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Old 10-07-2012, 10:37   #41
Fire_Medic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie-Bean View Post
Correct RSA for the G17 and G19:

G17: 0-2-4 SPO # 8284
G19: 0-4-3 Part # 8703

He has the correct RSA for the G17/34.
100% correct sorry for the misinformation on my part.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:38   #42
DEADEYEGUY
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First GEN4 G19 made 800 rounds beore problems. Last one they sent to me went 2000 rounds before BTF problem. Something is obviously wearing out on these guns. most likely the extractor. Different levels of build quality or lack their of probably determine how long it takes for it to start.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:45   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker View Post

One important thing to note- this G17 has never failed in any way no matter what I put through it or how I held it. Heck, it even cycled and locked back fully submerged with two different types of ammo (done for a different video on my channel).

Yes, BTF is a problem that needs to be addressed, but this is still an extremely reliable design.
I will echo the above, I have not had a stoppage with the pistol but the ejection has become more erratic as the rounds pile on and the frequency of the brass to my face has increased as well.


Greg- I have not yet tried the 40 extractor, I did think about that but in doing research found that initially LW had the 9 and 40 parts mixed up and don't know where they stand now, so would I still need the 40 part or is the 9mm one the correct part now.

I should have the parts in from Smyrna this week sometime and will go from there.

As for the question on whether the new part is MIM or not, I have no clue, did not think to ask, but I believe it would be safe to assume the new part still is, the expense of changing the manufacturing process of this part would be up there so I don't think in the grand scheme of things there have been enough problematic pistols to warrant this.

I will also echo the other statement made about the round count of the average joes gun, most people don't put a few thousand rounds through a gun in a quarter of the year and on a lot of the reports of issues they started at about 1K rounds or higher.

I will update here as well on the parts I receive and the outcome if its ok with the OP, better than having multiple threads on the same subject.

in the mean time my M&P 45's are incoming and will be a nice addition to the safe and the holster.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:46   #44
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Awesome post Arc Angel. Thanks for the well written summary. I just broke 1k through my g19 and if start to have problems I will refer to your post for help.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:48   #45
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My Gen4 17 started acting up right around the 1000 round count. From 1000 rounds until 1500 rounds I had brass to the face and numerous stove pipes. (1 every 30 or so rounds). Glock replaced my ejector and the last range trip of a couple of hundred rounds showed the problem to be resolved; no brass to the face and no stove pipes. I just hope it lasts.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:00   #46
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So are the newer gen4's still being produced with MiM extractors? Or has Glock done something about this? I read they changed them in Nov 2011 but wondering if anyone can confirm this.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:05   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker View Post
So, you're saying that I'm breaking my wrists with a two-handed grip moreso than when I'm barely holding the pistol in the first clip and getting normal ejection? Heck, I do the tea cup pinky and all...

I've got 24 years shooting Glocks with no brass to face except for the first few boxes I ran through my brand new Gen 4 G23 two years ago. It was known then that the RSA was stiff and needed to be broken in, so it didn't bother me.

I've got countless posts here on Gen 4 threads saying, "Mine eject great, thanks!" I've used that G17 in other videos for my YouTube channel, showing beautiful ejection.

I shot 500 rounds that day out of the G17, giving it every chance to stop ejecting BTF. It did not. Once it started, the ejection kept hitting my shoulder and face and going over my head. I practically choked the brown out of it, and it still sent brass towards my shoulder and head.

As to point "C.", I realize that some just want to see one single clip of only shooting. The video of my Gen 4 G23 I'm finishing today will be more to your liking, I think.

That said, I make the kind of video I like to watch, and luckily, others do, too. I appreciate you taking the time to watch it and comment, though.
Raleigh Glocker,

please excuse the village-idiot for that post, every forum has one....

great video.....what is wrong with the glock is the slides are out-of-spec. the guns start out running fine but once the extractor gets smoothed-out and broken-in, thats when the out-of-spec slide starts causing problems....

why some guns have it and some don't, my opinion is that glock has several production lines making slides, and one or more of the machines has been cutting too much material off of the extractor port......
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:11   #48
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Here's another data point. I have pretty much gone to shooting all handloads, mostly 115 grain bullets (HP and FMJ) over 6.2 grains of Unique with a CCI 500 primer in various brands of cases. This is 1/10 th of a grain down from the max load. These were chronographed at 1236 fps average, which is about what Gold Dot 115's move at out of a 4" barrel. I have had no BTF with these, and they all go out either to the right or to the right and up, but always with enough oomph to not hit me. And they are accurate.

A week or so ago I tried a few WWB, and immediately had the BTF problem. This is with a Lone Wolf Distributers extractor, a White Sound Defense extra power extractor spring, and my SLB and EDP.

Maybe one reason Glock hasn't set this problem as a high priority (or as high as we'd prefer) is that they know the guns work well with the ammo they were designed to shoot.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:16   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post
Here's another data point. I have pretty much gone to shooting all handloads, mostly 115 grain bullets (HP and FMJ) over 6.2 grains of Unique with a CCI 500 primer in various brands of cases. This is 1/10 th of a grain down from the max load. These were chronographed at 1236 fps average, which is about what Gold Dot 115's move at out of a 4" barrel. I have had no BTF with these, and they all go out either to the right or to the right and up, but always with enough oomph to not hit me. And they are accurate.

A week or so ago I tried a few WWB, and immediately had the BTF problem. This is with a Lone Wolf Distributers extractor, a White Sound Defense extra power extractor spring, and my SLB and EDP.

Maybe one reason Glock hasn't set this problem as a high priority (or as high as we'd prefer) is that they know the guns work well with the ammo they were designed to shoot.
My load is as follows and the issues I am having are regardless of ammo:

Montana Gold or Xtreme 124gr FMJ/Plated
Once fired brass
Wolf/CCI primers
5.1 gr Winchester WSF
OAL 1.120

Have not chrono-graphed it, but been shooting this for a couple of years in various 9MM's with no issues, and have it on good authority this load mimmics the NATO 124gr ball ammo.

Last range trip I did buy a box of Independence 115gr FMJ, and one of PMC 115gr as well, and they BTF was even worse with that ammo, but still happening with my hand loads.

FM
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Last edited by Fire_Medic; 10-07-2012 at 11:17..
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:17   #50
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Tons of great thought & opinions in this thread,......thanks Guys!
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:20   #51
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Nice video. I registered on youtube today just so I could like it.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:35   #52
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Originally Posted by Beretta92guy View Post
Raleigh Glocker,

please excuse the village-idiot for that post, every forum has one....

great video.....what is wrong with the glock is the slides are out-of-spec. the guns start out running fine but once the extractor gets smoothed-out and broken-in, thats when the out-of-spec slide starts causing problems....

why some guns have it and some don't, my opinion is that glock has several production lines making slides, and one or more of the machines has been cutting too much material off of the extractor port......

Still on your "Farewell" Tour?

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Old 10-07-2012, 11:50   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post

Maybe one reason Glock hasn't set this problem as a high priority (or as high as we'd prefer) is that they know the guns work well with the ammo they were designed to shoot.
I mention this in the video right before getting beaned by Ranger T-Series 127gr +p+. As mentioned, they (and even weak ammo) worked great until that very day. The rest of the day, I got shoulder and head hits with every mag, no matter what I put in it.

That contrasts with my Gen 4 G23 which remains awesome with 2k rounds in it. It even forcefully ejected the WWB crap I made it eat for the first time that day.

It's hard for me to justify buying WWB when I can buy Speer more cheaply in bulk from sgammo.com and the like. I chrono'd everything that day, and the Speer is superior in every way. I knew WWB was bad, but when you get 1224fps and 1081fps in the same mag that you can actually feel the difference...
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:56   #54
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Originally Posted by Fire_Medic View Post
100% correct sorry for the misinformation on my part.
Just tryin' to help out, FM--I had to go to the beginning of the thread to make sure I knew which pistol he was having problems with (a G17 or G19...)

I'm hoping (like a lot of folks are) that there is a fix to all of this, and that Glock will make good to get everyone replacement parts needed to get their firearms in proper working order.

I'll contact them next week to see what their current parts list looks like. With the recent articles posted here regarding new/flat/non-MIM extractors, along with SLBs, I'll probably order a few extras just to have in the toolbox in case I start seeing some weirdo stuff happening.

Most of the time, I can correlate the powder charges I'm loading up with how the brass ejects from the pistols. As long as I'm loading on the hot-side of the scale, stock parts work just fine for me.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:29   #55
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I just uploaded hi-res photos of the ejector, extractor, SLB feed ramp, etc., up on my Facebook page. You can see them here:
Gen 4 G17 Photo Album

I also uploaded footage from earlier that day showing normal ejection from this pistol. The quality got screwed up by Facebook's compression, but it shows everything you need to see:
Gen 4 G17 Normal Ejection Video
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:32   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFR Spyder GT View Post
+1!




Yeah, but you're doing it wrong that's why you're getting BTF.

Ditch the gloves, stand up straight ( I've never understood the "Look at my butt, ain't it cute?" stance ) learn how to grip your Glock and the BTF problem will go away.

Thanks for posting the video because it clears shows what you are doing wrong.

Pretty simple.
Go sit down and let the grown-ups talk.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:34   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker View Post
........ Yes, BTF is a problem that needs to be addressed, but this is still an extremely reliable design.
How can you say that?

Personally I'd rather be a gunman than a gunman's target. All it takes is ONE red hot case to the eye and you're out of the fight!

One other thing: When I was a small boy my mother told me, 'Son, if you ever want to succeed at anything in your life, you're going to have to understand the problem for yourself.' 'Losers are people who rely on others to do their thinking for them; they don't really understand what they're up against; and, consequently, they get burned.'

When the day comes that I need Glock, Smyrna to do my thinking for me ....... I'll sell all my guns and take up fishing.



PS: The Facebook photos you've just posted show all the symptomatic evidence of what's going wrong with your F'd up Glock! Look at the marks in the metal; the trail is right there in front of you.

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Old 10-07-2012, 13:48   #58
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Quote:

And if you really want to know what I think, I think you should send your
video to Glock
I agree. I sent my problem gun to Glock twice and twice it came back with some new parts and same problems. I sent the video in with the gun the 3rd time and magically I got a new, well functioning, gun back
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:51   #59
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How can you say that?

Personally I'd rather be a gunman than a gunman's target. All it takes is ONE red hot case to the eye and you're out of the fight!

One other thing: When I was a small boy my mother told me, 'Son, if you ever want to succeed at anything in your life, you're going to have to understand the problem for yourself.' 'Losers are people who rely on others to do their thinking for them; they don't really understand what they're up against; and, consequently, they get burned.'

When the day comes that I need Glock, Smyrna to do my thinking for me ....... I'll sell all my guns and take up fishing.
Sure, BTF is a gray area with regards to what you might call "reliable function," but I'd rather a gun go "bang" and hit me with brass than a gun go "click" or fail to cycle the next round.

I'm not making these videos for you or anyone else that keeps telling me I should just fix this myself. I want to see what Glock does because that's the best that most Gen 4 owners will ever get. Think of it as smoking out everything you get when you buy a Glock, including customer service/warranty work.

I've got plenty of guns I tinker with because that's their nature (ARs I've built myself, the Handi Rifle featured in another video that's giving me fits with vertical stringing, etc.). This is a chance to define the "Glock experience" for the average customer. You might consider them "losers," by your definition, but I don't judge those who buy Glocks specifically because they are just supposed to work that harshly.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:54   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradd D View Post
Go sit down and let the grown-ups talk.
Amen! I can't believe the "stand up straight" remark. I guess all those top competitive shooters out there don't know how to stand yet. Crazy.

I have had this problem with my G20sf also. Got a shell stuck between my shooting glasses and my forehead. Burnt me pretty good. I fixed it (so far) by replacing the extractor with an older style without the loaded chamber bump. This might be a good fix but I'm not sure of the legality since technically I removed a 'safety' device. But it has fixed it. I have not got my round count up to where I'd consider it definitely fixed yet though. I'll post back after my in a few weeks after I have 1000+ rounds more through it.
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