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Old 10-10-2012, 18:10   #121
Raleigh Glocker
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He seemed pretty matter of fact about the whole thing. I told him about the wear on the spring loaded bearing and how my G23 had almost none after 2k rounds. I also told him what the slow motion video showed.

He asked for my SN and said, "This is a pretty new gun, so we'll send you a return label." Pretty short conversation, really, once it was clear there was no way he would send me parts.
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Old 10-10-2012, 18:29   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
I called the factory too, my friend. There was no prepaid label for me! Hell, the service rep wouldn't even send me two lousy parts in order to attempt a simple extractor removal and repair on my own.
I think they have caller ID

OP, now you need to buy another G4 Glock, get the BTF problem, and tinker with it on your own
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Old 10-10-2012, 18:32   #123
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Good one!
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Old 10-10-2012, 18:49   #124
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Originally Posted by mike from philly View Post
The bounce explains the inconsistent ejection pattern since movement of the shooter differs between shots. Sometimes they are holding firm other times they are moving. Each of those movements affects when and where the case bounces.

I'd bet that if you put the pistol in a vice, it would eject perfectly because the pistol is static (that may GLOCK's method of testing by the way). Use the pistol in an dynamic way, and you'll end up with odd bounces.
Tried it. Used an indoor ranges vice, still ejected erratically and threw some literally at 6:00.
This was before I started to do a lot of testing when I first got the problem gun so we were all using the vice just messing around, my intent was not to test ejection, however, I still noticed the horrible ejection.
Mine seemed to be completely and utterly random.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:39   #125
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Yes, Glock's erratic extraction/ejection has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SHOOTER. It's strictly a mechanical problem that's intrinsic to recently manufactured Glock 9 millimeter and, sometimes, 40 caliber pistols.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:11   #126
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Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Yes, Glock's erratic extraction/ejection has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SHOOTER. It's strictly a mechanical problem that's intrinsic to recently manufactured Glock 9 millimeter and, sometimes, 40 caliber pistols.
exactly....and i can attest to the .40 caliber having BTF issues...
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:26   #127
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exactly....and i can attest to the .40 caliber having BTF issues...
Good!

Because, of late, all we've been hearing is that this problem is now a 9mm - only - issue.

(And, of course, as long as the same cheap crappy extractors continue to be used in both 9mm and 40 caliber Glocks, this mechanical anomaly is going to be shared-in-common by both.)

Last edited by Arc Angel; 10-11-2012 at 04:28..
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:33   #128
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Tried it. Used an indoor ranges vice, still ejected erratically and threw some literally at 6:00.
This was before I started to do a lot of testing when I first got the problem gun so we were all using the vice just messing around, my intent was not to test ejection, however, I still noticed the horrible ejection.
Mine seemed to be completely and utterly random.
This would've been valuable to have on video, for sure. Was it literally a shop vice? How did you clamp the pistol without inducing flex to the frame it wouldn't have when held with hands? Also, did you just reach around and pull the trigger with your finger?

I might try to recreate this test at some point.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:37   #129
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(And, of course, as long as the same cheap crappy extractors continue to be used in both 9mm and 40 caliber Glocks, this mechanical anomaly is going to be shared-in-common by both.)
Do you mean this literally, as in the exact same extractor is used for both the 9mm and the 40S&W Glocks, or do you mean that they are the same type of general design and manufacturing process?
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:56   #130
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Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker View Post
Do you mean this literally, as in the exact same extractor is used for both the 9mm and the 40S&W Glocks, or do you mean that they are the same type of general design and manufacturing process?
No, of course not!

(I've got an armorer's manual, too; and I'm fully aware that the part numbers are different. So is my best friend, the well-known local gunsmith, with whom I was just talking about this very subject. What is it? The current phase the moon is in; or what!)
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:10   #131
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No, of course not!

(I've got an armorer's manual, too; and I'm fully aware that the part numbers are different. So is my best friend, the well-known local gunsmith, with whom I was just talking about this very subject. What is it? The current phase the moon is in; or what!)
Relax. It was a serious question. I've read that some have changed out their 9mm extractors for 40S&W extractors and had success fixing their BTF. I was just wondering if Glock decided to do that wholesale for some reason and I didn't get the memo.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:13   #132
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You know what might be interesting to try? Putting a gen 3 slide on a gen 4 frame. I realize the end of the frame of a gen 4 is larger than a gen 3 to accept the larger gen 4 guide rod, but this would just be to see if the gen 4 frame has anything to do with the problem.

I'm pretty sure you can use the gen 3 spring and guide rod in a gen 4 with a gen 3 slide.

IF it can be done, and the erratic ejection went away, it would clearly show the gen 4 frame is not contributing to the problem. Then, once that's established, one could swap all the gen 3 slide parts to the gen 4 slide and see what happens.

Another thought would be put the gen 4 parts in the gen 3 slide and see if the BTF occurs.

Just trying to think of some ways to identify the problem.

BTW, I have two G17 gen 4s, one with 2,675 and the other with 2475 rounds through them and I think I've had one or two BTF and those may have been bounces off the shooting booth wall.

Last edited by Tangle; 10-11-2012 at 06:26..
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:12   #133
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Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker View Post
Relax. It was a serious question. I've read that some have changed out their 9mm extractors for 40S&W extractors and had success fixing their BTF. I was just wondering if Glock decided to do that wholesale for some reason and I didn't get the memo.
OK! I'm relaxed.

It's just that I'm presently being followed around the board by a real peckerwood who keeps on going out of his way in order to annoy me.

Which reminds me: I owe you an apology for your other thread that, 'Junior' shut down when he called me an, 'intellectual thief'. (Like I'm dumb enough to attempt something like that in front of the entire worldwide web. Imagine! What a testament to my outstanding Christian faith something like that would be!)

Your comment is correct. Some 9mm Glock owners have been able to overcome this problem by using less wobbly, tighter-clawed, 40 caliber extractors instead of the original loosely fitting, open-clawed, 9mm extractors their pistols initially came with.

I've already tried this; and while it worked marginally well, at the same time, too much of the expended 9mm brass was getting caught and held onto by the tighter 40 caliber claw.

Glock GmbH/Inc. is going to have to do one of two things in order to solve this problem: (1) Return to the precision-manufactured milled steel 9mm and 40 caliber extractors they used to use; or (2) get the mold dimensions of these new MIM extractors EXACTLY CORRECT (as they appear to have lucked out and accomplished with their new 45 ACP Glocks).

Of course, before any of this happens, the first thing Glock GmbH/Inc. is going to have to do is, ADMIT THEY HAVE A PROBLEM, AND AGREE TO SUPPLY THE PARTS NEEDED IN ORDER TO FIX THE MESS THEIR ILL-CONSIDERED COST CUTTING MEASURES HAVE CREATED INSIDE THEIR OWN MARKETPLACE.

Personally, I see no evidence of something like this happening anytime soon - Which is, 'Why' I think sending your troublesome pistol to Smyrna, right now, is a waste of time. But, I don't have a crystal ball; and, who knows, you just might luck out.

Last edited by Arc Angel; 10-11-2012 at 07:19..
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:23   #134
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The .40 extractor in a 9mm may just be a temporary fix. After 1000 - 2000 rounds have been fired, the problem may show up again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel
...I've already tried this; and while it worked marginally well, at the same time, too much of the expended 9mm brass was getting caught and held onto by the tighter 40 caliber claw.
That seems reasonable it was designed for the .40, not the 9mm.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but of the people having this problem, hasn't Glock fixed every one of them? Clearly, it took more than one try in some cases, but in the end, weren't all the problematic guns that were sent to Glock fixed?

That suggests that Glock does know how to fix the problem????

Last edited by Tangle; 10-11-2012 at 07:25..
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:48   #135
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Tangle, I've seen exactly the opposite result posted; but, yes, some people have had good luck after the factory installed one of the new Gen4 ejectors. Then again, others have posted that they haven't. From what I've seen and read, so far, none of this is consistent.

(Which, as far as I'm concerned, is typical of every Glock problem. One fellow posts that his Glock runs, 'like a Rolex'; and another guy replies that his Glock sucks. I've been reading contradictory comments like this on Glock Talk for years now.)

Last edited by Arc Angel; 10-11-2012 at 07:52..
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:46   #136
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...but, yes, some people have had good luck after the factory installed one of the new Gen4 ejectors. Then again, others have posted that they haven't.
This suggests that Glock simply cannot fix the problem - which I doubt. Had the problem gun been sent back to Glock again, it's likely Glock would have fixed the problem.

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...(Which, as far as I'm concerned, is typical of every Glock problem. One fellow posts that his Glock runs, 'like a Rolex'; and another guy replies that his Glock sucks. I've been reading contradictory comments like this on Glock Talk for years now.)
That's interesting. I'm not a Glock fanboy, but nonetheless am impressed with the performance of the gen 3 Glocks. Until the gen 4 problems, Glock has been generally considered one of the most durable and reliable handguns manufactured.

I wonder is some of the 'Glocks suck', which are likely very few by comparison, come from blaming the gun for a shooter problem. Or perhaps they prefer another brand and....

Last edited by Tangle; 10-11-2012 at 08:51..
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Old 10-11-2012, 14:45   #137
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Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker View Post
This would've been valuable to have on video, for sure. Was it literally a shop vice? How did you clamp the pistol without inducing flex to the frame it wouldn't have when held with hands? Also, did you just reach around and pull the trigger with your finger?

I might try to recreate this test at some point.
It wasn't a 'shop' vice, but it was an actual handgun vice. I can't remember the brand or name, but it was pretty nice. It was by no means scientific, but it worked good. The vice we used would only work for glocks, the way sandwiched the frame made so it was gun specific, we were told not to even try anything else. It had a lever on the back that actuated the trigger, so you didn't have to reach in the trigger guard to fire. The range I used it at doesn't allow phones on premises, and if you've seen my videos there all shot with a cell phone.(I never even recorded us shooting until I wanted to start watching ejection when I had the problem glock) I've been thinking about just getting one for myself, I've seen them pretty cheap, and one could probably be made fairly easily for cheap.
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Old 10-11-2012, 18:07   #138
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Originally Posted by di11igaf View Post
It wasn't a 'shop' vice, but it was an actual handgun vice. I can't remember the brand or name, but it was pretty nice. It was by no means scientific, but it worked good. The vice we used would only work for glocks, the way sandwiched the frame made so it was gun specific, we were told not to even try anything else. It had a lever on the back that actuated the trigger, so you didn't have to reach in the trigger guard to fire. The range I used it at doesn't allow phones on premises, and if you've seen my videos there all shot with a cell phone.(I never even recorded us shooting until I wanted to start watching ejection when I had the problem glock) I've been thinking about just getting one for myself, I've seen them pretty cheap, and one could probably be made fairly easily for cheap.
OK. That sounds like a Ransom Rest, and they are very expensive to get the kind with the pistol-specific inserts. It is the right tool for the job, though.
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Old 10-11-2012, 20:22   #139
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I wonder if these tooling machines for all these parts are finally worn to being out of spec, Gaston it might be time to bite the big bullet and spring financially and update all of your tooling machines.

Last edited by kat1950; 10-11-2012 at 20:24..
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:04   #140
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nice video. i am just glad that my g17 was test fired in 09'. i also have a fall 12' gen4 g23 with about 2k through it. the g23 ejects just fine. it is weird that you dont get a gradual change in ejection. fine through one mag, and crap in the next and on.

also, there is nothing wrong with wearing gloves. i wear my issued oakley fr's at the range all of the time. its comfortable for me, so i wear them. your form looks fine. youre not 'breaking' your wrist. it is simply a problem with the production of your g17. tiro is a tool, and its best to ignore him.
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