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Old 10-09-2012, 16:23   #76
Kingarthurhk
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Again, you dont know as much as you claim. Of course Jews believe in reincarnation. It is a basic tenet of traditional Judaism.

This is Aish. One of the more authoratative. mainstream traditional Jewish sites. Google will bring up plenty of others.

http://www.aish.com/jl/l/a/48943926.html
It is interesting. I have read the Torah, and have never seen anything regarding reincarnation.
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Old 10-09-2012, 16:24   #77
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I know this theme becomes popular this time of year. But, there are no such things as ghosts. There are fallen angels that impersonate ghosts. I have had my fair share of encounters with them. But, they flee in the name of Jesus every time.

If you are interested in a brief study on the state of the dead, I recommend this link:

http://www.amazingfacts.org/free-stu...ad-really-dead?
For a contrasting point of view read:

Seven kinds of Ghosts

http://saint-mike.org/warfare/library/wp-content/docs/7ghosts.asp


http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=14715
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Old 10-09-2012, 16:26   #78
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Several years ago, we went to the USS Lexington with his Cub Scout Pack. We toured the ship and stayed on board overnight, heard all the ghost stories, etc. Well, the next morning, after we had taken all of our stuff up to the hangar deck from the berthing area, my son wanted to go walk around the ship and take pictures, since there were not any people except our Cub Scout group left. So, we put fresh batteries in his digital camera and headed down into the engine compartment, where "Charlie" supposedly roams.

When we made it down to the engine compartment, the power went out on the ship. The emergency lights came on, so it wasn't pitch black, but it was kinda dark. After a few minutes, one of the tour folks came and yelled down the hatch and asked if anyone was down in the engine compartment. We said we were, and were alone, so he decided to bring the two other people down and show them the engine room too, before guiding us back up to the hangar deck.

Well, as the guide told the story about Charlie and pointed out where he died, my son went to take a picture of the spot....as soon as he turned on the camera and focused on that place on the ship, the batteries lost all power. These were fresh batteries, that we had just put in the camera minutes before. We showed the guide that the camera went dead and he immediately took all of us back up to the hangar deck.
I had a similar experience at Muriel's restaurant in New Orleans. Muriel's is very famously haunted and there are many tales of mysterious voices in their Seance Room upstairs (yes, that's right, the restaurant has a seance room!), and one ghost in particular, that of Pierre Jourdan, was so active at one point that the staff now leaves a plate of bread and some wine out for him continuously to keep him calmed down (I'm not making this up, and they've been doing it since long before having ghosts in your restaurant was considered "cool").

Anyhow, I eat there a good bit when in New Orleans and know some of the staff pretty well. Last year when I was in town with my wife I took her by there for the Sunday Brunch and although the upstairs was closed at the time, the staff told me I could take her upstairs to see the Seance Room since she had never been before. They did warn us, however, that Pierre had been active recently in the form of a partial manifestation that one of the cleaning crew had seen up there a week earlier while cleaning the Seance Room after hours.

My wife brought her camera, which had fresh batteries, and we went upstairs to poke around on our own for a bit. She was nervous and just wanted to snap some pics of the outlandish decor in the Seance Room and then LEAVE, but as soon as she started focussing her camera, the battery went absolutely flat.

She looked at the camera, looked at me, said "F--- This!" and went back downstairs.
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Old 10-09-2012, 16:39   #79
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at 1 point "scientists" jumped up and down swearing that the earth was flat.
No, not really. "Scientists" in the sense that we now use the term only date back to th time of the ancient Greeks, and by that time scientists (and sailors) knew th world was not flat. Aristotle famously said the world was found, but no one lived on the bottom half because they would fall off (no one had thought of gravity yet).

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i loathe scientific zealots just as much as i hate religious zealots.
But you see, here's the thing: there is no such thing as a scientific zealot. The very term is a contradiction.

Anyone who truly understands science is willing to cast aside their beliefs in the face of new evidence. Every physicist in the world believes that the speed of light is the fastest any particle can travel; Einstein's general relativity equations elegantly state it to be so.

But if tomorrow someone else came along and found an error or loophole in the equations, every scientist on the planet throw away the old belief. That is in direct contradiction to the idea of zealots who cling to beliefs in the face of evidence to the contrary.

Some things just are what they are. They don't care about your opinion. Sometimes it really is correct to say "that's just the way it is."
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:08   #80
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In theory every scientist who formulates a theory should be grateful to those who study, question and challenge it. However, being human many aren't. Think Edison and Tesla.

If I could see convincing evidence of paranormal activity, especially something that could be seen again and again I would find it interesting. My one brush with it was brief and startling but inconclusive.
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:11   #81
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EVP nightmare

My family and I experienced a rather terrifying Paranormal EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomenon) set of events that started several years ago. It began several years ago, and continues to afflict us to this day. I never believed in EVP before this happened, and I haven't posted this story anywhere but here. It actually bothers me to discuss it here, but I will try.

I don't claim to fully understand EVP. I've never experienced it anywhere before this one case.

This particular EVP creature seems to be malevolent, so I assume this particular case is sinister or "evil" in nature. Thus, I will claim that an "evil" EVP presence has invaded our lives repeatedly over the last several years, and continues to harass us, and interrupts our days and nights to this day. I still remember the first time as if it were last night...

Let me be clear here, though. This EVP creature hasn't yet appeared before me in person. It appears to me via our radios or audible devices, and sometimes appears as one of several of its forms as a video image. This creature never has appeared to us in person, but constantly invades us through EVP. It is truly depressing.

I wouldn't say this evil presence takes the form of a man, yet it clearly isn't a woman either. The best word I can use to describe it is "creature". I have seen it. My family has seen it. Even our neighbors have seen it, at times when they have been with us. We have also all heard it.

Please allow me to describe the creature and what it does. If your children are reading this, please avert their attention, or move along to the next post. This is a serious issue.

As best I can say, this "creature" is a rather tall, slender, serpentine figure with large, ominous teeth, and an eery smile. Its coloring is inexplicable, often seemingly to be both half-black, yet half-white as well. It often shifts color to blend in more closely to its surroundings, like a humanoid chameleon. Sometimes, it appears to be more white, other times to be more black. Sometimes it inexplicably shifts to brown, or some other color.

Its voice is solemn, slow, often methodical, and usually eery. It has a condescending tone. It tries to form English words into strings of logic, but usually cannot construct logical thoughts... they are usually just strings of ominous and confusing or conflicting phrases. It is very strange, indeed.

Against our will, and unwelcome to us, this "creature" generates sounds that resemble English language. We hear its voice, and its attempts at logic, but it usually makes no sense.

Though we have done it no wrong, and really don't know what it is... it often appears to be hateful or spiteful towards us, for no apparent reason. More frighteningly, it often appears to be attempting to deceive us, or harm us, or persuading us to do things against our will!

The resonance of this eery voice keeps inexplicably ranting to us through our televisions, radios, car stereos, and even sometimes computers.

Whenever I see it appear now, I simply turn off the device ASAP!





Oh wait, this started in 2008. I'm just realized I'm probably talking about what everyone calls Obama.

Last edited by Landmonster; 10-09-2012 at 17:26..
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:13   #82
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We'll ALL find the truth at the end.

In the mean time, educate yourself and live a good life.
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:17   #83
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
It is interesting. I have read the Torah, and have never seen anything regarding reincarnation.
Judaism doesnt concern itself with what you think Judaism is. You cant even begin to fathom what you DONT know about it, in spite of what you think you know. Judaism has no mission to spread itself or even the truth about what it is.

For a simple example, you have never read the Torah. You have read a translation of one part of the Jewish works known as the Torah and viewed it through a Christian lense.

This isnt about who is right or wrong, because I am not interested in that debate. That is a religious debate and those are pretty useless. This is about puting data points on the table.
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I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:18   #84
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Do you believe in the supernatural?
Yes I do.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:18   #85
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We'll ALL find the truth at the end.

In the mean time, educate yourself and live a good life.


Basically what it boils down to
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:20   #86
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We'll ALL find the truth at the end.

In the mean time, educate yourself and live a good life.
How do you know?

If there is nothing, then we will find nothing, we will know nothing, there will be nothing. That is what oblivion is.

The other side of that is, how do you know we (any given person) will not find out A truth instead of some kind of The truth?
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:21   #87
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Me and the wife walk the local cemetery every night for about an hour. Haven't seen anything yet. I don't think I've ever seen a ghost. I have however had weird experiences from too much caffeine causing an overactive brain at night.

For those that live in "haunted" areas and claim to see stuff... why do you live there? Isn't it a bit discomforting living with a supernatural being that cannot be explained nor that you know the capabilities of?
Some folks "shine".......some folks don't.
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:26   #88
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Well, being more specific and elaborating more might be helpful. To be frank, you are being a bit inscrutible, so it is hard to get a grasp on the point you are trying to make. I am not being purposefully obtuse or trying to be disrespectful.
There are lots of examples. In Navajo way we literally call it ghost sickness and certain medicine men can exorcise it.
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:29   #89
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I love this thread!!!


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
So do I! Pass some of that popcorn here!


If only people would knock off the b****ing, it would be better. Hopefully Mrs. VR will delete the argument comments and leave the stories.
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:31   #90
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"Superstition is the religion of the feeble minded" - Edmund Burke
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:38   #91
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Noone was moved by my EVP story?
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:38   #92
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How do you know?

If there is nothing, then we will find nothing, we will know nothing, there will be nothing. That is what oblivion is.

The other side of that is, how do you know we (any given person) will not find out A truth instead of some kind of The truth?
Oblivion is something. Often the answer to what people look for is not at any polar opposites. But rather in the center. Contradiction is where balance lays, often appearing as nonsense to the absolutist mind.

How do I know? Just a hunch.
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:42   #93
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Oblivion is something. Often the answer to what people look for is not at any polar opposites. But rather in the center. Contradiction is where balance lays, often appearing as nonsense to the absolutist mind.

How do I know? Just a hunch.
Nothing is nothing. If it is "BAM" lights out forever. There never was and never will be.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-09-2012, 18:16   #94
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Nothing is nothing. If it is "BAM" lights out forever. There never was and never will be.
Perhaps. Either way, you'll experience the answer on your way to something or nothingness.
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Old 10-09-2012, 18:17   #95
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Nothing is nothing. If it is "BAM" lights out forever. There never was and never will be.
Also....How do you know?
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Old 10-09-2012, 18:21   #96
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Also....How do you know?
I dont know if that is what happens but if it is, nothing is nothing. How else would we define the absense of all things? Again, if it is lights out, forever, in a flash....there is no truth to be learned. There is nothing. Simply nothing. Oblivion.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-09-2012, 18:28   #97
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Alright, I'll do mine.

I was 17 y/o or so and sitting in my (mom and dad's) living room at just after 2:00 a.m. reading a book. Just over the top of the book I see a poorly defined figure walk out of the family room (from direction of parents' bedroom), into the kitchen and into the utility room where it disappeared. I could make out almost no detail other than a greyish color and a basically human shape. It being late, I was tired and my eyes had been reading for hours I was able to eventually calm and convince myself that it was my imagination....either way I went to bed somewhat shaken. So, no big deal....

I wake the next morning to find my mother and father on the couch with my mom visibly shaken and upset. She recounted that a little after 2:00 a.m. she awoke to find her (deceased) mother (my grandmother) in her room. She watched her mother stand there for a moment, and then pass out of the bedroom and continue on the same course that I saw my figure travel.

Other family members have also reported sightings of her in their own homes; usually in close time proximity. Of all the dead in my large family, she is the only one who was ever "seen" by anyone.
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Old 10-09-2012, 18:32   #98
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We had a golden retriever named Amber.

She got bone cancer 2 years ago - very aggressive type - we had no choice - no way it could be treated.

I work from home and spend a lot of time at the computer - Amber would always be close by - she was like a shadow -

When she wanted something she would come up behind me while I worked and poke the back of my arm with her cold nose.

She did the same thing to my wife --

A few months after she died - I had the distinct feeling she poked my arm with her cold nose - happened a few times - I figured it was my imagination. I never said anything to my wife.

One day my wife told me - she had Amber poke her arm while she was at her computer.

It has happened many times over the last couple years.

Don't know if it is really her - or just an over active imagination

But I hope it is her - she was such a loving dog - and deserved a longer life.
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Old 10-09-2012, 18:33   #99
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I posted this thread because I've had experiences, and know lots of creditable people who have had them as well. Then I know lots of people who haven't. Like, my girl has never experienced anything, but she is terrified of the thought. I have, yet it doesn't scare me. I'm not sure what they are. Are they just emotions trapped in an area, are they demons, angles, or spirits? I have no clue.

Oh, one thing. When I was about 13, some friends and I messed with witchcraft. Don't ever do that. Believe in spirits or not, you don't want to open doors and invite potentially evil things. I've known of a few people who have made deals with the devil or even offered to sell thier souls. What's funny is they all claim that it worked, they got what they wanted, but what followed made them regret it. If there is a heaven, it would really suck if you got to the gate just to find out there is a lien on your title!

About the "Science" arguement, there are things we don't understand and there are things maybe we can never comprehend. Science can't explain everythign and if it can, then what is the point of continuing to study it? It is very arrogant to believe that we know everything because anyone who knows anything about science knows we discover new things all the time and it's always changing. Scientist like to say that when (stupid) people don't understand something, they use religion to understand it. However, often when scientist don't understand something, they use science to understand that.


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Noone was moved by my EVP story?
Yes, you had me going there and we are holding an extrocisim on Nov 6th.
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Old 10-09-2012, 18:42   #100
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I'm a scientist. Sorry, there is no such thing as ghosts. My 4 year old believes in them, but my 9 year old has figured out that it is make-believe.

Likewise, no such thing as angels, faeries (like the tooth fairy), santa claus, the easter bunny, the devil, etc.

All that stuff is cool, and some great story telling was involved, but really folks, it isn't true!!!
I wear Nike shoes. You're wrong.

This is the whole thing in a nutshell. There is something that exists that we have termed "ghost". What it actually is or why it exists is moot. All arguments against their existence are based in ignorance to me. If you have experienced the explainable, it may remain that.. explainable. But you are very aware of ignorance no matter what the base of the ignorant argument, be it science or religion.
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