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Old 10-11-2012, 20:55   #21
denn1911
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Although my first choice would be an AR, the shotgun is a devastating long gun. I wouldn't feel under gunned with it for my home.
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Old 10-11-2012, 20:57   #22
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Although my first choice would be an AR, the shotgun is a devastating long gun. I wouldn't feel under gunned with it for my home.
AR > shotgun > handgun > rabid weasel on duck taped to a stick for me.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:02   #23
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AR > shotgun > handgun > rabid weasel on duck taped to a stick for me.
Exactly. Shotgun for in the house, AR for outside the house, handgun for carry.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:08   #24
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He has valid points in his situation. Having a pistol with a light and suppressor will be very easy to maneuver when clearing a house. I have HK USP and a Mark 23 45 ACP, both with lights. However, I prefer a Carbine (Noveske Thunder Ranch with an Aimpoint T1), myself. More firepower, greater effectiveness, longer range, and greater accuracy. It can be fired one handed, if necessary. Follow up shots are much easier. Multiple attackers can be handled, if necessary. It doesn't have an issue with overpenetration as much as a pistol or shotgun.

A shotgun is great but maneuverability is more limited and really requires two hands. Sure you can mount a light but unless you have a clear shot, you'll be creating massive damage in the house - especially if you miss under stress. Problem is what type of spread you're dealing with, at a certain distance.

No single answer is going to fit every single person's household. Not every scenario will fit a single answer, either. Not to try to clear a house, like you're SWAT or Special Warfare, just ensure safety of all.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:08   #25
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I have handguns and long guns in position for use in my house, and I'm hesitant to split hairs over perceived advantages... In the even of a life threatening emergency, I'll be ecstatic if I have the ability to gain access to either which will put the offender in serious peril whether it be a handgun or scattergun..

Choose either weapon, have it immediately accessable, be proficient, and don't hesitate... A confident and forthcoming defender of his home will be gravely dangerous even with a semi-auto .22 rifle, and I say that without reservation.. It's certainly not nearly my first choice, but if it's what I can place in hand at a seconds notice the bad guy will have his work cut out for him..
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:46   #26
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I keep my double barrel with buckshot in the kitchen, since I would most likely encounter an outdoor threat trying to come in from that way, so I could use the spread of the buck.

In my bedroom, at the end of a long hall, I keep my .45 and AK. Try to advance down the hall, and you'll meet hot lead in high power form.

Plus I've got a 60lb pit bull that loves me dearly. Bring it on ding dong.


My point is there is never a catch all solution to a complex problem like personal security.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:09   #27
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...But there are tons of times you can ID the target and the tritium lets you see your sites (or lets you pick them up more quickly)
I agree Warp. Running a pistol in low-light with night sights and then doing the same with a pistol without them, the advantage of having them becomes readily apparent.

In addition, having personally broken multiple fiber optic front sight beads in what are essentially quality made sights (twice with both Novaks and TFO's) I remain unconvinced that fiber optic front sights are durable enough for serious use.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:57   #28
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Nothing Costas wrote alters my thoughts on firearms and HD....I would still use a 12GA like a 930SPX, and I'll probably get one next year.

I am an AR fan, so that is what I shoot. A 16" barrel and M193 ammo is an ugly efficient combo, threat stopping wise. But at close ranges an 12GA would be even more devistating. And both an AR and a 12GA will wreck your hearing, so that's a draw.

Pistol? Not if I have an AR or 12ga at hand. Pistols are for CCW, and getting to your long-gun.

And I have used tritium night sights on all of my pistols, and for HD/SD can't imagine not having them. The are much, much better than standard sights in low light conditions.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:02   #29
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Inside of 10 yards you can accurately engage most any target with plain black sights in total darkness. Did that many times with shotguns and handguns at several training facilities and unless you've done it you don't know what you don't know.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:10   #30
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Inside of 10 yards you can accurately engage most any target with plain black sights in total darkness. Did that many times with shotguns and handguns at several training facilities and unless you've done it you don't know what you don't know.
You do know that anyone can turn off the lights at night and see what using iron sights without tritium/FO is like, right?

Sure, you could use them at night.....doesn't mean it's a good idea when there are other options available.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:28   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthpawG26 View Post
On the topic of unconventional advice, both Chris and Travis Haley (and Bill Wilson, for that matter) seem to moving away from tritium night sights to black rears/fiber optic fronts, in conjunction with either flashlight or weaponlight.
Because they realized that tritium sight doesn't identify the target. I've always questioned the use of tritium sight for non-military type. With the military, you don't care about identifying target. You know who your enemies are and what their silhouettes/profiles look like. You see a silhouette, sights on target, BLAM!!!

Do that at home and you might have just shot grandma.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:38   #32
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Because they realized that tritium sight doesn't identify the target. I've always questioned the use of tritium sight for non-military type. With the military, you don't care about identifying target. You know who your enemies are and what their silhouettes/profiles look like. You see a silhouette, sights on target, BLAM!!!

Do that at home and you might have just shot grandma.
I agree, it's not a tritium or no tritium question for me, it's tritium vs flashlight/weaponlight for HD. Even if I see my sights, that's not enough for a "good shoot". I need to identify the target as well, and the tritium doesn't help me with that. Sure, there are instances in which I can identify the target 10 yards out in the dark. But then in those cases, I wouldn't have needed the tritium anyway.

So I need a light. And if I need a light, any old sight is clear against the lit background.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:50   #33
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I'd listen to Louis Awerbuck before I'd listen to Chris Costa...just sayin'...
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:56   #34
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You do know that anyone can turn off the lights at night and see what using iron sights without tritium/FO is like, right?

Sure, you could use them at night.....doesn't mean it's a good idea when there are other options available.
Have you ever done what I suggested?
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:17   #35
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Because they realized that tritium sight doesn't identify the target. I've always questioned the use of tritium sight for non-military type. With the military, you don't care about identifying target. You know who your enemies are and what their silhouettes/profiles look like. You see a silhouette, sights on target, BLAM!!!

Do that at home and you might have just shot grandma.
Why does it have to be an either or situation?

Why not tritium sights AND a light?

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Old 10-12-2012, 11:24   #36
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On the topic of unconventional advice, both Chris and Travis Haley (and Bill Wilson, for that matter) seem to moving away from tritium night sights to black rears/fiber optic fronts, in conjunction with either flashlight or weaponlight.

Once again I have to say, there may be something to it. I'm surely in the minority on this one, but I have indeed started to question the advantage of tritium sights more and more, based on low light training and shooting experiences...

It boils down to the fact that it needs to be really dark to see the tritium, so dark that you cannot identify a target at 7-10yards out. So you'll need a light for target identification. And once you use a light (flash and move, don't use a WML at anything other than a potential threat yadayadayada..), the tritium is worthless, and you do just as well with conventional black sights.
Well, Kyle Defoor uses all black sights as well as he likes them better than trit sights at the moment. Ok, but what works for them does not necessarily work for me. I don't know what you consider to be really dark or what your night vision is like, but I can see my night sights in my house at night with all the lights out and I can identify people and objects clearly as well. Night sights were always meant for low light conditions, not black out conditions. They aren't and never were suppose to be a replacement for a white light.

Second, if I have night sights and don't need them, they in essence become sights with dots in them. That's fine as I don't pay attention to the sight dots in lighted conditions on any pistol. If for some reason, I need night sights and have plain black or fiber optic sights, they're not going to magically become night sights. Also, if you all have is handheld light and you drop it or, or if the batteries go dead on your white light, then what? You're not going to see your all black sights in low light.

I've tried all black sights, black rear with trit front and, two dot night sights and three night sights. By far I prefer the three dot night sights because they work for me. I've had low light training in the past as well. Have shot at night with all those different types of sights. Have shot at night with and without a white light. You can make things work if you have to, but for me, I don't see a reason not have them.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:47   #37
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"Virtually every single time I pick up my shotgun or one of my pistols to dry-run in my house at night, I can very easily identify targets/target areas yet only see the sites due to the tritium.

I have also shot outside at night where I could identify the target but would not be able to easily see sites that were not their own light source.

Sure, there are times it's too dark to ID a target without a light source. Sure, there are times it's kinda dark and you could see a fiber optic site.

But there are tons of times you can ID the target and the tritium lets you see your sites (or lets you pick them up more quickly)"
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Old 10-12-2012, 13:05   #38
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Costa's views match mine in this case. I utilize a pistol because I have 2 small children and some tight corners in my home in specific areas that I feel a smart home invader may try to capitalize on. I need the free hand and ability to be very fast and compact. For me, my family, and my home, a long gun is not the best choice.
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Old 10-12-2012, 13:14   #39
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Have you ever done what I suggested?
I have no idea what you're talking about.

You didn't suggest anything.....you shared your experiences.
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Old 10-12-2012, 13:16   #40
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Quote:
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All handguns suck and I remain unconvinced by the CQB prowess of the AR when only one is in play. What am I supposed to use?


the failure of this line of thought, is that you're relying upon the shotgun to be a 1 shot show stopper at CQB distances.



And while the shotgun is effective, it simply is not a 1 shot show stopper. Nothing is, and we have seen proof over and over that it isn't.

If you have to engage more than one target, one target repeatedly, etc, the shotgun quickly takes a back seat.
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