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Old 10-08-2012, 11:39   #101
Ohio Copper
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Originally Posted by Little Joe View Post
No harm, no foul. Why ruin a guys life for misunderstanding. Clean record and all...
Is it a misunderstanding or a blatant disregard?

It's not difficult to carry legally in Ohio, plenty of people do it every single day.


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Old 10-08-2012, 11:41   #102
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Originally Posted by nikerret View Post
You are blissfully ignorant of many things.

First off, your scouting means nothing with the newer meth cooking techniques. Around here, they often drop off the stuff in the evening and pick it up in the morning. It doesn't take days of sitting, anymore. I prefer to hunt deer when they are moving the most, in the morning and in the evening. In til dark, out after dark. That's when they're moving this stuff.

Add on top of that, poachers and trespassers are rampant and armed.

I recommend you carry a defensive weapon ALL THE TIME.
I get the feeling Jonesee is a "fudd", as they say. He only carries a handgun in his car unloaded and secured? really? What's the point of even owning one if he doesn't use it for self defense or hunting? What would be the point of subscribing to a handgun forum?

Honestly, Fudd is giving him the benefit of the doubt, that he isn't some anti-gunner from DU, playing his "gun owner" character.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:44   #103
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
The victim is the state of Ohio.

It's not a paperwork mixup, he failed to follow the laws as written by the state of Ohio.
I understand the cop having to make the arrest. And I understand that the anti-gun people have out voted the pro-gun people to allow these types of unconstitutional laws to exist.

But what I would hope is that every member of GT would nullify such anti-gun prosecutions if ever picked to be on the jury.

We need much more unity. We need to be more accepting of different ideas of hunting, and of carrying guns, and of the types of guns one might choose to transport or carry.

As long as a gun owner is not pointing his/her gun at someone nor being wreckless in their shooting habits, we should not favor crimal treatment of gun ownership.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:51   #104
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Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
I understand the cop having to make the arrest. And I understand that the anti-gun people have out voted the pro-gun people to allow these types of unconstitutional laws to exist.

But what I would hope is that every member of GT would nullify such anti-gun prosecutions if ever picked to be on the jury.

We need much more unity. We need to be more accepting of different ideas of hunting, and of carrying guns, and of the types of guns one might choose to transport or carry.

As long as a gun owner is not pointing his/her gun at someone nor being wreckless in their shooting habits, we should not favor crimal treatment of gun ownership.
We should however allow criminal treatment of those who fail to follow the laws that EVERYBODY else needs to follow, with no issues.

My area is very speedy in there issuing of CCW permits. No reason otherwise.


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Old 10-08-2012, 12:07   #105
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
We should however allow criminal treatment of those who fail to follow the laws that EVERYBODY else needs to follow, with no issues.

My area is very speedy in there issuing of CCW permits. No reason otherwise.
.
Not me, I'm not voting to convict anyone just because they don't have a permit. The only permit they need is the US Constitution. Anything else is an unnecessary anti-gun and economic burden placed on otherwise law abiding people.

We have to follow the anti-gun laws, but we can still legally challenge them at every opportunity. Juror nullification is one such opportunity.

Last edited by ithaca_deerslayer; 10-08-2012 at 12:08..
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:16   #106
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Is it a misunderstanding or a blatant disregard?

It's not difficult to carry legally in Ohio, plenty of people do it every single day.


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No question the police officer really had his hands tied. My problem is with the law in Ohio.

It isn't straightforward. I can:

Disassemble my pistol completely, leave the firing pin at home, lock the loaded magazine in a safe to which I don't have they key. Get pulled over and STILL be charged with a felony.

Something is seriously wrong with that. I understand your desire to defend the need to enforce the law as written. I have no problem with that per se. However, the laws in Ohio pertaining to transporting weapons in vehicles is indefensible.

Last edited by hamster; 10-08-2012 at 12:18..
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:20   #107
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Originally Posted by uptomyneck View Post
The Statist Apologist Doctrine montra here is older than "I bet I know where you got 'dem shoes."

That SOB that did the arresting violated the God given right that was promised to us in the 2nd. You're all in favor of stedfastly enforcing corrupt laws made by corrupt politicians. You Neocons are worse than the Communists. Wake the FU!
^Crazy and not helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
I understand the cop having to make the arrest. And I understand that the anti-gun people have out voted the pro-gun people to allow these types of unconstitutional laws to exist.

But what I would hope is that every member of GT would nullify such anti-gun prosecutions if ever picked to be on the jury.

We need much more unity. We need to be more accepting of different ideas of hunting, and of carrying guns, and of the types of guns one might choose to transport or carry.

As long as a gun owner is not pointing his/her gun at someone nor being wreckless in their shooting habits, we should not favor crimal treatment of gun ownership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamster View Post
No question the police officer really had his hands tied. My problem is with the law in Ohio.

It isn't straightforward. I can:

Disassemble my pistol completely, leave the firing pin at home, lock the loaded magazine in a safe to which I don't have they key. Get pulled over and STILL be charged with a felony.

Something is seriously wrong with that. I understand your desire to defend the need to enforce the law as written. I have no problem with that per se. However, the laws in Ohio pertaining to transporting weapons in vehicles is indefensible.
^^Sane, well thought out, and effectively expressed.
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Last edited by nikerret; 10-08-2012 at 12:20..
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:25   #108
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I love the fact the the OP has never returned, answered any questions, or given any other information.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:31   #109
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
I love the fact the the OP has never returned, answered any questions, or given any other information.
You missed it one page back amongst the other replies.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...9&postcount=93

Quote:
I have read the responses, and I agree that ignorance of the Ohio law is no excuse. From what I understand, he had just stopped for gas, and gone into the station for some eats. The pistol, which he had on the seat beside him while traveling, was placed under his seat so as not to make his truck the target of a smash and grab. He apparantly failed to remove the pistol from under the seat (which would'nt have helped him under Ohio's law, but would have made carrying the non-concealed handgun legal under his home state's laws).

Anyway, he has been referrred to a local attorney, and hopefully will get the sympathy of the local District Attorney and be able to negotiate a misdemeanor plea with fine. My point was simply that you do have to be familiar with the gun laws (all laws for that matter) when you are traveling to or through other states.

I won't get into the debate about whether you should carry a handgun while hunting with another weapon, but in some situtations, and in some areas it makes perfect sense to me.
I would still like to know what area of Ohio he was arrested in. It will (probably) make a difference. Come around any major city and he has a higher chance of getting the full brunt. Any of the more rural spots and he may stand a chance if he has a good attorney.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:33   #110
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Originally Posted by hamster View Post
No question the police officer really had his hands tied. My problem is with the law in Ohio.

It isn't straightforward. I can:

Disassemble my pistol completely, leave the firing pin at home, lock the loaded magazine in a safe to which I don't have they key. Get pulled over and STILL be charged with a felony.

Something is seriously wrong with that. I understand your desire to defend the need to enforce the law as written. I have no problem with that per se. However, the laws in Ohio pertaining to transporting weapons in vehicles is indefensible.
If an armed robbery is committed with a weapon as you described, should we remove the gun spec here in Ohio?


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Old 10-08-2012, 12:37   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
...
Years later it took an especially knowledgeable Rabbi to explain to me - and prove through Holy Scripture - that all sport hunting is wrong. We are ALL God's creatures; and the taking of any animal's life can only be justified (and forgiven) when that animal is taken as food. No other rationale is acceptable to God.

...

I hope if a herd of swine decide to make a meal out of your dad or son I am there instead of you to save the life of that human.

You might want to rethink your interpretation of God's will, and the laws that govern true Christianity.

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Old 10-08-2012, 12:38   #112
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Originally Posted by uptomyneck View Post
The Statist Apologist Doctrine montra here is older than "I bet I know where you got 'dem shoes."

That SOB that did the arresting violated the God given right that was promised to us in the 2nd. You're all in favor of stedfastly enforcing corrupt laws made by corrupt politicians. You Neocons are worse than the Communists. Wake the FU!
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If you're the only one in their front yard raising their rifle in defiance, it's still too early.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:42   #113
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So far from what I've read of the original story (as posted), this nightmare was self-created. If you carry a handgun in any state, you really need to be hyper vigilant when you leave your state. There aint no excuse for not knowing what other states require.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:46   #114
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
If an armed robbery is committed with a weapon as you described, should we remove the gun spec here in Ohio?


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Wow.

Are you seriously conflating the story of a man with no record who immediately notified the officer of his carry status with an armed robbery?

That comparison is so ludicrous I'm not even going to bother with it.

If you truly believe that the man in question so grievously injured the "State" of Ohio through his actions that he needs to be branded as a felon for life, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Last edited by hamster; 10-08-2012 at 12:48..
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:47   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesee View Post
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.
I always carry a 6" 357 when hunting.....it's just another tool to hunt with!
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:50   #116
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The guy definitely made his own bed by not knowing the laws of the state in which he'd be hunting/travelling.

The argument can certainly be made he shouldn't have had to look up Ohio law, but that's not the case now.

If I were on the jury, I would nullify and vote not guilty.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:57   #117
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So far from what I've read of the original story (as posted), this nightmare was self-created. If you carry a handgun in any state, you really need to be hyper vigilant when you leave your state. There aint no excuse for not knowing what other states require.
While I agree with you for the most part, I will add this. It is nearly impossible for any one person to understand all the laws in effect in their own area...and even less possible to know the laws in different states.

The legal system in this country is so complex that even an attorney (someone a Doctorate in law) isn't considered to be qualified to practice law in a different state without first passing the bar. The tax-code is so complex that major corporations spend millions of dollars per year hiring consultants to help them navigate the system.

The old saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is simply not realistic. I'd venture to say every peson on this board is guilty of violating some law at some point. Be it jaywalking, speeding or not filing a tax return for an item purchase online. There is no way to even know all applicable laws, let alone obey them.

We all just do the best we can and hope that the law is applied judiciously to those who are truly dangerous to society.

Back to the subject of Ohio Gun laws:

Roughly One year ago, if I walked into my local bar with my CCW IWB at 11:59 and 58 seconds I'd have been guilty of a felony. Exactly two seconds later On October 1st CCW in Bars became leag and thus I'm perfectly legal. I'm sure certain individuals on Glocktalk would be perfectly ok with locking me up for a year over those two seconds of being "ignorant" of the law.

Last edited by hamster; 10-08-2012 at 13:00..
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Old 10-08-2012, 13:44   #118
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Originally Posted by Jonesee View Post
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.
Two points:

One I don’t live in Ohio so not sure of the laws there.
Two I carry loaded handgun every place I go no matter where it is. Although I am an excellent marksman with my TC single shot 308 it is by far nothing more than a deer gun at best. If confronted with reality (the thing missing in your post) having a handgun available to transition to after my single round from the rifle has been fired is very comforting and makes perfect sense to me since the woods in my STATE are full of people that grow and manufacture illegal drugs and some might kill you for having walked past them.

Also to note, because I live in a state that allows its citizens rights vs. states that disallow their subjects the same I carry my weapons loaded and concealed in my vehicle and am not concerned with breaking laws because it is legal. Unloaded guns can be used to beat someone I guess…..
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Old 10-08-2012, 13:45   #119
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
If an armed robbery is committed with a weapon as you described, should we remove the gun spec here in Ohio?


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Do you think a person who has committed armed robbery is going to put his gun in the trunk?

A criminal will do whatever they want.

A normal citizen wouldnt shoot at you in the first place.

What makes people who pay a fee to be able to carry a gun in the car so much more special than those who havent or cant afford to pay up?

Might as well ban CCW holders from carrying a gun in the car in OH.
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Old 10-08-2012, 13:48   #120
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Originally Posted by hamster View Post
While I agree with you for the most part, I will add this. It is nearly impossible for any one person to understand all the laws in effect in their own area...and even less possible to know the laws in different states. ...

Yes, but there are a few laws I don't try to mess with.

IRS stuff
Gun stuff
Insurance/compliance stuff
Use of deadly force as an affirmative defense


and when I was much younger,
What was the age for consent
Speed limits


Not saying anyone else has to be like me, just how I chose to roll.

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Old 10-08-2012, 13:54   #121
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Also to note, because I live in a state that allows its citizens rights vs. states that disallow their subjects the same I carry my weapons loaded and concealed in my vehicle and am not concerned with breaking laws because it is legal. Unloaded guns can be used to beat someone I guess…..
Wasnt always that way, sadly. I was arrested in Irving back in 2004 for having an unloaded Browning Hi-power on the seat.

They picked me up because i had a magazine in my pocket. Cops said I should have had it in the trunk of my single cab pickup. [No, I didnt have a toolbox]

To be fair to the cops, I guess I should have taken a nap at a hotel, rather than a parking lot.

If I remember correctly the law read that the gun had to be unloaded and visible. I thought i was following the law.

At least it was just a misdemeanor, but it sucks to have to say you where arrested on a gun charge on some applications. And it stopped me from being a cop in Texas.

My lawyer said I could get it expunged, but I wasnt paying him anymore money at the time. I wonder if its too late?

Last edited by jp3975; 10-08-2012 at 13:59..
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Old 10-08-2012, 13:57   #122
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The funny part is, Ohio is a gun happy state. I should know, I worked in the office that issued CCW permits in my area. It is not difficult to follow the law.

I did not equate the armed robbery and the knucklehead who was in the OP. I was likening the gun comparison (no firing pin or whatever).

Thanks though.

I'm carrying my G27 right now and he's sitting in jail. Wah wah.

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Old 10-08-2012, 13:59   #123
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Originally Posted by hamster View Post
While I agree with you for the most part, I will add this. It is nearly impossible for any one person to understand all the laws in effect in their own area...and even less possible to know the laws in different states.

The legal system in this country is so complex that even an attorney (someone a Doctorate in law) isn't considered to be qualified to practice law in a different state without first passing the bar. The tax-code is so complex that major corporations spend millions of dollars per year hiring consultants to help them navigate the system.

The old saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is simply not realistic. I'd venture to say every peson on this board is guilty of violating some law at some point. Be it jaywalking, speeding or not filing a tax return for an item purchase online. There is no way to even know all applicable laws, let alone obey them.

I would go far to say anyone who has filed a tax return is potential felon. You have broken tax laws if you have filed.
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Old 10-08-2012, 14:00   #124
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I would go far to say anyone who has filed a tax return is potential felon. You have broken tax laws if you have filed.
I learned very young to hire a CPA to do mine.

Ffffff that.


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Old 10-08-2012, 14:02   #125
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Originally Posted by jp3975 View Post
Wasnt always that way, sadly. I was arrested in Irving back in 2004 for having an unloaded Browning Hi-power on the seat.

They picked me up because i had a magazine in my pocket. Cops said I should have had it in the trunk of my single cab pickup. [No, I didnt have a toolbox]

To be fair to the cops, I guess I should have taken a nap at a hotel, rather than a parking lot.

If I remember correctly the law read that the gun had to be unloaded and visible. I thought i was following the law.
Sounds like you were.
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