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Old 10-12-2012, 08:51   #21
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Originally Posted by Merkavaboy View Post
Of what I have seen and read, the 9mm 115+P+ and the 357Mag 125JHP both penetrate 9-10" in ballistic gel tests. Since this doesn't meet the FBI's and IWBA's 12" minimum, they disregard these 2 loads as not being "worthy" of being an acceptable LEO or civilian SD loads (and yet they have DECADES of proven street performance). So much for the all mighty and wise FBI/IWBA "experts".
Exactly. You cant dispute the incredible track record of both those rounds in the street. THEY SIMPLY WORKED. I take what the Fbi says about performance of rounds with grain of salt.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:36   #22
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Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
They didn't pull 12" out of their ***. The fact is that 9-10" just isn't enough sometimes. Most of the time it may be. But the 12-18" standard came about for a reason.
I am afraid that is almost precisely what they did do. Their recomendations were based on untested theories about the nature of incpacitaion and an absolute refusal to listen to or consider anecdotal evidence. It can be said that The FBI had over reacted to the Florida shootout where another inch of penetration of one bullet might have saved the lives of FBI agents and that for the FBI there is considerably more interest in terminal balistics after penetrating car bodywork.

With regard to the latter it would have been better if they had specified penetration after passing through a sheet of steel rather than just adding more to the desired penetration. Any round will be far from optimum in some circumstances but the FBI and the ammunition companies following their specification have produced loadings which are far from optimum in the majority of cases.

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Old 10-12-2012, 13:57   #23
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Originally Posted by Warp View Post
You sure like to roll your eyes at other posters an awful lot.

I meant to pick this smilie:
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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