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Old 10-14-2012, 15:06   #151
nursetim
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
Well, your post was full of lots of misinformation. Please educate yourself. If you find that a personal attack, well, so be it.
Well show me where I erred. If so it was out of ignorance, and I claim many ignorances, most I don't even know I have until brought up.

Now if it is word games, such as "what is the meaning of the word "is"?" Then feel free not to respond. If it is along the lines of sovereign citizens rhetoric, again feel free not to respond. But if your stance is that all government programs, I say again, ALL, are entitlements, I would suggest that you are the one mistaken or ignorant.

I have explained my side. You have said nothing in your own defense, save slinging vague responses. I have read your other posts and I believe them wrong. What say you of substance?
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Last edited by nursetim; 10-14-2012 at 15:06..
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Old 10-14-2012, 15:19   #152
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You really dont get it. You are less free than you want to believe. You are much less free than Europeans. If say you are German, you can have a foreign bank account. What do you think the odd of Americans having foreign bank accounts are?
I've been saying that for years. My wife can retire in 2 years. After that we're gone.
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Old 10-14-2012, 15:23   #153
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Sounds like the Bonus March could happen all over again eh?
Once again, you elected these "Officials" to negotiate on your behalf.
Not being happy with how your vote turned out in retrospect is no reason to remove what some call an entitlement and I call my retirement.
And we can elect new ones to renegotiate. Yes, even those who might jack with your retirement.

See how that works?
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Old 10-14-2012, 15:45   #154
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And we can elect new ones to renegotiate. Yes, even those who might jack with your retirement.

See how that works?
Yeah, I sure do; I'm watching Obama care double my Tri-Care Prime costs.
I can almost assure you that before I do retire at 70 someone will come up with the bright idea of taking my retirement to fund more social programs so Shanequia can have three kids out of wedlock, get public housing, Obama Care, Food Stamps, an Obama phone and W.I.C.
The irony in all of this is one of the reasons I retired from the Military was that I didn't trust that S.S. would be there for me when it was my time.
I'm just trying to get a kid through college and live a middle class lifestyle after years of this crap.
I would stuff more money in to my 401K, but they will come after that next.
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Old 10-14-2012, 15:54   #155
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Yeah, I sure do; I'm watching Obama care double my Tri-Care Prime costs.
I can almost assure you that before I do retire at 70 someone will come up with the bright idea of taking my retirement to fund more social programs so Shanequia can have three kids out of wedlock, get public housing, Obama Care, Food Stamps, an Obama phone and W.I.C.
The irony in all of this is one of the reasons I retired from the Military was that I didn't trust that S.S. would be there for me when it was my time.
I'm just trying to get a kid through college and live a middle class lifestyle after years of this crap.
I would stuff more money in to my 401K, but they will come after that next.
I hear ya and don't wish you any misfortune. But we've crossed the point where the math doesn't work any longer. No sacred cows or they all get slaughtered.

If you and I were kings deciding things I estimate our priority list would look very similar, believe it or not.
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Old 10-14-2012, 15:57   #156
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The only security one has is ones self and the ability to change.
Social Darwinism , you are the way , you are the light , you must
change your way of thinking . Once you wrap your mind around
this , the answer is hitting you the face .

I can not even count on money but , I can eat what I grow and that is what I will and am doing . The only sound investment I
can make !
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Old 10-14-2012, 16:01   #157
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Well show me where I erred. If so it was out of ignorance, and I claim many ignorances, most I don't even know I have until brought up.

Now if it is word games, such as "what is the meaning of the word "is"?" Then feel free not to respond. If it is along the lines of sovereign citizens rhetoric, again feel free not to respond. But if your stance is that all government programs, I say again, ALL, are entitlements, I would suggest that you are the one mistaken or ignorant.

I have explained my side. You have said nothing in your own defense, save slinging vague responses. I have read your other posts and I believe them wrong. What say you of substance?
To start with, your definition of entitlement is wrong. It all derailed after that point.
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Old 10-14-2012, 16:07   #158
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This is typical of all my threads , expect the unexpected .
I pride myself in that I can throw the proverbial bone to the pack of starving lions.........
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Old 10-14-2012, 16:31   #159
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Do you believe that people, for example if they lose their job, should be able to file bankruptcy?
Bankruptcy is an area where you have some misunderstanding. This has come up in other threads, and I'm looking at US bankruptcy law only. (BK=bankruptcy -- legal shorthand.)

BK isn't always a "get out of jail free card". You can't just say "I don't want to pay what I owe", and walk away. Yes, there is abuse, but this isn't always the case. You have to say "I can't pay what I owe" and then let the process look at your situation to see if that is accurate.

It a moral problem. Sure, it is hard to justify letting someone walk away from irresponsible behavior. But someone who has had a catastrophic illness that exceeded the medical insurance limit has a more justifiable reason. BK protects both the irresponsible and the unlucky.

If you have the ability to pay all or a portion of your debts with income or assets, you are likely going to lose some of those assets and/or have to make payments for a few years.

If you have personal property over a certain amount, and real property over a certain amount, the portion over the limit is subject to being taken in the BK case. Note that just as debts like student loans are generally not dischargeable, some assets are exempt from being taken; an auto mechanic's tools are an example.

Every case is different, but if you are single, have $20,000 in credit card debt, make $35,000/yr and own a boat and motorcycle worth a combined total of $5,000, you will probably lose those toys, and you may have to pay some of the debt.

If you owe $30,000 have nothing but an old car, make $22,000 and you live with a friend, you will probably walk with a total discharge.

Owe $50,000, make $150,000, have a coin collection worth $35,000? Expect to have your BK petition denied.

It also matters how you incurred the debt. If you owe $30,000 in cc debt, run up another $5,000 for a cruise then file a month after the cruise, expect to be denied. Running up the $5,000 after you fall and have some front teeth broken would be a different story.

You have to report all debts, expenses, any income, and any assets. If you don't report all income and assets, you may have your petition denied, and your debts will remain.

Small oversights, are not a big deal, but if you deliberately conceal any incomes or assets, and you get caught, count on your BK being denied, and pray you aren't prosecuted.



This isn't the academic view of BK, this is roughly what happens in reality. It may not match your experience with your debtors, but consider that you may see a particular segment of all debtors. I guess in statistical terms, you may have a biased sample.

It's like this:

Some cases are
Some are
Some of them are


Sorry to talk your ear off, and if you already know any of what I wrote, please don't take it as an insult to your intelligence....
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Old 10-14-2012, 16:37   #160
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This is typical of all my threads , expect the unexpected .
I pride myself in that I can throw the proverbial bone to the pack of starving lions.........
We're still hungry. Like zombies, we think you look pretty tasty.



Sorry about that. Hope it is quick!
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Old 10-14-2012, 16:40   #161
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I read that they do not even pursue looking in to people claiming a need for Food Stamps. Aparently it's cheaper to hand them out and not even investigate.
People dont have the guts to get up and try anymore before giving in and taking the handout.
I see perfectly able folks pull that card out, who have seperated their legal groceries from their "Fun Stuff".
When the buck finally stops and it will soon, I can't wait to see the looks on some folks faces when the magic card doesn't work anymore and the Gov"t check doesnt come to them.

Last edited by Averageman; 10-14-2012 at 16:42..
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Old 10-14-2012, 16:56   #162
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We're still hungry. Like zombies, we think you look pretty tasty.



Sorry about that. Hope it is quick!
EeeeeeeeeeK...................................
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Old 10-14-2012, 16:58   #163
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To start with, your definition of entitlement is wrong. It all derailed after that point.


No, his definition is not wrong. The definition is not sharply defined, so there no one single definition of the word.

You have posted one definition of it which you got from a law website. That doesn't make it the one and only definition.

Because of that, your arguments are specious, and your insults based on them are baseless.

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Old 10-14-2012, 17:04   #164
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This is typical of all my threads , expect the unexpected .
I pride myself in that I can throw the proverbial bone to the pack of starving lions.........
If you are confronted by a pack of starving lions, I don't think they'll be satisfied with your stinking bone. They'll want to eat you, save the bone for later.

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Old 10-14-2012, 17:05   #165
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No, his definition is not wrong. The definition is not sharply defined, so there no one single definition of the word.

You have posted one definition of it which you got from a law website. That doesn't make it the one and only definition.

Because of that, your arguments are specious, and your insults based on them are baseless.

There's the rub.

An entitlement is whatever the professional liars declare it to be.
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Old 10-14-2012, 17:17   #166
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If you are confronted by a pack of starving lions, I don't think they'll be satisfied with your stinking bone. They'll want to eat you, save the bone for later.

But I have have an ACE up my sleeve , G-29 ...!

MaMa didn't raise no fool...............!

Exit , stage right...............!

Last edited by dango; 10-14-2012 at 17:18..
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Old 10-14-2012, 17:38   #167
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My Grandfather told me that folks who lived in rural America in the MidWest were uneffected by and large by the Depression.
They lived season to season on farms and made most of their own stuff, They bartered for their stuff they couldn't make and worked in factories when the work was there.
Then what really got me was.
"We don't have Farms, we dont have Factories, we barely have Families, I don't think you could have something like that again, because we don't live like that anymore; so how are people going to eat?"
I think we just might find out how that will work for us.
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Old 10-14-2012, 17:40   #168
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But I have have an ACE up my sleeve , G-29 ...!

MaMa didn't raise no fool...............!

Exit , stage right...............!
If you had G33 up your sleeve, she'd eat the lions for ya.
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Old 10-14-2012, 18:02   #169
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I read that they do not even pursue looking in to people claiming a need for Food Stamps. Aparently it's cheaper to hand them out and not even investigate.
People dont have the guts to get up and try anymore before giving in and taking the handout.
I see perfectly able folks pull that card out, who have seperated their legal groceries from their "Fun Stuff".
When the buck finally stops and it will soon, I can't wait to see the looks on some folks faces when the magic card doesn't work anymore and the Gov"t check doesnt come to them.
As much as I am don't like seeing the same thing....

Be careful what you wish for! You aren't going to like that day. It is going to get ugly, and it will be far, far worse than the civil unrest in Greece. Greece will be a holiday public celebration by comparison.

There is a huge difference here because of the underlying racial aspects of public assistance, particularly the fact that blacks are 2.5 times more likely to be on public assistance than whites are. The simmering racial tension will erupt pretty much simultaneously.

Mixing the immediate rage with the ever-present anger will be just like the LA Rodney King riot, except that this time it will be nationwide.
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Old 10-14-2012, 18:05   #170
frizz
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The only security one has is ones self and the ability to change.
Social Darwinism , you are the way , you are the light , you must
change your way of thinking . Once you wrap your mind around
this , the answer is hitting you the face .

I can not even count on money but , I can eat what I grow and that is what I will and am doing . The only sound investment I
can make !
Just pray that you can remain on your land.
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Old 10-14-2012, 18:12   #171
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Giving someone a phone because they are poor is an entitlement, it happens because "Well, duh, everyone deserves a phone." If the phone recipent had to do 8320 hours of work to get the phone, it would not be an entitlement, it would be compensation.

The GI bill is an inducement offered by the government to get people to enlist in the military, no different than the pay, leave time, access to the PX/BX or military retirement. Calling it an entitlement is incorrect. You may consider it excessive compensation, like paying a CEO or University President xx million dollars a year, but it is the same concept, the government offered it as part of a contract for services from the service member and the service member has a legal and moral claim to the agreed upon compensation.

The basis of entitlement is the idea of "I am, therefore I deserve."
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The truth is, the GI Bill is deferred compensation.

The deal is, you serve in the military for low pay and benefits for some number of years and defer a reasonable wage, we will pay the difference between what is reasonable and what you get while serving in the future.
^^^^

this
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Old 10-14-2012, 18:20   #172
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My Grandfather told me that folks who lived in rural America in the MidWest were uneffected by and large by the Depression.
They lived season to season on farms and made most of their own stuff, They bartered for their stuff they couldn't make and worked in factories when the work was there.
Then what really got me was.
"We don't have Farms, we dont have Factories, we barely have Families, I don't think you could have something like that again, because we don't live like that anymore; so how are people going to eat?"
I think we just might find out how that will work for us.
What? Farms in the Midwest were horribly hurt by the depression, and then the dustbowl. Farmers who financed operations by using their farms as security lost them. Wheat prices collapsed below the cost of production.

You know the saying "California or Bust" by the Okies (and not just from Oklahoma) who had to leave their homes.

That was a bad time for agriculture.
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Old 10-14-2012, 18:21   #173
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So, let's hear from all active duty and veterans here on GT. How many of you went into the military for the GI Bill?
Not me, I specifically didn't enroll in Montgomery! Then they came out with post 911 and my youngest is going to college for free (I paid every cent out of pocket for my oldest, no loans and we made too much for any "assistance"). She has a 4 year degree and neither she nor us has any debt and the youngest will go and we will actually make money on the deal.
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Old 10-14-2012, 18:24   #174
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The biggest social entitlement package is the GI Bill.
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
The truth is, the GI Bill is an entitlement program.
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
The fact is, it is an entitlement program.
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
Social Security IS an entitlement program by definition.
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
You need to look up the definition of an entitlement because you are wrong.
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Nope, it really is an entitlement. Look up the definition of entitlement and look at the history of how it all started. The plain and simple fact is that it is an entitlement.
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Wow, this is a stupid response. Please learn what the definition of an entitlement is. Just because you think you know what an entitlement is, doesn't mean that you really know what an entitlement is.
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To start with, your definition of entitlement is wrong. It all derailed after that point.

Wow. Congratulations, I think you just won the award for biggest broken record in the history of internet forums (certainly within such a short time period)!

I guess you believe in the theory of argumentation that consists of repeating oneself over and over and over until someone starts to think you are right. Even though you have offered no evidence or good reason for anyone to believe a word that you are saying.

"Entitlement is what I say it is. Your definition of entitlement is wrong. You are wrong."

OK, we get it. Thanks for the informative posts. Please move along now.

The Okie Corral
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Old 10-14-2012, 18:27   #175
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What? Farms in the Midwest were horribly hurt by the depression, and then the dustbowl. Farmers who financed operations by using their farms as security lost them. Wheat prices collapsed below the cost of production.

You know the saying "California or Bust" by the Okies (and not just from Oklahoma) who had to leave their homes.

That was a bad time for agriculture.
The dust bowl was caused by mans inablity to understand the enviromental needs of the land and nature. It was to say at least not an absolute but more of an effect of ignorance !
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