Member
 
SigFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TX
Posts: 2,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc540 View Post


We need an acronym for jackass forum fighter knee-jerk reactions.


Now back on topic
doc, nice AR and optics!!
__________________
Spent brass to me is like the ring to Gollum "We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious"
SigFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 08:53   #133
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 58,906


Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
This ^ misinformation. If this is really how you think I feel you're everything you've proven yourself to be. No individual on this forum is suggesting anyone spend thousands.

$995 6920
$550 used H1 w/ Larue Mount
$50 rear sight
$40 sling
$56 4 PMags
$117 500 rounds of ammunition
$65 4hr. Basic Carbine
= Done

I'm looking for the thousands.
H1? Substitute that with a brand new ACOG and see what the new price is? Where's the flashlight in that accessories list? What about the MagPul rails/buttstock/front grip accessories?

Quote:
Don't hold a grudge because someone younger has a lot more knowledge, experience, and common sense than you. You're time has passed. Most, if not all, see through the gross exaggerations you throw out while grasping for traction.
Kid, I've forgotten more about shooting than you'd ever know. As far as common sense goes, we all know who has it and who doesn't. Of course, can't really hold that against you because common sense and wisdom come with age.

Don't take it too personally because when I laugh at you, I also laugh at myself as I recalled my conversations with the old timers back when I was your age. Hell, I knew it all and the old timeys didn't know nuthin' because I was better trained with more recent knowledge.

Twenty years from now, you'd have the same conversation with some youngsters who claimed that you don't know nuthin' about nuthin' and that they know more, and experience more, ad infinitum.
__________________
Can you dig it?

Last edited by fnfalman; 10-17-2012 at 09:00..
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 09:26   #134
M&P15T
Beard One
 
M&P15T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 12,214
Fun day at the range:

Well, got out to the range yesterday, and low and behold, another AR shooter was using a Tru-glow Tru-Bright Open Red Dot sight. I had never seen one before, so he let me fondle his rifle and check the optic out. I was rather shocked at how small and sharp the dot was, 95% as good as the center dot on my Eotech....for $99.00

Oh well, it's not tactical enough, not ready for COMABT!! , so he must have been an idiot loser.

Still, a fun day was had at the range. 100 yard shots at a torso-sized metal plate was beyond easy, while standing, kneeling, moving, whatever. It was great fun to get the aural feed-back on your hits.

So, it looks as if there is another el cheapo optic to consider. I tried to get more info from Tru-Glo's web site, but it basically doesn't function, so no luck there. Still, very nice red dot for $99.00
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/pr...414427.4414460

In all obectivity, I think we're on the cusp of serious cost vrs. performance changes in the AR optic market. That Truglo, while not as rugged, would work as well as an Aimpoint/Eotech for a recreational/HD shooter, no problem.
__________________
Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (519 BC 430 BC) Power should only be given to those that want it least.

Last edited by M&P15T; 10-17-2012 at 09:30..
M&P15T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 09:28   #135
M&P15T
Beard One
 
M&P15T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 12,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
H1? Substitute that with a brand new ACOG and see what the new price is? Where's the flashlight in that accessories list? What about the MagPul rails/buttstock/front grip accessories?



Kid, I've forgotten more about shooting than you'd ever know. As far as common sense goes, we all know who has it and who doesn't. Of course, can't really hold that against you because common sense and wisdom come with age.

Don't take it too personally because when I laugh at you, I also laugh at myself as I recalled my conversations with the old timers back when I was your age. Hell, I knew it all and the old timeys didn't know nuthin' because I was better trained with more recent knowledge.

Twenty years from now, you'd have the same conversation with some youngsters who claimed that you don't know nuthin' about nuthin' and that they know more, and experience more, ad infinitum.
Dude, seriously, Ignore List.

Don't beat your head against the trolling wall.
__________________
Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (519 BC 430 BC) Power should only be given to those that want it least.

Last edited by M&P15T; 10-17-2012 at 09:33..
M&P15T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 09:35   #136
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 58,906


Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
Have you ever been to a class where someone came w/ their airsoft equipped DPMS? I have. The instructor ends up babysitting while everyone else has to crawl because airsoft boy can't get his optic to hold zero. It has nothing to do w/ cost. Only people defending their toy quality gear are concerned w/ cost.
It sounds like you need to do more research into the organization that holds these kinds of classes.

Seriously, airsoft optics in a class? I've never seen such an animal at Gunsite training courses.

Of course, if the instructors were of high caliber, then they would have had airsoft boy gone to iron sights and teach airsoft boy on how to fight with iron sight. I know, I know, I know, it's 2012 and iron sights are soooo 19th century and all that, right?


Quote:
Enlighten me.
Don't say it if you don't mean it. You're not going to listen to a damn thing we "old timers" are going to say to you. It's cool though, the march of time will enlighten you.
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 09:41   #137
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 58,906


Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Dude, seriously, Ignore List.

Don't beat your head against the trolling wall.
Thanks for the suggestion, but my Ignore List is empty and I like it that way.

What fun is it to only post with a bunch of yes-men?
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 10:06   #138
M&P15T
Beard One
 
M&P15T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 12,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Thanks for the suggestion, but my Ignore List is empty and I like it that way.

What fun is it to only post with a bunch of yes-men?
Gotcha.....

I'm watching my blood-pressure, so I'm using the Ignore List.
__________________
Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (519 BC 430 BC) Power should only be given to those that want it least.
M&P15T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 10:11   #139
CigarandScotch
Fartacus
 
CigarandScotch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cackalacky
Posts: 579
I'm sure the OP is glad that you idiots hijacked this thread. At least the purse swinging provides some mindless entertainment.
__________________
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.~ Thomas Jefferson
CigarandScotch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 13:56   #140
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
H1? Substitute that with a brand new ACOG and see what the new price is? Where's the flashlight in that accessories list? What about the MagPul rails/buttstock/front grip accessories?
Why an ACOG? The H1/T1 is more than capable of placing fast/accurate rounds on target at distances welll beyond anything a civilian will encounter.

Read: Basic Carbine

Who needs accessories?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Kid, I've forgotten more about shooting than you'd ever know. As far as common sense goes, we all know who has it and who doesn't. Of course, can't really hold that against you because common sense and wisdom come with age.
Quite possible but irrelevant information doesn't count.

Remind me. What's my age?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Don't take it too personally because when I laugh at you, I also laugh at myself as I recalled my conversations with the old timers back when I was your age. Hell, I knew it all and the old timeys didn't know nuthin' because I was better trained with more recent knowledge..
Once again, what's my age?

You don't have the life experience at this point in your life than individuals half your age. Not only that but like stated earlier, the information you've retained has proven to be irrelevant.

Your laughter is a defensive mechanism as you come to terms w/ the fact that you've lost traction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Twenty years from now, you'd have the same conversation with some youngsters who claimed that you don't know nuthin' about nuthin' and that they know more, and experience more, ad infinitum.
Doubtful as I do my best to stay abreast w/ relevancy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
It sounds like you need to do more research into the organization that holds these kinds of classes.

Seriously, airsoft optics in a class? I've never seen such an animal at Gunsite training courses.

Of course, if the instructors were of high caliber, then they would have had airsoft boy gone to iron sights and teach airsoft boy on how to fight with iron sight. I know, I know, I know, it's 2012 and iron sights are soooo 19th century and all that, right?

Don't say it if you don't mean it. You're not going to listen to a damn thing we "old timers" are going to say to you. It's cool though, the march of time will enlighten you.
Unfortunately you can't always predict who and what is going to show up and are left having to work w/ what is in front of you. That's what basic classes are for. Most, after realizing there is indead more cons than pros to cheap optics/accessories etc. show up w/ quality gear next time or don't show up at all.

Sites like this are great for conveying such experience. Experience that would help that first time student show up more prepared. But then you have individuals who preach airsoft, just as good, and mediocrity who set these people up for failure. People like you.

When the curriculum for that portion of the class calls for the zeroing of your optic, you zero your optic. When you're supposed to be working malfunction drills you don't work transition drills.

What classes did you attend at Gunsite and when?

If anything you said was relevant people would listen.


The cuteness has worn off and this is starting to resemble 2A talk w/ a liberal. You and your boy don't know what you're talking about but then again as the phrase goes, you don't know what you don't know.

I only continue this so others aren't mislead. However, it seems that the good majority fully understand your incompetence. It appears that my job is complete.

Last edited by mjkeat; 10-17-2012 at 14:02..
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:34.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,319
397 Members
922 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31