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Old 10-14-2012, 19:46   #226
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Originally Posted by Foxtrotx1 View Post
Why do we need one? It was a legit attack....

Nor do the Japanese Americans need one as it was a legitimate act of National Security.






War is hell (we did not start it)
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Old 10-14-2012, 20:31   #227
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We had Japanese internment camps up north, a girl I know lives in a small town where the buildings are still very intact, yet vacant.
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Old 10-14-2012, 21:13   #228
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Ten pages of teeth-gnashing, arguments, counter-arguments, etc... and the OP still hasn't come back.

Good job, Vart. Way to drop the bomb and run.
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Old 10-14-2012, 21:26   #229
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Why do we need one? It was a legit attack....
No, it wasnt...unless you really hate your country.
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Old 10-14-2012, 21:29   #230
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. Way to drop the bomb and run.
How appropo!
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Old 10-14-2012, 23:10   #231
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What is all of this talk about "racism" when talking about relocation and interment camps for Japanese and Japanese-Americans? It wasn't about racism and "yellow" people. It was about national origin and national heritage not race. As far as I can tell it was not about Asians and Asian-Americans at all, so it was not racial.

Why is it that people throw the race card about things that are not about race?

Starting from a false premise nullifies an argument.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:40   #232
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No, it wasnt...unless you really hate your country.
So they were supposed to tell the whole world they were coming? Since when was that a good strategy?

A Gallop poll taken just before the attacks in 1941 indicated 51 percent of Americans expected war with Japan. We were stupid for not expecting something.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:48   #233
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What is all of this talk about "racism" when talking about relocation and interment camps for Japanese and Japanese-Americans? It wasn't about racism and "yellow" people. It was about national origin and national heritage not race. As far as I can tell it was not about Asians and Asian-Americans at all, so it was not racial.

Why is it that people throw the race card about things that are not about race?

Starting from a false premise nullifies an argument.

Because it was indeed racism.

No US citizen of German descent was interred (only some - not all - German born immigrants). Even though some were active in pro-Nazi organizations, were spying on behalf of Hitler, some were actually preparing for diversions/acts of terror. Likewise, no Americans of Italian, Hungarian or Romanian background were interred based just on their ethnic background. Even though these countries were at war with the US. Only those who were actually caught working on behalf of the enemy were apprehended, the way it should be in a lawful democratic state.

But the American citizens of Japanese descent were all rounded up, stripped of their constitutional rights, robbed of their property, and sent to prison camps. Just because their parents or grandparents came from Japan. The newspapers of the time were full of "yellow danger" and similar slurs. The Japanese Americans were been treated differently than German Americans, even though they posed about the same level of danger. And many newspaper references at the time were outright racist. If that's not racism, what is it then ?

Imagine that we go to war with Ireland and all Americans with Irish background are arrested and put in camps - sounds ridiculous doesn't it ? How about arresting all Polish Americans during Cold War ?
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:50   #234
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There was one right next door here, and on an indian reservation no less, let that blow your mind.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:56   #235
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I feel about as much pity for them as I do the folks we dropped the bomb on.
My Uncle told me about Kamakazee's hitting the Saratoga and how hard they fought to keep them back.
Read up on the stuff the Japanese walked away from after WWII and your pity might dwindle a bit.
What does it have to do with Americans of Japanese origin ?

Germans did even nastier things, does it mean that any American of German origin should had had their rights stripped away ?
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:19   #236
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But the American citizens of Japanese descent were all rounded up, stripped of their constitutional rights, robbed of their property, and sent to prison camps
No, that is NOT what happened. it is the American hating far left that promotes this myth. That all Japanese Americans were rounded up and put in "Prison camps." They deliberately blur the lie between Internment camps and relocation camps.

Internment camps were for non citizen Japanese (resident aliens) and the 5,620 Japanese that formally renounced their U.S. citizenship when America went to war with Japan. if their spouses and family were Citizens they were not required to go. They could go if they wished but only with the understanding that if they did they had to remain for the duration.

Japanese Americans who were not renunciates were not required to relocate to the relocation camps, they were required to leave the exclusionary zones established on the west cost.

They wee free to relocate outside the exclusionary zones.If they had no where to go then they could go to the relocation camps. They could leave anytime they wished. Over 4,000 students were given full scholarships to universities outside of the exclusionary zone.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:24   #237
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No, that is NOT what happened. it is the American hating far left that promotes this myth. That all Japanese Americans were rounded up and put in "Prison camps." They deliberately blur the lie between Internment camps and relocation camps.

Internment camps were for non citizen Japanese (resident aliens) and the 5,620 Japanese that formally renounced their U.S. citizenship when America went to war with Japan. if their spouses and family were Citizens they were not required to go. They could go if they wished but only with the understanding that if they did they had to remain for the duration.

Japanese Americans who were not renunciates were not required to relocate to the relocation camps, they were required to leave the exclusionary zones established on the west cost.

They wee free to relocate outside the exclusionary zones.If they had no where to go then they could go to the relocation camps. They could leave anytime they wished. Over 4,000 students were given full scholarships to universities outside of the exclusionary zone.
OK, I didn't know that. Still, this is where their homes and businesses were. So they were kicked out of their homes but allowed to go to the interior. And this didn't apply to German or Italian Americans (many of whom lived on East Coast which is where Germany would strike if they ever won in Europe). Still, looks like racism had more to do with this than actual necessity.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:28   #238
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So they were supposed to tell the whole world they were coming? Since when was that a good strategy?

A Gallop poll taken just before the attacks in 1941 indicated 51 percent of Americans expected war with Japan. We were stupid for not expecting something.
Roosevelt wanted US to get involved in WWII much earlier. However Congress wouldn't go for it. So he forced an oil embargo on Japan - which has no oil reserves - understanding fully well that this meant war - the Japanese had to either allow their industry to collapse, or strike. If a country tried to prevent oil from reaching our shores today, this would rightly be considered an act of war.

It's not like Japanese attack was unprovoked, or unexpected.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:35   #239
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So it's creepy to drive by a gas station? Huh.... only the prices scare me.

Seriously... you probably drive by TONS of places where atrocities have occurred in the past. It was almost 70 years since that particular one happened. Go back a few hundred years and maybe you're driving right by where an Indian massacre occurred or something.

Ohhhhh..... scary.

Sheesh.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:00   #240
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OK, I didn't know that. Still, this is where their homes and businesses were. So they were kicked out of their homes but allowed to go to the interior.
And that is bad enough but it is not the same as being dragged off to prison camps.

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And this didn't apply to German or Italian Americans (many of whom lived on East Coast which is where Germany would strike if they ever won in Europe)
The executive order authorizing forced relocation did not specify Just Japanese and Japanese Americans. Germans and Italians were also required to leave the exclusionary zones. The difference being that only Japanese Americans were allowed to temporarily relocate to relocation camps. Germans and Italians were not allowed.

There was other differences between Japanese Americans and German Americans and Italian Americans. No German Americans or Italian Americans renounced their U.S. citizen Ship. 5,620 Japanese Americans did. Also a great many Japanese Americans refused to take a loyalty oath. (The same one that has to be taken to become a naturalized American Citizen)

Here is the actual Executive Order.

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Executive Order No. 9066

The President

Executive Order

Authorizing the Secretary of War to Prescribe Military Areas

Whereas the successful prosecution of the war requires every possible protection against espionage and against sabotage to national-defense material, national-defense premises, and national-defense utilities as defined in Section 4, Act of April 20, 1918, 40 Stat. 533, as amended by the Act of November 30, 1940, 54 Stat. 1220, and the Act of August 21, 1941, 55 Stat. 655 (U.S.C., Title 50, Sec. 104);

Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. The Secretary of War is hereby authorized to provide for residents of any such area who are excluded therefrom, such transportation, food, shelter, and other accommodations as may be necessary, in the judgment of the Secretary of War or the said Military Commander, and until other arrangements are made, to accomplish the purpose of this order. The designation of military areas in any region or locality shall supersede designations of prohibited and restricted areas by the Attorney General under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, and shall supersede the responsibility and authority of the Attorney General under the said Proclamations in respect of such prohibited and restricted areas.

I hereby further authorize and direct the Secretary of War and the said Military Commanders to take such other steps as he or the appropriate Military Commander may deem advisable to enforce compliance with the restrictions applicable to each Military area hereinabove authorized to be designated, including the use of Federal troops and other Federal Agencies, with authority to accept assistance of state and local agencies.

I hereby further authorize and direct all Executive Departments, independent establishments and other Federal Agencies, to assist the Secretary of War or the said Military Commanders in carrying out this Executive Order, including the furnishing of medical aid, hospitalization, food, clothing, transportation, use of land, shelter, and other supplies, equipment, utilities, facilities, and services.

This order shall not be construed as modifying or limiting in any way the authority heretofore granted under Executive Order No. 8972, dated December 12, 1941, nor shall it be construed as limiting or modifying the duty and responsibility of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, with respect to the investigation of alleged acts of sabotage or the duty and responsibility of the Attorney General and the Department of Justice under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, prescribing regulations for the conduct and control of alien enemies, except as such duty and responsibility is superseded by the designation of military areas hereunder.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

The White House,

February 19, 1942.

[F.R. Doc. 42–1563; Filed, February 21, 1942; 12:51 p.m.]

Source: Executive Order No. 9066, February 19, 1942.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:56   #241
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Its sad that Japanese Americans were put in camps but German Americans were not.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:44   #242
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Its sad that Japanese Americans were put in camps but German Americans were not.
The ones wearing lederhosen were, and rightfully so IMO.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:06   #243
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Wow, I was alive when that happened; but I had no idea about the Japanese Internet Camps. No wonder they are so far ahead of the rest of the world in technology fields.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:26   #244
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No, that is NOT what happened.
Your version isn't what happened either.

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Internment camps were for non citizen Japanese (resident aliens) and the 5,620 Japanese that formally renounced their U.S. citizenship when America went to war with Japan.
Entirely untrue. Over 60% of those interned were American citizens.

No one was interned for "renouncing their US citizenship." There were not 5,600 people who renounced their US citizenship when American went to war with Japan. There were 5,600 American citizens who renounced their citizenship on July 1, 1944, after FDR signed a law making it possible to do so.

Of the ~5600 who did so, 96% were from a single camp (Tule Lake) and they had been detained there for over two years.

No one renounced their citizenship on the day after the Japanese bombed Pearl. A bunch of Americans renounced their citizenship after their country had locked them up without cause for two years. When those people were rounded up, they were still citizens.

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Japanese Americans who were not renunciates were not required to relocate to the relocation camps, they were required to leave the exclusionary zones established on the west cost.
There is a nugget of truth there. And it is indeed wrong to say that "all" Japanese Americans were relocated, it was primarily those on the West coast.

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They wee free to relocate outside the exclusionary zones.If they had no where to go then they could go to the relocation camps.
In other words: "Leave your home and all your belongings with an hours' notice; if you don't have family on the East Coast or in the Midwest you must go to the camps."

Painting that as a choice is ludicrous.

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They could leave anytime they wished.
And go... where?

Oh, that's right, nearly 4000 of them went right into the Army to go fight Nazis in Europe.

But there weren't very many other places for them to go.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:24   #245
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Entirely untrue. Over 60% of those interned were American citizens.
Interred or relocated? as I stated the internment camps were not for the purpose of interring American citizens just because they were Japanese ancestry.

Did Japanese Americans end up interred? yes, those that would not take the loyalty oath were.

Quote:
No one was interned for "renouncing their US citizenship." There were not 5,600 people who renounced their US citizenship when American went to war with Japan. There were 5,600 American citizens who renounced their citizenship on July 1, 1944, after FDR signed a law making it possible to do so.
They certainly did not decide July 31, 1944 they wanted to renounce their citizenship. getting the legal means to renounce their citizenship during war time was along process. A process that would never have begun if the desire to do so was not there in the first place.

And why were those Japanese Americans detained at Tula? was it because they refused to take the loyalty oath?
(Not saying requiring they take a loyalty oath was right but that is the what was required.

Some others ended up detained because they did not leave the exclusionary zones and were forcibly removed.

Quote:
In other words: "Leave your home and all your belongings with an hours' notice; if you don't have family on the East Coast or in the Midwest you must go to the camps."
They did not have to have family. they were free to relocate on their own. As I have maintained throughout this thread I still believe that was wrong. But the fact remains the SCOTUS upheld the Relocation order as Constitutional. It is pretty Unlikely that the SCOTUS would do so today.

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Painting that as a choice is ludicrous.
The ability to relocate was entirely dependent on the individual(S) means to be able to do so. For those without the means it certainly limited their options to virtually no choice.

But the choice remained even if the means did not. The real point was it was not the same as being rounded up and forced into "Prison camps". Which is what I was responding to.


Quote:
And go... where?
And that is the rub isn't it? for those without the means the relocation camps were the only real choice.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:49   #246
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Its sad that Japanese Americans were put in camps but German Americans were not.

Apparently you haven't read the complete thread.


"A total of 11,507 Germans and German-Americans were interned during the war, accounting for 36% of the total internments under the Justice Department's Enemy Alien Control Program, but far less than the 110,000 Japanese-Americans interned. Such internments began with the detention of 1,260 Germans shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Of the 254 persons evicted from coastal areas, the majority were German. In addition, over 4,500 ethnic Germans were brought to the U.S. from Latin America and similarly detained."
http://www.rtbot.net/German_American_internment
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Old 10-15-2012, 13:14   #247
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A lot of guilt in this thread....
This needs to be seen in context of Pearl Harbor.
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Old 10-15-2012, 14:25   #248
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Never saw any pictures of piano wires hanging from hooks, ala SS Nazis in Japanese Inter Camps. Don't believe they were brutally tortured, starved or medically tested to prolong an agoning prison life. The construction was fast/shoddy at best.

They had a hard time, no doubt being relocated. Would lynch mobs killing them while they slept, or burning down their houses/business's solve anything?
The US didn't need any more spying, or murder to deal with here.

The Pearl Harbor attacks, loss in the Phillipines, Pacific Islands all showed brutal war tactics used by the Japanese. Don't forget their war in China, not pretty.
Overall they survived, ask the Jews about their camps. Makes me sick to see how man can treat other men.
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Old 10-15-2012, 14:32   #249
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Overall they survived, ask the Jews about their camps. Makes me sick to see how man can treat other men.
Just because the Jews died under the Nazis regime does not make what what the United States Goverment did to American citzens acceptable

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The Pearl Harbor attacks, loss in the Phillipines, Pacific Islands all showed brutal war tactics used by the Japanese. Don't forget their war in China, not pretty.
.
None of which was done by Japanese Americans, that is basically saying that all the German Americans reguardless of when they immgrated here were responsible for all of the crimes of the Nazis

Your argument is because one country committed war crimes the entire race is guilty - and that is not racist in any way how...
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Old 10-15-2012, 15:31   #250
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[QUOTE=raven11;19521024]Just because the Jews died under the Nazis regime does not make what what the United States Goverment did to American citzens acceptable


...not acceptable to you perhaps. But you are basing your opinion on emotion, not the reality of the situation. What happened was quite acceptable for National Security, unfortunate but acceptable
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