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Old 10-12-2012, 15:59   #61
fnfalman
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So, give me some situations where as a cop or civilian, it's a good idea to shoot without positive ID?

How can you positive ID somebody without lighting them up with illuminated light? If there's enough ambient light for positive ID, then there's enough ambient light not to need tritium glow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Thats a gross oversimplification of all the scenarios you could possibly use a weapon in, and you know it.


Lights break, batterys die, or the situation could be such that using a weapon mounted light, isn't a good tactical choice.



Lights, do not cover the spectrum of instances where night sights can be useful.

nor do night sights, cover the spectrum of instances where a light is useful.


Yes, having a light, will, in alot of situations, remove your need for illuminated night sights. But it doesn't cover all of them.
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Old 10-12-2012, 16:13   #62
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I don't know about you, but I don't need a light, or ambient light to be able to tell if someone in my house, is supposed to be there or not.


Similarly, if there are multiple subjects, and they're not side by side, I can cover one of them with the weapon, and query them, without letting them know exactly where I am.




Since most house guns, do double duty as CCW's what if someone just doesn't happen to have his light on him, and returns home after work? In my case, my daily carry is the same as my night stand gun. The light sits on the night stand. When I take my uniform off, I put my light on, and the gun sits on the night stand unless I leave the house, at which case, it goes back to its carry config, as I have little need for a light on a CCW piece.

Again, what if your batterys fail? Or you smash the gun on something, when you hear that kick at the door. (yes, a bed foot board, will break the bezel on your X300)

They're all just tools, why limit yourself.
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Old 10-12-2012, 17:30   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
So, give me some situations where as a cop or civilian, it's a good idea to shoot without positive ID?
What the hell are you talking about?

Do you even know?

Some serious trolling going on ITT.
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Last edited by Warp; 10-12-2012 at 17:32..
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:18   #64
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I'm getting a kick out of this thread, sitting here watching tv with my family, my Glock 26 on my hip

Rarely, only rarely, do I watch tv with a loaded shotgun on my lap
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:37   #65
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Anyone that feels they can safely clear a house in the dark without a light or engage a person without a light in the same situation has little to no experience with either. It is that simple.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:48   #66
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...I'll just let the dogs loose and aim a bit above the barking.

Sig line worthy!!


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I'll stick with the shotgun, I'm not into clearing buildings and stuff. It's for home protection.

Bingo. I prefer the Third World approach to house "clearing": one call on the megaphone for everyone to exit with their hands on their head. If not, grenades, full auto fire & then dogs in to lick up what remains.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:53   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
I don't know about you, but I don't need a light, or ambient light to be able to tell if someone in my house, is supposed to be there or not.
You a bad mamajama. However, there had been several recent reports of dads and husbands shooting their loved ones because they heard noises and saw silhouettes.

I suppose if you're single like me then whomever else in the house is fair game, but for people that live with others, that's a different story.

Quote:
Similarly, if there are multiple subjects, and they're not side by side, I can cover one of them with the weapon, and query them, without letting them know exactly where I am.
I can do that too with a gun/flashlight of which the flashlight not turned on but pointed in the general direction of the noises/silhouettes.

Quote:
Again, what if your batterys fail? Or you smash the gun on something, when you hear that kick at the door. (yes, a bed foot board, will break the bezel on your X300)

They're all just tools, why limit yourself.
Tritium vials don't break either, huh?
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:54   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
What the hell are you talking about?

Do you even know?

Some serious trolling going on ITT.
You're the one that claims you can positive ID targets without the use of ambient or illuminated lights.
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Old 10-12-2012, 20:33   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
You're the one that claims you can positive ID targets without the use of ambient or illuminated lights.
Smells like libel.

Please substantiate this statement.
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Old 10-12-2012, 20:35   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
Smells like libel.

Please substantiate this statement.
Sounds like a lawyer.

Prove to me that tritium sight is worthwhile if you have to positive ID a target before taking a shot.
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Old 10-12-2012, 20:36   #71
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Virtually every single time I pick up my shotgun or one of my pistols to dry-run in my house at night, I can very easily identify targets/target areas yet only see the sites due to the tritium.

I have also shot outside at night where I could identify the target but would not be able to easily see sites that were not their own light source.

Sure, there are times it's too dark to ID a target without a light source. Sure, there are times it's kinda dark and you could see a fiber optic site.

But there are tons of times you can ID the target and the tritium lets you see your sites (or lets you pick them up more quickly)
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Old 10-12-2012, 20:39   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
Virtually every single time I pick up my shotgun or one of my pistols to dry-run in my house at night, I can very easily identify targets/target areas yet only see the sites due to the tritium.
So you claim that there's enough ambient light to positively ID people yet there isn't enough light to use non-tritium sight?

Okay...
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Old 10-12-2012, 21:01   #73
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I claim this: Virtually every single time I pick up my shotgun or one of my pistols to dry-run in my house at night, I can very easily identify targets/target areas yet only see the sites due to the tritium.

I have also shot outside at night where I could identify the target but would not be able to easily see sites that were not their own light source.

Sure, there are times it's too dark to ID a target without a light source. Sure, there are times it's kinda dark and you could see a fiber optic site.

But there are tons of times you can ID the target and the tritium lets you see your sites (or lets you pick them up more quickly)
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Old 10-12-2012, 22:28   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post


I can do that too with a gun/flashlight of which the flashlight not turned on but pointed in the general direction of the noises/silhouettes.
And doing so pinpoints your location to the people you're looking to identify. Where as remaining in the dark and calling out does not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Tritium vials don't break either, huh?
Pretty much made my argument for me. Because one can break, you should have something else as a backup.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbglock View Post
Anyone that feels they can safely clear a house in the dark without a light or engage a person without a light in the same situation has little to no experience with either. It is that simple.
Don't think anyone is advocating not using a light, what Warp and I were talking about, is having night sights on a gun with a light.
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Old 10-12-2012, 22:37   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post

Don't think anyone is advocating not using a light, what Warp and I were talking about, is having night sights on a gun with a light.
I don't think anybody is advocating not using a light, either.

He really likes his straw men, though.
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Old 10-12-2012, 22:59   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
And doing so pinpoints your location to the people you're looking to identify. Where as remaining in the dark and calling out does not.

Pretty much made my argument for me. Because one can break, you should have something else as a backup.

Don't think anyone is advocating not using a light, what Warp and I were talking about, is having night sights on a gun with a light.
Really?

Quote:
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And doing so pinpoints your location to the people you're looking to identify. Where as remaining in the dark and calling out does not.
Sounds like giving your position away and giving someone a good direction to shoot in.
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Old 10-12-2012, 23:40   #77
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Quote:
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Sounds like giving your position away and giving someone a good direction to shoot in.
Well, if the context is either calling out or turning on your light...don't they both do that?
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Old 10-13-2012, 00:14   #78
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Well, if the context is either calling out or turning on your light...don't they both do that?
Yep. I agree.
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Old 10-13-2012, 00:19   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbglock View Post
Sounds like giving your position away and giving someone a good direction to shoot in.
Back in my days, before the proliferation of night vision devices and such, we were taught to practice extreme noise & light discipline.

The enemy doesn't hear squat, doesn't see squat until you've already lit up on their asses.
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Old 10-13-2012, 00:21   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
And doing so pinpoints your location to the people you're looking to identify. Where as remaining in the dark and calling out does not.
How exactly does having a light but not turned on would pinpoint one's location?

Quote:
Don't think anyone is advocating not using a light, what Warp and I were talking about, is having night sights on a gun with a light.
Which brings back the question of necessity of the tritium sight since that you'd want enough ambient light to positively identify the target in a non-military, non-shoot-first-ask-question-later environment.
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