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Old 10-10-2012, 19:57   #26
doc540
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Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
Give me examples and explain how. Since I'm an Aimpoint micro fan give me an example of a better micro at a less expensive price than the H1.
Sure enough can't say it's "better", but the PA micro (when you can find one) runs about $80-$90, dramatically less then an H1.

What more could one want from a sight that's accurate, dependable, rugged, and does exactly what is was designed to do and keeps doing it for years?

And does it for about 1/5th the cost?

Look, if I was in combat or a LEO, I'd be paying five to ten times more than what I'm paying now for an civilian, occasional-use optic.

Apples and oranges

Good sight, decent price, performs well - I'm good with that.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:59   #27
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Originally Posted by Cole125 View Post
Personally I like having optics/rifles as good or better than what military and LE use.

By once, cry once.
I'll keep repeating it, but I doubt it matters:

I've owned multiple PA optics and used them for multiple years.

Never cried once - never had a problem with their products.
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:11   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole125 View Post
Personally I like having optics/rifles as good or better than what military and LE use.

By once, cry once.

I get issued an ACOG on my A4 rifle. I work on aircraft. That sight will never see more than dust and neglect. My rifle would probably be 100 percent fine with a lower cost optic or no optic at all.
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:13   #29
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Originally Posted by jeepinbandit View Post
I get issued an ACOG on my A4 rifle. I work on aircraft. That sight will never see more than dust and neglect. My rifle would probably be 100 percent fine with a lower cost optic or no optic at all.
I'll trade ya a PA optic of your choice straight up for that ACOG, and pay shipping both ways


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Old 10-11-2012, 08:07   #30
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Sure enough can't say it's "better", but the PA micro (when you can find one) runs about $80-$90, dramatically less then an H1.

What more could one want from a sight that's accurate, dependable, rugged, and does exactly what is was designed to do and keeps doing it for years?

And does it for about 1/5th the cost?

Look, if I was in combat or a LEO, I'd be paying five to ten times more than what I'm paying now for an civilian, occasional-use optic.

Apples and oranges

Good sight, decent price, performs well - I'm good with that.
Have you ran an Aimpoint such as the H1/T1 for any length of time? There's no comparison.

Last edited by mjkeat; 10-11-2012 at 08:09..
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:14   #31
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Have you ran an Aimpoint such as the H1/T1 for any length of time? There's no comparison.
I have not.

But, I'm interested to learn what an extra $400-$500 gets me for civilian/hobbyist use.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:24   #32
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I have not.

But, I'm interested to learn what an extra $400-$500 gets me for civilian/hobbyist use.
This is the problem. We probably shouldn't make judgment in cases like this if we have nothing to go off of.

The difference, as I stated before, is obvious at a glance. Once in hand the differences grow. Once on a rifle it's night and day. I like the PA Micro. I think it's the best of the inexpensive optics. I own 2. It is not, as other cheap optics, a replacement, just as good as, or equal to what it is mimicking.

In the world of optics, RDS more specifically you get what you pay for. I've tried them all looking for the cheap way out.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:03   #33
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Originally Posted by NeverMore1701 View Post
I'll trade ya a PA optic of your choice straight up for that ACOG, and pay shipping both ways


My Uncle Sam usually doesn't take well to people stealing his ****. The last guy I know that did it (A Gunny in the S-4 shop) got hauled off by NCIS and last I heard is spending a few years in Kansas. Guess he used to run the Armory at his last command and was squirreling away every part he could short of the lower receivers and selling them
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:44   #34
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This is the problem. We probably shouldn't make judgment in cases like this if we have nothing to go off of.

The difference, as I stated before, is obvious at a glance. Once in hand the differences grow. Once on a rifle it's night and day. I like the PA Micro. I think it's the best of the inexpensive optics. I own 2. It is not, as other cheap optics, a replacement, just as good as, or equal to what it is mimicking.

In the world of optics, RDS more specifically you get what you pay for. I've tried them all looking for the cheap way out.
Seriously, I'm not doubting you. I'd like to know the specifics of what's obvious at a glance and like night and day between them.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:19   #35
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Construction, materials, craftsmanship, workmanship, solid. Like slamming the door on a Yugo then a BMW, you know which is quality. There's also a psychological difference when you know your gear can out hustle you
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:44   #36
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Nice rifle. the optic looks like it's mounted backwards though.
really does look like a backward eothinggy.

Good to see though, I'm looking for some cheaper sights for a couple low priced builds I've stuck together from parts. I normally stick with primary arms but I'll look into this one.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:01   #37
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Construction, materials, craftsmanship, workmanship, solid. Like slamming the door on a Yugo then a BMW, you know which is quality. There's also a psychological difference when you know your gear can out hustle you
Can you describe how the actual optical parts differ? Is the glass and reticle/dot on the PA as crisp and clear as on the Aimpoint? Do they both have the same adjustments?
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:02   #38
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Can you describe how the actual optical parts differ? Is the glass and reticle/dot on the PA as crisp and clear as on the Aimpoint? Do they both have the same adjustments?
See below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
Construction, materials, craftsmanship, workmanship, solid. Like slamming the door on a Yugo then a BMW, you know which is quality. There's also a psychological difference when you know your gear can out hustle you
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:39   #39
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See below.
Can you please answer my specific questions?

Is the glass as clear and bright? Is the dot as crisp and clear? Are the optic adjustments similar?

I'm not asking about build quality, I want to know how it actually works for a human being with eyes.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:47   #40
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You won't see an 11B topping off his M4 w/ a Benchmark RDS. There's a reason. .
Yeah, it's called GI - General Issued. You get what you're issued.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:02   #41
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Yeah, it's called GI - General Issued. You get what you're issued.
Very true. How about the guys who are working for the same .mil yet can pick what gear they use? More often than not you'll see the same optics on their weapon systems. That speaks volumes to me.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:03   #42
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Can you please answer my specific questions?

Is the glass as clear and bright? Is the dot as crisp and clear? Are the optic adjustments similar?

I'm not asking about build quality, I want to know how it actually works for a human being with eyes.
How old were you when your mom finally stopped breast feeding? The info you are looking for has already been stated.
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Old 10-12-2012, 13:06   #43
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How old were you when your mom finally stopped breast feeding? The info you are looking for has already been stated.
How old were you when you flinked out of Logic 101?

You're weird dude, this is the second time you and I have done this run-around. You answer someone elses question in a general fashion. I subsequently ask a TOTALLY DIFFERENT question, and for some bizzare reason you think your previous answer to someone else's totally different question, answers mine.

WTF is wrong with you, can you not answer a simple couple of SPECIFIC questions?

Once again; How does the actual optical glass compare? How does the reticle/dot look between the two? Is the glass as clear? Is the reticle/dot as crisp?

If you answer that you've already answered these questions, you're a ****ing retard.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:34   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinbandit View Post
I get issued an ACOG on my A4 rifle. I work on aircraft. That sight will never see more than dust and neglect. My rifle would probably be 100 percent fine with a lower cost optic or no optic at all.


When things are going correctly.


Didn't we just have a Marine CO of a Harrier company die a few weeks ago in a gunfight?


You may just be an aircraft mechanic, but that doesn't mean your rifle will never see action.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:36   #45
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The PA micro I have has a very crisp and clear dot. The glass has a bluish tint to it but it's not that noticeable. It's as clear as looking though two pieces of glass gets.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:40   #46
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When things are going correctly.


Didn't we just have a Marine CO of a Harrier company die a few weeks ago in a gunfight?


You may just be an aircraft mechanic, but that doesn't mean your rifle will never see action.
Yup the CO and one of the Sergeants as well as all of their aircraft.

There's no telling how much money we spent getting all those optics on there and for the average Aviation Marine they aren't needed. The carry handle would work just fine and save a slim amount of weight. Hell we're getting Marines out of boot camp now that haven't even shot with iron sights now.

IIRC we pay about 5 or 600 dollars per RCO. Not sure how many we have no but I can't remember the last time I saw iron sights on the rifle range. Probably 08 or 09 time frame.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:45   #47
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Yeah, the carry handle would work just fine, right up till you actually have to get in a gunfight.

Just because you're an aircraft mechanic, doesn't mean you will never go outside the wire, or the danger will not come in.

There are a lot of non 0311's who've gone out of the wire, and put rounds down range. I even know an air-winger or two who's been part of aircraft recovery operations.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:45   #48
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The PA micro I have has a very crisp and clear dot. The glass has a bluish tint to it but it's not that noticeable. It's as clear as looking though two pieces of glass gets.
Thank you.

I did find a Youtube video directly comparing the PA and the H1/T1. Said exactly the same thing.

One point was that the Aimpoints came in either a 4MOA or 2 MOA dot, and the PA came with a 3MOA dot.

Seems like if you're not jumping out of planes over Afghanistan, one would serve it's function perfectly well.
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:46   #49
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Yup the CO and one of the Sergeants as well as all of their aircraft.

There's no telling how much money we spent getting all those optics on there and for the average Aviation Marine they aren't needed. The carry handle would work just fine and save a slim amount of weight. Hell we're getting Marines out of boot camp now that haven't even shot with iron sights now.

IIRC we pay about 5 or 600 dollars per RCO. Not sure how many we have no but I can't remember the last time I saw iron sights on the rifle range. Probably 08 or 09 time frame.
It's heartening to hear our folks are getting the good stuff as standard.
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Old 10-12-2012, 15:08   #50
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Yeah, the carry handle would work just fine, right up till you actually have to get in a gunfight.

Just because you're an aircraft mechanic, doesn't mean you will never go outside the wire, or the danger will not come in.

There are a lot of non 0311's who've gone out of the wire, and put rounds down range. I even know an air-winger or two who's been part of aircraft recovery operations.
Going out to fix downed helicopters is a common occurrence lol. They actually just had to go out to the Arizona Desert the other night with a maintenance crew to fix a Cobra that had to land out there due to a tail rotor problem.

I understand everything you are saying and get it but at the same time how many of those aircraft mechanics actually return fire or come under fire that isn't IDF?

It's pretty rare. I'm all for whatever they want to give us I'm just saying it's not really necessary for everyone to have a 600 dollar optic on top of their rifle. I put down the same argument for camoflauge uniforms when the subject comes up.

Edit- I could also see the argument that it's a supply issue. Everyone having the same optic, (though we use two different RCOs between the A4s and M4s and it's common to be issued a rifle with the wrong one) simplifies the supply chain.
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