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Old 10-12-2012, 13:17   #41
AK_Stick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about.

You didn't suggest anything.....you shared your experiences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
Inside of 10 yards you can accurately engage most any target with plain black sights in total darkness. Did that many times with shotguns and handguns at several training facilities and unless you've done it you don't know what you don't know.



Big Bird by Verbal TKO in round 1




I will say this though, I still prefer tritium sights, because they appear black when the light is on, but glow when it isn't.

If the conflict moves from a dark, unlit area, to a say back lit area, say where the perp is running from a dark area, to an area with a light/backlight, the tritium will help you line up the shots/make a shot, if you're still in the dark area.
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Last edited by AK_Stick; 10-12-2012 at 13:19..
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Old 10-12-2012, 13:36   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Big Bird by Verbal TKO in round 1
If you think there was any suggestion on Big Bird's part, you're a complete ****ing retard.

Google it if you're confused.

There's a big difference between making a suggestion, and sharing experiences.
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Old 10-12-2012, 13:41   #43
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im·pli·ca·tion (mpl-kshn)
n.
1. The act of implicating or the condition of being implicated.
2. The act of implying or the condition of being implied.
3. Something that is implied, especially:
a. An indirect indication; a suggestion.
b. An implied meaning; implicit significance.
c. An inference. See Usage Note at infer.
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Old 10-12-2012, 13:45   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
Why does it have to be an either or situation?

Why not tritium sights AND a light?
Because in any non-low light situation, I, and many others, find a very thin front FO blade with all black rears so much superior in sight picture to anything else (even TFO'S).

Thin fronts with an intense FO are not possible with tritium, those fronts are typically stubby and wide.

To sum up: I'm moving towards getting my preferred fast "daylight" sight picture at night as well, by lighting the target up, and keeping those daylight sights, rather than compromising the sight picture with slower (to me) thick stubby fronts with a glowing tritium dot.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:05   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about.

You didn't suggest anything.....you shared your experiences.
What?!?!

Be honest...you were in the Marine Corps weren't you?

Try to keep up...

You should train with your shotgun and pistol shooting at people size targets with blackened sights in totally dark conditions. You will learn that you can easily and reliably hit people size targets inside of 10 yards. I promise, the experience will be "illuminating". Ooops, sorry. That means you will learn something.

Hint--keep your eyes open when you shoot the first shot. You won't believe what happens...
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:18   #46
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Originally Posted by 12131 View Post
About sums it up.

Almost.

What I would like to adress is the thought of clearing your house. I feel it's best to have a plan to hunker down in one spot if it's at all possible. For example, if your family sleeps up stairs and you are alerted to an intruder who has made it into hour house, a shotgun at the top of the stairs or perhaps behind a bookshelf in a hallway or designated room would be much more effective than a handgun, hands down. For most people and situations, clearing your house as if you were a highly trained expert is something that is referred to as fishing to be shot.

I can only imagine 99% of gun owners in the US have not attended a room clearing training course, and I don't see why they would. YMMV of course.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:19   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
What?!?!

Be honest...you were in the Marine Corps weren't you?

Try to keep up...

You should train with your shotgun and pistol shooting at people size targets with blackened sights in totally dark conditions. You will learn that you can easily and reliably hit people size targets inside of 10 yards. I promise, the experience will be "illuminating". Ooops, sorry. That means you will learn something.

Hint--keep your eyes open when you shoot the first shot. You won't believe what happens...
I have not tried that, actually shooting that is. I have tried non-tritium pistol sights in low-light conditions, but I haven't shot in total darkness at close ranges. Low light levels yes, total darknes no.

Are you saying that there is an optical trick happening after the first shot? At 10 yards you're close to a point & shoot situation anyways, but please expound.

Hell, if it's a cool trick, I'll try it soon, as it's getting dark here pretty damn early now. So it's dark before the range closes.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:23   #48
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Quote:
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im·pli·ca·tion (mpl-kshn)
n.
1. The act of implicating or the condition of being implicated.
2. The act of implying or the condition of being implied.
3. Something that is implied, especially:
a. An indirect indication; a suggestion.
b. An implied meaning; implicit significance.
c. An inference. See Usage Note at infer.
Yeah...that's what I thought........
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:36   #49
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I haven't read all this thread because of the bickering.

I agree with most of what Costa wrote. Most people that own a 12 ga shotgun can't handle it effectively and are better off with a handgun. I love shotguns. They have a place. For me though if someone has actually made it inside my house the first thing I'm grabbing is my Glock 23C and handheld Surefire Backup. I'll start from the bedroom and my house isn't that big. I know how precise I am with it and can't envision a situation where 13 rounds of .40 cal won't solve whatever problem is present. If it doesn't my AR is right by the bed so I'll just retreat back to the bedroom. Either way light is as important as any weapon. More important than night sights although I've finally found some I'm happy with. 24/7 Big Dot. After carrying my 23C with this site I'm not in the process of changing all my Glocks over to it. If you are an older shooter having problems focusing on the front site like you used to do I really recommend you try them out. I was skeptical about the accuracy of them at first but find I'm actually shooting more accurate than I was before with my Trijicon sights or Defoor.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:43   #50
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I hate articles like that one where the author assumes everyone lives in a small house or lives with other people.

My main two go to guns are a Mossberg 835 loaded with 3 1/2" 00buck and a Marlin 45-70 GG loaded with 325 gr leverlution ammo.
I'm now worrying about overpenetration.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:44   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
Why does it have to be an either or situation?

Why not tritium sights AND a light?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
Of course it can, but then you wasted a hundred bucks or more on a feature that isn't necessary. But then I spend a couple of hundred bucks on fancy wooden grips...
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:47   #52
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Why is it wasted? Neither is the ideal solution to all of the situations that you would use the other one for.


Simply having a light, does not mean that you can utilize it, in every given scenario.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:49   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Why is it wasted? Neither is the ideal solution to all of the situations that you would use the other one for.


Simply having a light, does not mean that you can utilize it, in every given scenario.
I was just thinking the same thing.

Plus, unfortunately, lights are far less reliable and dependable than a good set of tritium sights. Or a good firearm, for that matter

Some handgun uses are with one hand. Hope that flashlight is mounted to the gun in those cases.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:51   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Simply having a light, does not mean that you can utilize it, in every given scenario.
Like I said, if you're a GI then target ID doesn't mean squat. You can tell by the silhouette whether or not the intended is a GI. If not a GI, then bang! If it turns out to be mamasan instead of Haji/Charlie, then so sad too bad, c'est la guerre.

If you're a cop who tries this and shot somebody by mistake, you'd probably go to jail, censured, and be broke from civil lawsuit. Or all three.

If you're a civilian and shot at an unidentified target then chances are you may have shot grandma or junior.

In the two latter cases, tritium sight doesn't mean squat because you need to truly ID before firing.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:52   #55
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Quote:
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Some handgun uses are with one hand. Hope that flashlight is mounted to the gun in those cases.
That's an entirely different subject.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:54   #56
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post

If you're a civilian and shot at an unidentified target then chances are you may have shot grandma or junior.

In the two latter cases, tritium sight doesn't mean squat because you need to truly ID before firing.
Third time's the charm


"Virtually every single time I pick up my shotgun or one of my pistols to dry-run in my house at night, I can very easily identify targets/target areas yet only see the sites due to the tritium.

I have also shot outside at night where I could identify the target but would not be able to easily see sites that were not their own light source.

Sure, there are times it's too dark to ID a target without a light source. Sure, there are times it's kinda dark and you could see a fiber optic site.

But there are tons of times you can ID the target and the tritium lets you see your sites (or lets you pick them up more quickly)"
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Old 10-12-2012, 15:01   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Like I said, if you're a GI then target ID doesn't mean squat. You can tell by the silhouette whether or not the intended is a GI. If not a GI, then bang! If it turns out to be mamasan instead of Haji/Charlie, then so sad too bad, c'est la guerre.

If you're a cop who tries this and shot somebody by mistake, you'd probably go to jail, censured, and be broke from civil lawsuit. Or all three.

If you're a civilian and shot at an unidentified target then chances are you may have shot grandma or junior.

In the two latter cases, tritium sight doesn't mean squat because you need to truly ID before firing.

Thats a gross oversimplification of all the scenarios you could possibly use a weapon in, and you know it.


Lights break, batterys die, or the situation could be such that using a weapon mounted light, isn't a good tactical choice.



Lights, do not cover the spectrum of instances where night sights can be useful.

nor do night sights, cover the spectrum of instances where a light is useful.


Yes, having a light, will, in alot of situations, remove your need for illuminated night sights. But it doesn't cover all of them.
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Old 10-12-2012, 15:14   #58
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Lotta stupid in the thread since the last time I checked in, keep it up!
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Old 10-12-2012, 15:24   #59
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Thats a gross oversimplification of all the scenarios you could possibly use a weapon in, and you know it.


Lights break, batterys die, or the situation could be such that using a weapon mounted light, isn't a good tactical choice.



Lights, do not cover the spectrum of instances where night sights can be useful.

nor do night sights, cover the spectrum of instances where a light is useful.


Yes, having a light, will, in alot of situations, remove your need for illuminated night sights. But it doesn't cover all of them.
Agreed.

This is why my pistols all have night sites, my shotgun has night sights, and my AR has a red dot that is on 24/7/365...and my shotgun has a weaponlight, and my AR has a weaponlight, I keep a hand held light by my nightstand pistol, and I carry a quality handheld light at all times. (no light mounted to my pistols, though)

Neither does it ALL by itself.
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Old 10-12-2012, 15:36   #60
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I've always been a shotgun guy for home defense. I've got an AR on the way and that is going to take the shotgun's place for self defense. An AR and red dot just makes too much sense; 30 round magazine, low recoil and it does the best on not punching through walls. The other real big thing is I'll shoot it a lot more than the shotgun. I've gotten lazy about shooting a shotgun as I've gotten older.

If I get up to investigate a noise that is not the sound of one of my security doors being ripped out of the frame I'm going to take a pistol and a flashlight. The AR is going to be my hunker down gun.
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