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Old 10-10-2012, 09:28   #21
mjkeat
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Who knows? I haven't had any optics fail yet...

Higher price doesn't necessarily mean higher quality, though I don't have a problem buying higher-dollar optics (mainly for Aimpoint's battery life).

I'd like to see actual stats rather than anecdotal evidence. We can all give examples of all types of optics failing or lasting based on our own experience or internet hearsay.
It most certainly does. There's a point of diminishing return but there is a night in day difference in say an H1/T1 and the Primary Arms micro or that backwards EoTech clone. Even Marshall from PA will admit this. I will say I run 2 PA Micros on lower use rifles and like them.

You'll never see "actual stats" because there is a stark difference in end user. You won't see an 11B topping off his M4 w/ a Benchmark RDS. There's a reason. Just like the people who say there isn't a difference will likely never pass the threashold that seperates good and bad.

That's why it's nice there are varying levels of quality. I really didn't want to spend $600 on a H1 for my .22 AR. The PA gets me close enough to not alter muscle memory.
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Old 10-10-2012, 15:48   #22
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that's a fair and honest assessment

I'm not in the military and neither am I in law enforcement.

The SBR gets shot maybe once a month.

I keep the batteries fresh, and I get my money's worth.
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Old 10-10-2012, 16:04   #23
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It most certainly does.
Really? Higher price = better regardless of materials used, workmanship?
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:39   #24
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Really? Higher price = better regardless of materials used, workmanship?
Give me examples and explain how. Since I'm an Aimpoint micro fan give me an example of a better micro at a less expensive price than the H1.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:54   #25
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I'm not in the military and neither am I in law enforcement.
Personally I like having optics/rifles as good or better than what military and LE use.

By once, cry once.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:57   #26
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Give me examples and explain how. Since I'm an Aimpoint micro fan give me an example of a better micro at a less expensive price than the H1.
Sure enough can't say it's "better", but the PA micro (when you can find one) runs about $80-$90, dramatically less then an H1.

What more could one want from a sight that's accurate, dependable, rugged, and does exactly what is was designed to do and keeps doing it for years?

And does it for about 1/5th the cost?

Look, if I was in combat or a LEO, I'd be paying five to ten times more than what I'm paying now for an civilian, occasional-use optic.

Apples and oranges

Good sight, decent price, performs well - I'm good with that.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:59   #27
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Personally I like having optics/rifles as good or better than what military and LE use.

By once, cry once.
I'll keep repeating it, but I doubt it matters:

I've owned multiple PA optics and used them for multiple years.

Never cried once - never had a problem with their products.
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Last edited by doc540; 10-10-2012 at 20:22..
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:11   #28
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Personally I like having optics/rifles as good or better than what military and LE use.

By once, cry once.

I get issued an ACOG on my A4 rifle. I work on aircraft. That sight will never see more than dust and neglect. My rifle would probably be 100 percent fine with a lower cost optic or no optic at all.
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:13   #29
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I get issued an ACOG on my A4 rifle. I work on aircraft. That sight will never see more than dust and neglect. My rifle would probably be 100 percent fine with a lower cost optic or no optic at all.
I'll trade ya a PA optic of your choice straight up for that ACOG, and pay shipping both ways


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Old 10-11-2012, 08:07   #30
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Sure enough can't say it's "better", but the PA micro (when you can find one) runs about $80-$90, dramatically less then an H1.

What more could one want from a sight that's accurate, dependable, rugged, and does exactly what is was designed to do and keeps doing it for years?

And does it for about 1/5th the cost?

Look, if I was in combat or a LEO, I'd be paying five to ten times more than what I'm paying now for an civilian, occasional-use optic.

Apples and oranges

Good sight, decent price, performs well - I'm good with that.
Have you ran an Aimpoint such as the H1/T1 for any length of time? There's no comparison.

Last edited by mjkeat; 10-11-2012 at 08:09..
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:14   #31
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Have you ran an Aimpoint such as the H1/T1 for any length of time? There's no comparison.
I have not.

But, I'm interested to learn what an extra $400-$500 gets me for civilian/hobbyist use.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:24   #32
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I have not.

But, I'm interested to learn what an extra $400-$500 gets me for civilian/hobbyist use.
This is the problem. We probably shouldn't make judgment in cases like this if we have nothing to go off of.

The difference, as I stated before, is obvious at a glance. Once in hand the differences grow. Once on a rifle it's night and day. I like the PA Micro. I think it's the best of the inexpensive optics. I own 2. It is not, as other cheap optics, a replacement, just as good as, or equal to what it is mimicking.

In the world of optics, RDS more specifically you get what you pay for. I've tried them all looking for the cheap way out.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:03   #33
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I'll trade ya a PA optic of your choice straight up for that ACOG, and pay shipping both ways


My Uncle Sam usually doesn't take well to people stealing his ****. The last guy I know that did it (A Gunny in the S-4 shop) got hauled off by NCIS and last I heard is spending a few years in Kansas. Guess he used to run the Armory at his last command and was squirreling away every part he could short of the lower receivers and selling them
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:44   #34
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This is the problem. We probably shouldn't make judgment in cases like this if we have nothing to go off of.

The difference, as I stated before, is obvious at a glance. Once in hand the differences grow. Once on a rifle it's night and day. I like the PA Micro. I think it's the best of the inexpensive optics. I own 2. It is not, as other cheap optics, a replacement, just as good as, or equal to what it is mimicking.

In the world of optics, RDS more specifically you get what you pay for. I've tried them all looking for the cheap way out.
Seriously, I'm not doubting you. I'd like to know the specifics of what's obvious at a glance and like night and day between them.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:19   #35
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Construction, materials, craftsmanship, workmanship, solid. Like slamming the door on a Yugo then a BMW, you know which is quality. There's also a psychological difference when you know your gear can out hustle you
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:44   #36
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Nice rifle. the optic looks like it's mounted backwards though.
really does look like a backward eothinggy.

Good to see though, I'm looking for some cheaper sights for a couple low priced builds I've stuck together from parts. I normally stick with primary arms but I'll look into this one.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:01   #37
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Construction, materials, craftsmanship, workmanship, solid. Like slamming the door on a Yugo then a BMW, you know which is quality. There's also a psychological difference when you know your gear can out hustle you
Can you describe how the actual optical parts differ? Is the glass and reticle/dot on the PA as crisp and clear as on the Aimpoint? Do they both have the same adjustments?
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:02   #38
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Can you describe how the actual optical parts differ? Is the glass and reticle/dot on the PA as crisp and clear as on the Aimpoint? Do they both have the same adjustments?
See below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
Construction, materials, craftsmanship, workmanship, solid. Like slamming the door on a Yugo then a BMW, you know which is quality. There's also a psychological difference when you know your gear can out hustle you
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:39   #39
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See below.
Can you please answer my specific questions?

Is the glass as clear and bright? Is the dot as crisp and clear? Are the optic adjustments similar?

I'm not asking about build quality, I want to know how it actually works for a human being with eyes.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:47   #40
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You won't see an 11B topping off his M4 w/ a Benchmark RDS. There's a reason. .
Yeah, it's called GI - General Issued. You get what you're issued.
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