.45 ACP Small Primer v Large Primer loads - Page 2

F106 Fan · 10-09-2012, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckeye Glocks

I did not realize the depth of loathing for the SP .45! I guess I am not picky. So, any of you that want to get rid of your SP .45 brass - send me a PM and we can make arrangements to alleviate you of that scourge. Who knows maybe a few LP .45 will sneak into the mix.

The loathing is caused by real problems for reloaders! These cases are dangerous!

On a 550, if a SP case sneaks in, it is possible to almost seat a large primer. It will dangle out of the case and jam up the shell plate. The only way to remove it is to decap the case again. And this extra decapping double charges the case at station two! This is a serious issue for the unwarry. Yes, I know, just remove the charged case before the second decapping and replace it after priming another case and before rotating the shell plate.

On a 650, the dangling primer won't jam up the shell plate and the case can be easily removed. The only potential problem is being overexuberant in seating the primer and detonating, not only the primer under the case, but the entire chain of primers back up through the tube. I am not saying that I have ever even heard of this event occuring in just this way but there is a video of the results of at least one chain fire on a 650:

Dillon Primer Detonation - YouTube

At least on the 550, only one primer will detonate.

On the 1050, the SP case jams up the machine at the primer swaging station. The ratchet mechanism won't allow the operator to back out and some intervention is required. There is also a possibility that the press didn't completely stroke the powder measure depending on how the operator intervenes.

On the RCBS Green Machine, the primer station is directly under the powder measure. An exploding primer will probably not cause a huge issue but the BATF was concerned enough to write me a threatening letter about their interest in future events. After I blew up a primer on this press, I immediately ordered a 1050.

It's easy enough to sit back an giggle about the debate over SP vs LP but the SP brass poses a significant hazard. Sure, you can try to separate your brass. Yes, you can try to pick up only YOUR brass. But, in the end, you will inevitably pick up some SP cases and you WILL miss them when you sort. If you sort... I don't sort my cases; I don't even look at them.

At the moment, I have about 5000 empty .45 cases. How many do you suppose are SP? How many passes will it take to catch them all?

Richard

Buckeye Glocks · 10-09-2012, 10:15

I use a single stage press. I usually do small runs when I load. I have the time to check all my cases.
You did an excellent job of explaining the problems they pose when running a progressive press. If I ran a progressive I would probably hold them in the same contempt as you and others have explained.

Colorado4Wheel · 10-09-2012, 10:40

Oh the Horrors!!!!!!!

SARDG · 10-09-2012, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan

...there is a video of the results of at least one chain fire on a 650:

Richard

It's obvious he had 'issues' - but I cannot see how leaving off the ejector wire can cause that. His explanation doesn't seem plausible.

F106 Fan · 10-09-2012, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARDG

It's obvious he had 'issues' - but I cannot see how leaving off the ejector wire can cause that. His explanation doesn't seem plausible.

He talks about the case feeder mechanism jamming an empty case up against a loaded case that shouldn't be there. He suggests that this pushed the shell plate out of alignment enough to detonate a primer.

Beats me! I don't know if this is possible or not. But there is no question about the chain fire. It's pretty impressive!

I have popped a couple of LP primers trying to seat them in a SP case and I can't say it won't happen again. The only saving grace is that I do my .45 loading on a 1050 so the press jams up when the case hits the swaging station.

The only opportunities for a primer incident with the 650, as I run it, comes from .223 and 9mm crimped cases. Those have nothing to do with LP vs SP.

I may just buy a caliber conversion for the 1050. That would solve the .223 problem forever. We aren't shooting the 9mm very much so it just isn't a problem.

Richard

fredj338 · 10-09-2012, 12:14

I'm not buying the safety issue at all, unless you are just a handle puller. I load a ton of 45acp. It's not possible to even come close to seating a LP in a SP case, it just won't fit. I get the occasional one in the 650, it just prevents me from seating the primer, nothing else. So all you need to do is remove the offending case & proceed. Since the priming on a 550 or 650 is not on the down stroke, nothing advances. So it's more an annoyance than anything else. If you are pulling the handle that fast, with that much force, you have other issues reloading. I have NEVER detonated a primer in my press, every, not in more than 250K rds on my 550 & 650.

F106 Fan · 10-09-2012, 12:28

There are some cases, like S&B, where the primer pocket is very tight. The difference in force between seating a primer in a tight pocket and popping one against a SP case is not all that much.

For me, it has happened twice. It's pretty certain that it will happen for others.

I wonder if the fact that I use Federal primers has anything to do with it. They are reputed to be more sensitive than other brands such as CCI.

Richard

Hoser · 10-09-2012, 12:48

The last batch of 45 ACP that I loaded was with range brass. There was some SP brass mixed in. Out of 2,000 pcs I pulled out about 40-45 pcs.

Crazy I know, but I went through and culled out all the SP brass ahead of time.

Zombie Steve · 10-09-2012, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

Oh the Horrors!!!!!!!

Leave the threads about big-boy cartridges to the big boys, Heather.

F106 Fan · 10-09-2012, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoser

The last batch of 45 ACP that I loaded was with range brass. There was some SP brass mixed in. Out of 2,000 pcs I pulled out about 40-45 pcs.

Crazy I know, but I went through and culled out all the SP brass ahead of time.

I have tried the same thing. The problem is, I can't achieve perfection. In spite of my best efforts, I still get 1 or 2 per thousand into the hopper.

Richard

Colorado4Wheel · 10-09-2012, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie Steve

Leave the threads about big-boy cartridges to the big boys, Heather.

When they start making 10mm with SP primers I am going to throw a Big Boy hisse fit. Just to fit in.

unclebob · 10-09-2012, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARDG

It's obvious he had 'issues' - but I cannot see how leaving off the ejector wire can cause that. His explanation doesn't seem plausible.

I have popped 3 primers. A friend of mine that I know has set off the whole tube at least 3 times that I know of. I was there when he set off the first one. Other than destroying some parts and putting a hole in the ceiling. It really is not that big a deal that everyone tries to make it out to be. The 650 press does its job.

Zombie Steve · 10-09-2012, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

When they start making 10mm with SP primers I am going to throw a Big Boy hisse fit. Just to fit in.

shotgunred · 10-09-2012, 17:57

You guys should all just send me the small pistol primer brass.

njl · 10-09-2012, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan

The loathing is caused by real problems for reloaders! These cases are dangerous!

On a 550, if a SP case sneaks in, it is possible to almost seat a large primer. It will dangle out of the case and jam up the shell plate. The only way to remove it is to decap the case again. And this extra decapping double charges the case at station two! This is a serious issue for the unwarry. Yes, I know, just remove the charged case before the second decapping and replace it after priming another case and before rotating the shell plate.

Actually, if you pull the handle just a little (raise the shell plate just a little) so that the shell plate is above the primer slide cup, there's a channel in the shell plate which I assume is there so that you can remove a partially primed (or a decapped case which has partially reseated the primer which had stuck to the decapping pin). I've had to do the latter numerous times. I suspect, if you managed to partially insert a LP into a SP pocket, you could remove such a piece of brass this way. I'm not volunteering to try it.

fredj338 · 10-09-2012, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by njl

I suspect, if you managed to partially insert a LP into a SP pocket, you could remove such a piece of brass this way. I'm not volunteering to try it.

It's just not possible, they don't fit. Push on the handle, feel resistance, stop & find out why, simple. It doesn't take much force to seat a primer.

judgecrater · 10-10-2012, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredj338

It's just not possible, they don't fit. Push on the handle, feel resistance, stop & find out why, simple. It doesn't take much force to seat a primer.

Exactly! When I feel the extra resistance jamming the press (Dillon) I stop pushing! Remove the sp brass and continue. It happens and I move on. I don't see a problem.
You can "Hope for Change" but the manufacture of sp 45ACP is not going away.

Zombie Steve · 10-10-2012, 10:09

Zombie Steve · 10-10-2012, 10:13

Couple things from another thread on this subject that just deserve to be quoted here:

Quote:

Disgusting God hating freaks... Pretty soon, they'll be clamorin' to be able to get married to each other.

-El_Ron1

Colorado4Wheel · 10-10-2012, 10:32

That is funny.

fredj338 · 10-10-2012, 13:19

Well, the guys that like small primers probably like girls w/ small hands for the same reason?????

DoctaGlockta · 10-10-2012, 13:50

SP 45acp just seems so unAmerican to me.

Zombie Steve · 10-10-2012, 15:13

Not to late for write-ins, guys. This will be the leading part of my plan to rebuild America.

ZS 2012!

dkf · 10-10-2012, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredj338

Well, the guys that like small primers probably like girls w/ small hands for the same reason?????

Girls with small hands usually do not have adams apples.

Don't worry I won't judge you for liking the large handed "girls" Fred.

tkglazie · 10-10-2012, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan

There are some cases, like S&B, where the primer pocket is very tight. The difference in force between seating a primer in a tight pocket and popping one against a SP case is not all that much.

For me, it has happened twice. It's pretty certain that it will happen for others.

I wonder if the fact that I use Federal primers has anything to do with it. They are reputed to be more sensitive than other brands such as CCI.

Richard

I also have some issues with S&B cases (although only their 9mm cases) and I am a federal primer man. I am willing to put up with the inconvenience for the sake of using the most reliable primer on the market