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Old 10-14-2012, 09:26   #51
RimfireMan
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Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
Its not an entitlement if its earned or contributed to.

Handouts are another story.

If you paid into SS, you get, same for medicare.
If you served in the .mil, you get veterans benefits. Period.

Obama phones, food stamps, welfare, EITC, are another story. Cut off completely except for the most dire of circumstances.
You need to look up the definition of an entitlement because you are wrong.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:54   #52
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Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
Its not an entitlement if its earned or contributed to.

Handouts are another story.

If you paid into SS, you get, same for medicare.
If you served in the .mil, you get veterans benefits. Period.

Obama phones, food stamps, welfare, EITC, are another story. Cut off completely except for the most dire of circumstances.
You get a check because the law says you are ENTITLED to be paid $XX if you meet specific criteria.

So you meet the criteria -

Work for XX periods, serve in the military, have 3 kids and no job, are unemployed because the company downsized you -

You get a check -

They are all entitlement payments - some are 100% welfare - some are part welfare part earned.

-----------

Don't take my word for it - go see what the

"OFFICIAL WEB SITE OF THE U.S. SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION"

says about social security payments.


http://www.socialsecurity.gov/ssi/text-entitle-ussi.htm

It is under the heading --

SOCIAL SECURITY ENTITLEMENT REQUIREMENTS

Last edited by Z71bill; 10-14-2012 at 09:56..
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:00   #53
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I am generally against entitlements.

I think the GI Bill is essentially delayed compensation. We can talk about if military compensation is too high/too low etc, but they did the soldiers worked to get that. In the private business world this would be like getting stock options. You get something later that you believe will be of value in instead of more compensation now.

That said, the entitlement that I am for, is education. I believe that each student should be trained to be able to do a job. Our current education system is broken. Students should not be coming out of high school unemployable. Western European countries manage to educated all their children and without huge debt. Starting life off in the whole is wrong.

I would even be willing to go as far as others and say that each person in the USA should have to spend 1 year in the military/civil service in exchange for getting free university/trade school.

Really, an educated population is good for us as a society. It is the same a good economy is better than higher tax rate to increase tax revenues. If the water level rises, all boats rise up.

Education (not the broken system in the USA we currently have) is an investment in the future of the country that will ensure that the tide gets higher.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:06   #54
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
The biggest social entitlement package is the GI Bill.
Entitlement? It's a job benefit! In exchange for risking their lives to protect the rest of us, my daughter and son-in-law were given a benefits package. I think they deserve more considering the chance of the ultimate sacrifice.

Get days off, sick pay, health insurance through your employer, is that an entitlement or benefit. Do you risk death on your job?
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:09   #55
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Entitlement? It's a job benefit! In exchange for risking their lives to protect the rest of us, my daughter and son-in-law were given a benefits package. I think they deserve more considering the chance of the ultimate sacrifice.

Get days off, sick pay, health insurance through your employer, is that an entitlement or benefit. Do you risk death on your job?
Nope, it really is an entitlement. Look up the definition of entitlement and look at the history of how it all started. The plain and simple fact is that it is an entitlement.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:10   #56
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[QUOTE=Paul53;19517225
Get days off, sick pay, health insurance through your employer, is that an entitlement or benefit. Do you risk death on your job?[/QUOTE]

Police officers and fire fighters risk death on their jobs. Do they get something like the GI Bill?
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:12   #57
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Entitlement? It's a job benefit! In exchange for risking their lives to protect the rest of us, my daughter and son-in-law were given a benefits package. I think they deserve more considering the chance of the ultimate sacrifice.

Get days off, sick pay, health insurance through your employer, is that an entitlement or benefit. Do you risk death on your job?
Dude, do you know how expensive the GI Bill is?
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:17   #58
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Police officers and fire fighters risk death on their jobs. Do they get something like the GI Bill?
We used to get a retirement plan with good on the job benefits. Now the right wing nuts are going after that too. Its funny I know a guy who stocked vending machines and did supply orders on Marine bases for 20 years. He retired at 38. People make pee pee in their diapers for 30 year Police officers and Fireman/Paramedics retiring at 55, a bunch of those guys worked in absolute hell holes in So Cal. People are funny.

Edit- Oh don't forget that people don't have any problem with all the millions 23 year old tweekers on welfare that are drinking a cold one at 11am on Tuesday. Its the public employees that are the root of all evil, they are the ones on the "gravy train".
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:49   #59
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Originally Posted by bmoore View Post
We used to get a retirement plan with good on the job benefits. Now the right wing nuts are going after that too. Its funny I know a guy who stocked vending machines and did supply orders on Marine bases for 20 years. He retired at 38. People make pee pee in their diapers for 30 year Police officers and Fireman/Paramedics retiring at 55, a bunch of those guys worked in absolute hell holes in So Cal. People are funny.

Edit- Oh don't forget that people don't have any problem with all the millions 23 year old tweekers on welfare that are drinking a cold one at 11am on Tuesday. Its the public employees that are the root of all evil, they are the ones on the "gravy train".
That's because we have to pay for it.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:00   #60
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That's because we have to pay for it.
Yeah what a drag. You can pick up the phone and in 4-6 minutes people will be at your door ready to help you, no matter the problem. Its the most instant return of your money you will ever get in government.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:02   #61
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Yeah what a drag.
Right. Because while you retire at 55, the rest of us have to work until we're 70 to pay for it.

You're ambivalence toward the people who put food in your mouth is disturbing. Here's hoping it doesn't come back to bite you at some point.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:03   #62
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Yeah what a drag. You can pick up the phone and in 4-6 minutes people will be at your door ready to help you, no matter the problem. Its the most instant return of your money you will ever get in government.
And for that, they are paid.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:03   #63
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Many people die before reaching retirement. They got nothing back.
If they were investing in a private retirement plan, they would be able to leave that money to their heirs/some person or group of their choice (well, subtracting death taxes, that is).
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:05   #64
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The truth is, the GI Bill is deferred compensation.

The deal is, you serve in the military for low pay and benefits for some number of years and defer a reasonable wage, we will pay the difference between what is reasonable and what you get while serving in the future.
I agree with this, I got paid less than $600.00 a month when I joined.
I did get a H.S. Diploma and an AA and a BS while in without using a nickle of the GI Bill because I was not eligable for it.
I figure you got your return on your Money out of my 20+ years. I went to school nights, weekends and paid out of pocket for my books and supplies.
I ended up with a degree in Business and used a lot of what I learned to make my service to my Country a little better.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:06   #65
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Please google compound interest. There is no way the government isn't making out better on than you on this deal.
Maybe if the money was invested. It's not. I agree with you that compounded interest is the way to go-- private retirement plans FTW.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:06   #66
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If so why did I see every check money gone towards SSI.
They should of left the ****** alone and let ME make that choice.
You probably also see money being taken out for "Income Tax". Planning to file for that too?

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 10-14-2012 at 11:13..
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:08   #67
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That would appear to be the the case and I wish I hadn't learned that so late in life. But , as always , I have have a card up my sleeve.........! Would I depend on anything but me ? No.........!
Advice: Don't solely depend on that 401 K.........!
I don't solely depend on the 401k. I also hope to have housing investments (rental properties) a fully funded Roth IRA in totally different investments than my 401k, and the contributions that my wife makes to her 401k again, totally different investments.

It's all about diversity to survive the down times...and quite a bit of luck.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:10   #68
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And for that, they are paid.
Lol, fair enough. I know we will not agree on retirement plans for people so there is no need to go any further.

I put food in my own mouth. I seeked out a job with pay and benefits that I wanted. I went to school for years to do what I do, I worked for 7 bucks an hour as an EMT and was a volunteer fireman for years. Nobody came over one day when I was getting out of high school and gave me my job.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:11   #69
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Yeah what a drag. You can pick up the phone and in 4-6 minutes people will be at your door ready to help you, no matter the problem. Its the most instant return of your money you will ever get in government.
As someone else has already stated...these people are compensated for their time. If they weren't being paid enough, then people wouldn't accept the job. It's the laws of economics at work.

I don't agree with changing the agreed to terms when these people are already 25 years into their career. But for the young guys, it has to change or we're all going to be bankrupt.

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Old 10-14-2012, 11:15   #70
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Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post
As someone else has already stated...these people are compensated for their time. If they weren't being paid enough, then people wouldn't accept the job. It's the laws of economics at work.

I don't agree with changing the agreed to terms when these people are already 25 years into their career. But for the young guys, it has to change or we're all going to be bankrupt.
Our labor group is negotiating to tier our benefits as I type this. Not all unions are evil, we are trying to bridge the gap as well. We have taken numerous pay cuts, we are trying to do our part.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:17   #71
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As someone else has already stated...these people are compensated for their time. If they weren't being paid enough, then people wouldn't accept the job. It's the laws of economics at work.

I don't agree with changing the agreed to terms when these people are already 25 years into their career. But for the young guys, it has to change or we're all going to be bankrupt.
SHhhhhhhh ! We already are , they just ain't tellin.
Why do you think gold went from $400 ozs. to over $1600 ?

Again , SHhhhhh !

Last edited by dango; 10-14-2012 at 11:18..
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:19   #72
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SHhhhhhhh ! We already are , they just ain't tellin.
Why do you think gold went from $400 ozs. to over $1600 ?

Again , SHhhhhh !
Well, I'm not bankrupt...
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:19   #73
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You probably also see money being taken out for "Income Tax". Planning to file for that too?
Yeah , Thanks again for footing the bill.........!
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:23   #74
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Lol, fair enough. I know we will not agree on retirement plans for people so there is no need to go any further.

I put food in my own mouth. I seeked out a job with pay and benefits that I wanted. I went to school for years to do what I do, I worked for 7 bucks an hour as an EMT and was a volunteer fireman for years. Nobody came over one day when I was getting out of high school and gave me my job.
Nobody came over one day when I was getting out of High School and gave me my job?
Hmmmmmmmm.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:30   #75
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Nobody came over one day when I was getting out of High School and gave me my job?
Hmmmmmmmm.
Thats when I started my career path. I got hired 5 years later, I did not dick around like most 18-22 year old folks do. I knew what I wanted to do.
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