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Old 10-14-2012, 16:01   #41
dkf
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Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
Well man, I hope you know that the 240grain .44 has a SD of .185 and the 230grain 10mm is at .205SD and looks to be a fine tool for the job for anyone. The 200grain 10mm is at .179SD which is more comparable to the 240grn .44 and should be more than fine for a deer, especially at 800+ ft lbs from a 6" bbl. The difference between .400 and .429 is pretty nil if we are talking hardcast. The penetration of either is more than enough for a deer.
Whew just so the sectional density is close. They must be equal then.

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You mean like the thread where people wanted to go deer hunting with a 9mm. People were adamantly advocating that silliness.
Well a 147gr FMJ will penetrate through a deer and the diameter is only slightly smaller at .355" vs .401" so it must be ok.

Last edited by dkf; 10-14-2012 at 16:03..
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Old 10-14-2012, 16:11   #42
uz2bUSMC
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Whew just so the sectional density is close. They must be equal then.

Well a 147gr FMJ will penetrate through a deer and the diameter is only slightly smaller at .355" vs .401" so it must be ok.
Um, yea... a 147grn fmj 9mm would probably have no problem penetrating through a deer. I mean, if you don't think so I'd guess you really don't know how sectional density works for non expanding projectiles. Same reason .357 with hardcast has been successful on deer. Doesn't take much energy to penetrate far when bullets aren't expanding. So as far as deer are concerned, they won't know much difference. They are not hard to kill.

You probably can't come up with any good reason why the 10mm is not suitable for deer, you should probably just quit wasting your time.
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Old 10-14-2012, 16:27   #43
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Um, yea... a 147grn fmj 9mm would probably have no problem penetrating through a deer. I mean, if you don't think so I'd guess you really don't know how sectional density works for non expanding projectiles. Same reason .357 with hardcast has been successful on deer. Doesn't take much energy to penetrate far when bullets aren't expanding. So as far as deer are concerned, they won't know much difference. They are not hard to kill.

You probably can't come up with any good reason why the 10mm is not suitable for deer, you should probably just quit wasting your time.
A 147gr 9mm FMJ can penetrate through a deer, that is why I said it. I was using your flawed logic to sarcastically say it must be an adequate deer round then. I will try and explain things further next time so you can keep up.
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Old 10-14-2012, 16:45   #44
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A 147gr 9mm FMJ can penetrate through a deer, that is why I said it. I was using your flawed logic to sarcastically say it must be an adequate deer round then. I will try and explain things further next time so you can keep up.
All it needs to do is penetrate the deer, as with any round. They are not hard to kill. But please, give your reason why the 10mm is not adequate for the animal we are discussing.
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Old 10-14-2012, 17:50   #45
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But please, give your reason why the 10mm is not adequate for the animal we are discussing.
Thought you would have nothing.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:50   #46
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Good hits count, poor hits and misses dont count. makes no difference if its an elephant gun or a pee shooter. if you hit an animal the wrong way in the wrong place it makes no difference the weapon it will still suffer and not die.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:11   #47
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Thought you would have nothing.
it may be adequate but that doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job. hunters should use the heaviest caliber they can shoot safely and accurately to do all they can to provide for a humane and quick harvest. clearly you don't need a .458 or .460 but let's face it, a 10mm with some 400 - 500 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle is a far cry from a 30-06 with an actual ton (2000) ft-lbs of energy out to 200 yards.

put it another way, if you knew you would continue being shot until you actually died, what would you want to be shot with? a .22, a .223, 10mm, 30-06, .340wby, etc?
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Old 10-15-2012, 16:11   #48
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Can't you go back to that other thread and cry while hugging a tree instead of this one?
I am not crying or hugging a tree. Neither am I going to leap out of a deer stand in a ninja suit, tackle a buck in rut and glock him with 9mm.
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Old 10-15-2012, 16:24   #49
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it may be adequate but that doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job. hunters should use the heaviest caliber they can shoot safely and accurately to do all they can to provide for a humane and quick harvest. clearly you don't need a .458 or .460 but let's face it, a 10mm with some 400 - 500 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle is a far cry from a 30-06 with an actual ton (2000) ft-lbs of energy out to 200 yards.

put it another way, if you knew you would continue being shot until you actually died, what would you want to be shot with? a .22, a .223, 10mm, 30-06, .340wby, etc?
Might wanna check your energy numbers for the 10mm again. The 10mmm does provide quick and humane harvests on deer and has been doing so for a lot of people for a long time. They don't need a .458 as you said they also don't require an '06, all they need is penetration of the vitals which
10mm will do without a problem.
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Old 10-15-2012, 16:26   #50
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I am not crying or hugging a tree. Neither am I going to leap out of a deer stand in a ninja suit, tackle a buck in rut and glock him with 9mm.
Well, if you did leap out of a tree in a ninja suit, that should be all you need.
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Old 10-15-2012, 18:49   #51
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It seems to me that full-power 10mm loads are more than adequate for deer hunting.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:01   #52
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Well man, I hope you know that the 240grain .44 has a SD of .185 and the 230grain 10mm is at .205SD and looks to be a fine tool for the job for anyone. The 200grain 10mm is at .179SD which is more comparable to the 240grn .44 and should be more than fine for a deer, especially at 800+ ft lbs from a 6" bbl. The difference between .400 and .429 is pretty nil if we are talking hardcast. The penetration of either is more than enough for a deer.
Excluding laws, two things are needed to determine minimum cartridge. You absolutely have to be put the bullet within vitals everytime or pass the shot.....this also defines your range. I use the 8" plate for big game measure. How does your selected load perform with the ideal perfect shot and also with possible obstructions? How will it perform if you hit a rib, nip a shoulder, or vegetation in route to the vitals? I'd have to test 45ACP (better yet 45 Super) or 10mm before considering this RELIABLE for elk. Just b/c you see a youtube video doesn't mean it is a good idea FOR YOU

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Old 10-18-2012, 13:34   #53
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That's right brother.

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Originally Posted by water_daddy View Post
Excluding laws, two things are needed to determine minimum cartridge. You absolutely have to be put the bullet within vitals everytime or pass the shot.....this also defines your range. I use the 8" plate for big game measure. How does your selected load perform with the ideal perfect shot and also with possible obstructions? How will it perform if you hit a rib, nip a shoulder, or vegetation in route to the vitals? I'd have to test 45ACP (better yet 45 Super) or 10mm before considering this RELIABLE for elk. Just b/c you see a youtube video doesn't mean it is a good idea FOR YOU
Real life is better than Youtube
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Old 10-18-2012, 13:36   #54
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Excluding laws, two things are needed to determine minimum cartridge. You absolutely have to be put the bullet within vitals everytime or pass the shot.....this also defines your range. I use the 8" plate for big game measure. How does your selected load perform with the ideal perfect shot and also with possible obstructions? How will it perform if you hit a rib, nip a shoulder, or vegetation in route to the vitals? I'd have to test 45ACP (better yet 45 Super) or 10mm before considering this RELIABLE for elk. Just b/c you see a youtube video doesn't mean it is a good idea FOR YOU
Ok, so why are you telling me this?
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Old 10-18-2012, 13:43   #55
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He is trying

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Ok, so why are you telling me this?
to offer us his wisdom. I can dig it!
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Old 10-18-2012, 14:37   #56
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to offer us his wisdom. I can dig it!
He's offering as if I have never thought of what he is saying or done the research. He would be wrong in that regard.
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Old 10-18-2012, 18:14   #57
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Sometimes

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He's offering as if I have never thought of what he is saying or done the research. He would be wrong in that regard.
It is hard to converse on boards such as these.
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Old 10-18-2012, 18:22   #58
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It is hard to converse on boards such as these.
You are correct Sir, this is why I asked him. Text doesn't always convey tone.
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Old 10-18-2012, 20:00   #59
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I am not a hunter, but I am pro-hunting. I am against inhumane hunting such as trapping and I'm on the fence about bow hunting. Trapping isn't hunting, it's cruel and for lazy idiots that can't hunt. At least bow hunting you have to hunt. I believe that a kill needs to be made fast and have minimal suffering to the animal.

A 10mm I do believe will take out a deer, especially the kind here in the south. They are rather small. It's all about the hunter's skill. As long as they can take a shot they know they can actually take the animal, not just shoot it to see if they can hit it.

A buddy of mine is an animal control officer. He's told me a lot of how the meth head hicks out here all think they are hunters because they wear mossy oak jackets and will shoot at anything they can with whatever they have and all they end up with is wounded animals which usually die of infection or disease due to these wounds. These idiots that want to kill something to feel like a man are not hunters. The hunters I know take it very seriously.
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Old 10-19-2012, 18:28   #60
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>>That elk was dead before the body hit the ground! Not saying that a 45, or 10, are the ideal caliber, for hunting elk, but, if a 44 mag is, could the elk have fallen dead any quicker?<<

Actually, it WAS NOT dead when it hit the ground. If you look closely at about 1:30 in the video (1st video in the thread) when the guy is jumping around with both hands in the air yelling "whoo hoo!!", you can see the elk still flopping around in the background over his right shoulder (left side of screen).
So, it DID NOT appear to be a very humane kill to me! Instead of standing there doing his victory dance, he should have been putting the poor elk out of its misery

Last edited by G26AZ; 10-19-2012 at 18:35..
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