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Old 10-11-2012, 23:31   #101
MAC702
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Screw it. I never shot an Indian, never owned a slave and never interned a japanese.

I don't feel a bit guilty re the real or imagined mistakes of my ancestors. It's all ancient history.
Nor do I. You do not need to feel personally guilty to recognize that someone has been severely wronged.
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:32   #102
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Originally Posted by jollygreen View Post
Screw it. I never shot an Indian, never owned a slave and never interned a japanese.
Good for you.

Quote:
I don't feel a bit guilty re the real or imagined mistakes of my ancestors.
As long as you don't plan to do any of those things yourself, there's absolutely no reason for you to feel guilty.
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It's all ancient history.
Dude, a lot of those people are still ALIVE. It's not that ancient.
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:34   #103
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Originally Posted by FLIPPER 348 View Post
Dude, it was war and a different time. (we were attacked BTW)
We were attacked on september 11th. Should we round up everyone that is of middle eastern descent and keep them caged? How bout during the war of 1812, lock up everyone of British descent?
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:36   #104
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We were attacked on september 11th. Should we round up everyone that is of middle eastern decent and keep them caged?

Another 9/11 or worse attack and we might find out.
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:45   #105
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Another 9/11 or worse attack and we might find out.
Some ignorant dip****s will still torch a few convenience stores and motels, but an (insert bad guy race/ethnicity) round-up is as likely as a national firearms confiscation. HH
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:48   #106
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I hope y'all are 1/2 as upset about what 'we' did to the Native Americans.
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:56   #107
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I hope y'all are 1/2 as upset about what 'we' did to the Native Americans.
\

Were they American citizens at the time of their interment? HH
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:57   #108
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No, they were just living here!
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:01   #109
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I hope y'all are 1/2 as upset about what 'we' did to the Native Americans.
427 is of casino indian and spanish european descent and he's cool with everybody.

427 objects to what the modern .gov has done, is doing, and will do to American citizens in the name of perceived "security."
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:03   #110
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I hope y'all are 1/2 as upset about what 'we' did to the Native Americans.
I'm not proud of it. However, we should know better now. That is, except for a few individuals who think prejudice superseds that US Constitution.

We're supposed to learn from history.
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:03   #111
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I hope y'all are 1/2 as upset about what 'we' did to the Native Americans.
Yes, but there is just no easy way to describe it then or since.

America is better when viewed for what we proclaim, not so much what we did, don't you know.
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:12   #112
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I'm not proud of it. However, we should know better now. That is, except for a few individuals who think prejudice superseds that US Constitution.

We're supposed to learn from history.


It was not prejudice, it was National Security. Have you ever thought it might have been beneficial to the war effort and our victory??
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:16   #113
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It was not prejudice, it was National Security. Have you ever thought it might have been beneficial to the war effort and our victory??
How so? HH
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:23   #114
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I don't know. I'm asking the question.
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:25   #115
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It was not prejudice, it was National Security.
This is a statement, not a question. Again, how so? HH
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:26   #116
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This is a statement, not a question. Again, how so? HH

– The attack on Pearl Harbor severely damaged our Pacific forces and brought America into WW2 – on the side that was currently losing. And this was not like the Gulf War or Vietnam, we could not simply choose to “go home” and end the war. Losing would have likely meant — at some point — marauding Axis armies marching through the countryside raping, murdering, and pillaging everything in their path. The stakes don’t get any higher than they were in a conflict like World War 2.

– On December 11th of 1941, the freighter SS Lahaina was sunk by a Japanese sub off of Honolulu. Another Japanese sub sank the SS Manini in Hawaiian waters 6 days later. On December 18th, another sub sank the SS Prusa near the “big island”. Several other December attacks occurred within 20 miles of the California and Oregon coastlines. On February 23rd, a Japanese sub shelled the Ellwood oil fields in Goleta, California. At least one “high ranking Japanese military official–Admiral Tamon Yamaguchi…was eager to carry the war to the U.S. mainland”.

Secretary of War Henry Stimson also wrote this in his diary on February 10, 1942

“…I think it is quite within the bounds of possibility that if the Japanese should get naval dominance in the Pacific they would try an invasion of this country; and, if they did, we would have a tough job meeting them.”

In other words, Japanese forces were close and the danger to our homeland was very real.

– Richard Kotoshirodo, a Japanese American and John Mikami, who was Japanese, gathered extensive amounts of information while they were spying that was very helpful to the Japanese forces that attacked Pearl Harbor. Japanese-Americans (Yoshio and Irene Harada) aided a Japanese pilot who landed at Niihau island, Hawaii after being shot down while attacking Pearl Harbor.

Cables decoded from the Japanese in May 1941 said in part,

“We have already established contacts with absolutely reliable Japanese in the San Pedro and San Diego area, who will keep a close watch on all shipments of airplanes and other war materials…”

That same cable also stated that the Japanese had Japanese-American spies in the Army and that they were watching traffic crossing the American / Mexican border.

A January 3rd, 1942 army MID memo states, “‘there can be no doubt that’ most of the leaders within the Japanese espionage network of Japanese clubs, business groups, and labor organizations “continue to function as key operatives for the Japanese government along the West Coast”.

So we knew that the Japanese had a spy network in America before Pearl Harbor and we believed it was still operating after the attacks.

– While we clearly couldn’t trust citizens of Japan (or other Axis nations) to run around unsupervised while we were in the middle of a fight to the finish with their home-countries (hence the 11,229 Japanese citizens, 10,905 German citizens, 3,728 Italian citizens and a few others who were rounded up and interned), American born citizens were of course a different matter. Certainly, most of them were loyal. Curtis Munson who was been sent to investigate the issue, estimated that 90-98% of Japanese-Americans could be trusted (although he had his doubts about 9000 Kibei — Japanese-Americans schooled in Japan).

However, Munson also noted that even a very small number of saboteurs could do a cataclysmic damage to the war effort,

“…The harbor at San Pedro could be razed by fire completely by four men with grenades and a little study in one night. Dams could be blown and half of lower California might actually die of thirst. One railway bridge at the exit from the mountains in some cases could tie up three or four main railroads…”

Here’s more on the damage that could be caused by saboteurs from Provost Marshal General Allen Gullion,

“If production for war is seriously delayed by sabotage in the West Coastal states, we very possibly shall lose the war….from reliable reports from military and other sources, the danger of Japanese-inspired espionage is great.”

– America and other nations traditionally interned “enemy aliens” during wars. For example, in World War 1 more than 6300 “European-born civilians” were interned. Moreover, Mexico and Canada both chose to move ethnic Japanese away from their coasts. Also, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that interning Japanese citizens was constitutional.



– Last but not least, there were no easy options for dealing with the situation. Mere monitoring of suspect Japanese citizens would have likely be too difficult given the number of people involved, the consequences of failure, and the demands of a world war. Criminal prosecutions of suspected spies would have been nearly impossible because intelligence sources couldn’t be revealed and it would be extraordinarily difficult to prove someone who was say simply watching ship movements (so they could later report them) was committing a crime. Another possibility would have been some sort of “quasi-judicial military tribunal,” but there would have been constitutional questions about that and it couldn’t possibly be as effective as evacuating and/or interning Japanese-Americans along the West Coast.
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:32   #117
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Dude, a lot of those people are still ALIVE. It's not that ancient.
The blacks got affirmative action, plus several trillions of dollars of guilt money (none of which they have been able to use to improve their station in life). The japanese got reparations. Indians get special hunting and casino privileges.

All that with my tax dollars. I've paid enough and could care less.
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:32   #118
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The Second Amendment exists to prevent the government from rounding people up and putting them in camps.
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:43   #119
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It was not prejudice, it was National Security. Have you ever thought it might have been beneficial to the war effort and our victory??
In the name of national security it's cool for the .gov to conduct CBRN experiments on the unsuspecting American public.

American nuclear guinea pigs : three decades of radiation experiments on U.S. citizens
http://contentdm.library.unr.edu/cdm...REC=1#metajump

Atomic Energy Commission's Declassification Review of Reports on Human Experiments and the Public Relations and Legal Liability Consequences
https://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/radiat...ab_i/br9i2.txt

Tuskegee, a Cloud Over Research
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092603126.html

U.S. apologizes for newly revealed syphilis experiments done in Guatemala
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews



In the name of national security the ..gov can do anything.
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:44   #120
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It was not prejudice, it was National Security. Have you ever thought it might have been beneficial to the war effort and our victory??
Most historians and the US Supreme Court disagree with you.

The Italian shipbuilders on the East coast posed much more of a threat than Japanese Women and Children Nobody put them in interment camps. It was suspected that the Italians were responsible for the many acts of sabotage during WW2.

It took a government agreement with the Mafia to keep them in line.

Do you think the government should take our guns during national emergencies?
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:51   #121
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the US Supreme Court disagree with you.
And we really want to use the supreme court as a barometer of morality and ethics?

I don't think so.
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:59   #122
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And we really want to use the supreme court as a barometer of morality and ethics?

I don't think so.
No.

I'm using their decision to add credence to the legal fact that rounding up folks indiscriminately is against the Constitution.

If you're going to quote me, please quote the complete sentence.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:07   #123
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You know what? Lets just cut the bull#### and have a show of hands:

How many here think that the American government should be able to inter American citizens based solely on ethnicity?

The fact that I'm asking this on a gun board of all places, where everyone is usually always about personal freedoms and anti-governmental tyranny, is truly sad.
Perfect.
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:21   #124
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Believed by who?

They were CITIZENS. They get to vote. They were people, just like you, whose ancestors came to this great nation, just like yours, in search of a better life. What makes you more of an American than "them"?
Nothing does. Like I said, it wasn't perfect. But to express the guilt that's going on in this thread over it is odd. Few of us here have experienced an actual foreign military force attacking our country, or seeing the destruction that was going on across Europe and Asia at the time.

It was believed by those making the declaration of war against Japan and who were charged with repelling a foreign force from our land.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:59   #125
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I will try to stop by gun show this weekend at the site of former internment camp in Puyallup WA.
Big deal!

A whole lot more Americans died in planned parenthood office you drive by then at that internment camp.
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