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Old 10-11-2012, 00:38   #201
JuneyBooney
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That is not a "study" that is a sales pitch.

Pure BS.
I fully agree.
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Old 10-11-2012, 00:39   #202
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Please elaborate on #1. Exactly what recovery are you speaking about that is needed "between shots"? How long is this recovery and what biochemical processes need to occur? Which vx require how much "recovery"?
Would be interesting to see if he actually takes you up on any of these questions. I would offer a few questions of my own that would require some research to answer, but I think it would be a waste of my time. You can't teach someone who refuses to be taught.

As to his second point, it seems that people think that once we graduate med school, the sun is always shining and money rains out of the sky. I haven't looked at the typical office visit reimbursement in a while, but I think a basic office visit is reimbursed at a level of around $80, and I think it almost doubles for a very complex visit. So needless to say the "stupid half retarded doctor" is making very little for the time it takes to stick a needle into a squirming, screaming kid, do an exam, and answer his mother's questions/concerns. I guess he thinks the pediatrician wipes his ass with $100 bills. There is a reason why no student right now wants to go into primary care. It simply does not pay, and some government programs are actually paying off the loans of people who agree to practice medicine in underserved areas for X number of years. That's how bad it has gotten. Luckily for me, I never have to even remotely consider the primary care specialties. Therefore hopefully I will be less exposed to the kind of weapons-grade stupidity that we see in this thread.

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Old 10-11-2012, 01:15   #203
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Would be interesting to see if he actually takes you up on any of these questions. I would offer a few questions of my own that would require some research to answer, but I think it would be a waste of my time. You can't teach someone who refuses to be taught.
My point being, his notions are based on nothing. He just made it up. You don't have to research it because the research has been done by others and the protocols set accordingly. He, on the other hand, just believes something based on nothing and without regard to fact of any kind.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:24   #204
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My point being, his notions are based on nothing. He just made it up. You don't have to research it because the research has been done by others and the protocols set accordingly. He, on the other hand, just believes something based on nothing and without regard to fact of any kind.
Right. That's why I am hoping if people are forced to research the right things, they may actually learn something useful in the process. You and I are able to discern valid sources from BS. It seems that most here can not.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:36   #205
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That's because a much more compelling argument for the apparent increase in autism is simple over-diagnosis. Thirty years ago, a child would not be diagnosed as autistic unless he was sitting in the corner rocking back and forth while being largely unresponsive to normal stimuli. Today, if little Timmy daydreams to much in class he gets diagnosed as mildly autistic (or ADHD) and handed a prescription.
With precursors still in play, or doubt if one is on your side of the fence, it appears that genetics is still a MAJOR factor in a child's susceptibility to autism per being vaccinated.

The jury is still out, but if hereditary dispositions are shown to be a factor in autism rates after receiving the vaccinations, wouldn't that still make autism rates directly attributable to the vaccines themselves?

Simply put, and this is just to pick one as it has not been determined yet, but let's say for the purpose and reason of argument, we somehow find that babies/children with Irish descent and or ancestry are the most susceptible to the onset of autism after receiving a vaccine (i.e., not true, but for the sake of argument). The rest of the world's population may not have a problem, but genes are the primary suspect at this point for some studies.

Irrefutably there is a direct link between vaccines and autism, but the factor for the link is what is puzzling scientists at this point. We may find it ultimately comes down to the factor of "who's your daddy?!?"
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Thanks Geko, exactly what I was about to post in response to PW.

SMASH gng ignorance!!!
That is so rich coming from you in particular. *giggles*
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Most likely be a lot less liberals running around screwing things up.
Oh no you didunt!
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:44   #206
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Interesting thread.

In almost every other thread that touches on government intervention and "mandating" things, everyone here, including many in this thread rises up, thumps their chests, and shouts about tyranny and the gov't screwing up perfectly good programs, they should keep their nose out of the business of private citizens, etc. But when it comes to vaccines, suddenly it's a good thing.

Just did a 30-second google search, and came up with two parents that tried to refuse vaccinating their kids, and were told to appear in court and either subject their children to on-the-spot, state-mandated vaccines of up to 17 doses, or face imprisonment. Also, if they ignored the court's demand, they would also be subject to a $50 fine for each day their child was “out of compliance” or up to 10 days in jail.

So, which is it? Is government intervention a good thing or not?
AG,

This is the internet dammit! Stop trying to make sense of it all!







































But seriously, you're unequivocally SPOT ON Sir!
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:59   #207
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Alright, how about this. Should a truly autistic child be able to 'outgrow' the condition? It was my understanding that autism was incurable. The study below (2012) looked at children that were orignally given a diagnosis on the autism spectrum, but later no longer met the critieria for ASD. The study identified other factors that may have contributed to the change in diagnosis.
Have you read this book yet?


Louder Than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism - jenny mccarthy

Part of her "sabbatical," in Ponte Vedra, Fla., was putting forth the time to write this book. I personally never met jenny when she was in Ponte Vedra, Fla., but one particular parent from that area comes to mind. I've have met parent's of autistic children, but this particular parent also lives in the Ponte Vedra area. She and her husband had ZERO problems in their multi-child family until their youngest, IIRC, received mandatory vaccination. Then the autism started...

These particular parents comes to mind as they are awesome people that 110% support each other and their autistic daughter, which is not unlike the battle that jenny went through with her child (i.e., son). These parents also live in Ponte Vedra, and they also met jenny during her tenure in the area. The person I met is a woman, a wife, and a mother whose entire family has been devastated by these vaccines being forced on her child. Her daughter was PERFECT until after receiving the vaccines.

Anyway, read the book jenny mccarthy wrote before you personally decide what is going on with vaccines versus autism.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:57   #208
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If I'm your insurance provider, and you ask me to pay for your kid's polio treatment, my first response would be..."please hold while I review your child's vaccination record....No. This cost is on you."

My home insurance won't pay if I blow up my house running a math lab. My car insurance won't pay if I'm running it on the local dirt track on weekends. Why should my health insurance pay for an otherwise preventable disease? You're not being denied healthcare...you're just being denied having someone else pay for it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:51   #209
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Have you read this book yet?


Louder Than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism - jenny mccarthy

Part of her "sabbatical," in Ponte Vedra, Fla., was putting forth the time to write this book. I personally never met jenny when she was in Ponte Vedra, Fla., but one particular parent from that area comes to mind. I've have met parent's of autistic children, but this particular parent also lives in the Ponte Vedra area. She and her husband had ZERO problems in their multi-child family until their youngest, IIRC, received mandatory vaccination. Then the autism started...

These particular parents comes to mind as they are awesome people that 110% support each other and their autistic daughter, which is not unlike the battle that jenny went through with her child (i.e., son). These parents also live in Ponte Vedra, and they also met jenny during her tenure in the area. The person I met is a woman, a wife, and a mother whose entire family has been devastated by these vaccines being forced on her child. Her daughter was PERFECT until after receiving the vaccines.

Anyway, read the book jenny mccarthy wrote before you personally decide what is going on with vaccines versus autism.
Yes, we should all form our opinion based on a book written by somebody who started off doing Playboy, has no medical or research background, nor is backed up by any legitimate research. In fact, goes against all research. Because she is a celebrity and clearly knows what she is talking about. The stupidity here is reaching epic proportions. And since you are presenting anecdotal evidence of one person who claims to have autism from vaccines, I will provide anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I have probably had more vaccines than most people here, including vaccines from a 3rd world country that are not used here, and I am not autistic nor do I have any health issues.

But I'll play along for a bit: what vaccines did the daughter receive, when did she receive them, and at what age was she diagnosed with autism? Also, please tell me the typical age at which autism is diagnosed, and correlate it to the vaccines that she received which supposedly caused her autism. Somehow I doubt that I'll get a response from you.

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Old 10-11-2012, 07:49   #210
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Vaccinate your children, don't listen to morons without medical training.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:57   #211
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The OP trusts people without proper training? Hope you never need heart surgery. I've never had mumps, measles, polio, diphtheria, or tetanus. Not to mention the major flu epidemics and I'm immune suppressed. I'd say the vaccinations worked well for me and my children........ DOC
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:37   #212
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Have you read this book yet?


Louder Than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism - jenny mccarthy

Part of her "sabbatical," in Ponte Vedra, Fla., was putting forth the time to write this book. I personally never met jenny when she was in Ponte Vedra, Fla., but one particular parent from that area comes to mind. I've have met parent's of autistic children, but this particular parent also lives in the Ponte Vedra area. She and her husband had ZERO problems in their multi-child family until their youngest, IIRC, received mandatory vaccination. Then the autism started...

These particular parents comes to mind as they are awesome people that 110% support each other and their autistic daughter, which is not unlike the battle that jenny went through with her child (i.e., son). These parents also live in Ponte Vedra, and they also met jenny during her tenure in the area. The person I met is a woman, a wife, and a mother whose entire family has been devastated by these vaccines being forced on her child. Her daughter was PERFECT until after receiving the vaccines.

Anyway, read the book jenny mccarthy wrote before you personally decide what is going on with vaccines versus autism.
To further what Sputnik767 said:

Anyone who bases medical decisions on the self-serving moonbat ramblings of a woman whose principle accomplishments are picking her nose, taking her clothes off, and f---ing Jim Carey (although not, necessarily, all at once) needs to take a hard look at what is missing from his own life.

Jenny McCarthy has done more to harm children than any single person I can think of in recent history. In her search for a cause of her own child's autism, she, and her freak-show accomplices on the ladies' talk show circuit (Oprah et al) convinced an entire generation of average intelligence women that worrying about baseless assertions and statistically insignificant side-effects in life-saving vaccines was more important than following the advice of millions of doctors with hundreds of millions of hours of peer-reviewed study, evidence, and results behind them.

Peace Warrior, with your promotion of Jenny McCarthy, you discredit both your cause and yourself.

Link to the Jenny McCarthy Body Count

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Old 10-11-2012, 10:09   #213
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I've been in and out of reading this thread since day one, and just had a thought today. I have a nephew who is autistic - he wasnt diagnosed until he was maybe three or four. I also have a good friend who's oldest child, nearly four, is showing symptoms of autism (true autism) but their doctor has been reluctant to diagnose her as such.

That said, having been around two young autistics for years, having a young child myself and having worked for a Texas Children's Medicaid provider for years, has anyone thought about the corelation of when a child is diagnosed to when vaccinations are administered?

In one report I read last year some time, a family said that their young (under 12 month) child showed symtpoms of austism right after a vacination. Well, considering the periodicity of vacinations for a young, under 12 month child can be anywhere from one month appart to two months appart, wouldn't any month technically be "immediately after a vacination" ?

I dont have the chart in front of me, but you basically get one series at birth, one about a month out, and then one set every month or two months up until age 18 months. After that it's about once a year if you consider Flu shots.

In short - when are these children getting diagnosed as autistic? Is it during the phase when a child gets a shot frequently, or is it later on in life? If it's during the first 12 months, couldn't "displaying symptoms after a vacine" be a coincidence since vacinations at that young age are close together?
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:06   #214
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1. I'm not sure how not vaccinating anyone, i.e., "DON'T do it," is a rational response unless you simply don't believe in the efficacy of vaccinations for whatever reason.

2. There are, of course, many people that get vaccinations because that's what's recommended with nary a thought to risk. But everyone who gets vaccinated assumes a risk, and people that don't get vaccinated benefit from that whether they want to or not. And I'm sorry, but putting doctor in scare quotes and suggesting that people getting vaccinated are being led to the slaughter is ridiculous.

I think we can at least agree that we'd all be better off if people took a vested interest in their health and researched treatments recommended (or not) by caregivers.

Vaccines are not bad, our perversion of them is, don't be a cheerleader for corporate medicine.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:21   #215
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They interviewed Jenny McCarthy's ped's doc and he said that he personally witnessed a child "turn autistic" within minutes after administering a vaccine. My question is this. How does this dildo still have a license to practice medicine?

The Lancet (The journal that first published the article linking vaccines to autism) freely admits that they were scammed and the research failed any attempts at peer review. So much so that a medical journal actually printed a retraction.

And what hidden agenda would the government have for putting undisclosed additives in a vaccine? The paranoia surrounding this stuff is almost comical. It would be funny if people were not gambling with the health of their kids and the surrounding populations due to some government bogeyman complex. For the love of all that is logical, this is the same government that can't manage to agree on any one single issue, yet they are crafty enough to taint the nations vaccine supply?
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:52   #216
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They interviewed Jenny McCarthy's ped's doc and he said that he personally witnessed a child "turn autistic" within minutes after administering a vaccine. My question is this. How does this dildo still have a license to practice medicine?

The Lancet (The journal that first published the article linking vaccines to autism) freely admits that they were scammed and the research failed any attempts at peer review. So much so that a medical journal actually printed a retraction.

And what hidden agenda would the government have for putting undisclosed additives in a vaccine? The paranoia surrounding this stuff is almost comical. It would be funny if people were not gambling with the health of their kids and the surrounding populations due to some government bogeyman complex. For the love of all that is logical, this is the same government that can't manage to agree on any one single issue, yet they are crafty enough to taint the nations vaccine supply?
.....vaccines aren't tainted, they are just unhealthy, and many, extraneous and unecessary. You really think Salk envisioned this madness? I don't.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:09   #217
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I am not so sure they are not necessary.

HPV: Cervical Cancer is bad mmm'kay.
Smallpox: Like bigpox, but worse.
Polio: No one wants to compete in the crutch olympics.
Varicella (chicken pox): Not a real high fatality rate for kids, but horrible for adults, or the recurrent shingles outbreaks as discussed earlier.
Hep A/B: Horrible diseases, usually bloodborne, but horrible none the less.
Rubella: Can be fatal to kids and carried by adults.
Pertussis: I have personally witnessed a kid lose an airway due to this disease in the ER I work in. Suffocation for children, I wouldn't vote for it. Again can be carried by adults who are not vaccinated.
Tetanus: Another bad one, lockjaw is the least of your worries.
Influenza: The common flu kills people, yes, it may be hard to believe but kids and older people will die from the flu every single season.
Any diseases that cause swelling of the upper airway, such as those covered in the MMR vaccine has the distinct possibility to kill a kid. Their airways are much smaller in relation to their bodies than those of an adult. Minor uncomfortable swelling for an adult might require heavy medication doses to reduce swelling, or in really extreme cases a surgical airway such a a trach. This is not theoretical. These infections happen, and they are starting to increase due to parents believing they are better educated than their physicians and opting not to vaccinate.

The awesome thing about these newer cases of preventable infections, is that those of a bacterial nature are now showing signs of antibiotic resistance. Much like how the once common STD's are now not responding to ABX therapy.

And in regards to the vaccines being tainted, that was in response to a poster a few pages back.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:21   #218
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The problem is that there is no "one vaccine shot" that covers everything. Many vaccines are a combination, such as MMR, and many are single vaccines. Or did you perhaps think that vaccines are cooked up in the doctor's office? The schedule is designed in such a way to ensure a proper immune response, and has been ascertained from probably decades of research. And it also clearly works, with an extremely low risk. It's cute that you think that you know better than the medical community, but by trying to flex your "knowledge" in front of your doc or nurse, all you are doing is making yourself look dumb. It's obviously appropriate for you to do what's best for your kids, but the problem lies in the fact that you are not doing what's best for your kids, rather you are doing what you think is best. That's a huge distinction, especially when you happen to be wrong. There is nothing wrong with following the advice of someone who actually knows something better than you do, and actually has a stake in your kids' well-being. It's interesting how people will come to this forum to ask advice on irrelevant things such as when to change the oil in your car, but at the same time will eschew the advice of a physician regarding the health of their loved ones, who spent the better part of a decade in medical school/residency, and is backed up by decades of peer-reviewed research. And they do it based on a 5 min google search article, written by some jackwagon without a medical or research degree, and backed up by no peer-reviewed sources. I read the natural news article someone linked to previously. It listed no sources, but would say "a study found this," "some scientists found this," or "a doctor said that." Clearly credible . This kind of stupidity is mind-boggling to say the least.
Its cute that that you did not read my post and replied any way I was asking about a shot containing a single vaccine vrs a mutiple vaccine shot .
I dont recall nor is it in my post anywhere that I think they make up the shots in the office.
Why do you say the doctors are vested in my kids. They are not, they are vested in thier wallets and the wallets of pharmaceutical companies(again not all but a percentage).
You may want to reread or read my post i never read the artical and dont care to.
Are you a doctor, is that why your offended?
Probably decades of research? Now thats a great fact to latch onto.
And name calling really? How sophmoric.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:26   #219
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He has a point though. A good percentage of the vaccines are made as multi strain shots due to it being more affordable. In addition you only pay for one office visit versus three. A doctor wouldn't do that if they were trying to leach every last cent from you.

It's cute how you think you have a handle on immunology.

Decades of research are more valid in my mind than the conspiracy theories of a parent who has an axe to grind with her local MD, but doesn't care to even devote the energy to read the article containing the information in question.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:29   #220
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You really haven't got the slightest flipping idea what you are talking about. You have formulated your own opinions based on nothing.
Did you miss the part about the flyer/phamplet concerning posssible death .
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:40   #221
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Find me one one commercial medication that does not have a death associated with it in clinical trials. Tylenol; Liver toxicity. Alleve: GI Bleeds. Multivitamins: Iron and vitamin A toxicity in large doses. All drugs carry that risk.

Part of interpreting the data is understanding how clinical trials are done. If Pfizer is testing a new drug to cure anal leakage, and a participant in a trial dies by committing suicide, even if it is in no way related to the drug, the death gets listed in the trial. Therefore the new miracle drug that stops anal leakage will have one death by suicide associated with it. That may make it the little pamphlet in the box with the drug.

The drug companies however do not take effort to explain this to the end consumer. But in the whole scheme of things drug companies have only been reaching out to the end user for the last 10 years or so.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:46   #222
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Did you miss the part about the flyer/phamplet concerning posssible death .

No offense, but you dont even remember what the shot was per your original post.

I'm a parent, and I've been to every one of my child's doctor visits. My wife and I also read each pamplet we receive before moving forward on a vaccine on the schedule. One of the reasons I do this is because while I worked in Medicaid and Medicare I helped draft several of those documents.

Good on you for being a concerned mother - there is nothing wrong with that. But you need to have a little bit of rational thought in with your worry.

Do you know how small the incidence of any drug reaction is? And of all those reactions, do you know how small the incidence of death is?

Or did you just skim the pamplet and see the word "death" and decide to post on a message board? You know, for that shot that you can't remember what it was for.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:52   #223
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He has a point though. A good percentage of the vaccines are made as multi strain shots due to it being more affordable. In addition you only pay for one office visit versus three. A doctor wouldn't do that if they were trying to leach every last cent from you.

It's cute how you think you have a handle on immunology.

Decades of research are more valid in my mind than the conspiracy theories of a parent who has an axe to grind with her local MD, but doesn't care to even devote the energy to read the article containing the information in question.
My first line in my original post is we vacinate our kidsI just try do it in a way that puts minimal toxins in them at a givin time reducing the chance for adverse reactions and increasing the chance for a proper response if there is an adverse reaction.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:55   #224
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Originally Posted by Hrsuhd View Post
My first line in my original post is we vacinate our kidsI just try do it in a way that puts minimal toxins in them at a givin time reducing the chance for adverse reactions and increasing the chance for a proper response if there is an adverse reaction.

I'm curious - what Toxins are you afraid of?

People use that term all the time. I'd love to know what toxins you think are being put into your vaccines, food, etc.

Please educate us.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:55   #225
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Originally Posted by Hrsuhd View Post
Its cute that that you did not read my post and replied any way I was asking about a shot containing a single vaccine vrs a mutiple vaccine shot .
I dont recall nor is it in my post anywhere that I think they make up the shots in the office.
Why do you say the doctors are vested in my kids. They are not, they are vested in thier wallets and the wallets of pharmaceutical companies(again not all but a percentage).
You may want to reread or read my post i never read the artical and dont care to.
Are you a doctor, is that why your offended?
Probably decades of research? Now thats a great fact to latch onto.
And name calling really? How sophmoric.
The more you try to defend your posts the more ignorant you look.
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