[MikeG36]

Nice video. I registered on youtube today just so I could like it.

[Tiro Fijo]

Originally Posted by Beretta92guy

Raleigh Glocker,

please excuse the village-idiot for that post, every forum has one....

great video.....what is wrong with the glock is the slides are out-of-spec. the guns start out running fine but once the extractor gets smoothed-out and broken-in, thats when the out-of-spec slide starts causing problems....

why some guns have it and some don't, my opinion is that glock has several production lines making slides, and one or more of the machines has been cutting too much material off of the extractor port......

Still on your "Farewell" Tour?

[Raleigh Glocker]

Originally Posted by dhgeyer

Maybe one reason Glock hasn't set this problem as a high priority (or as high as we'd prefer) is that they know the guns work well with the ammo they were designed to shoot.

I mention this in the video right before getting beaned by Ranger T-Series 127gr +p+. As mentioned, they (and even weak ammo) worked great until that very day. The rest of the day, I got shoulder and head hits with every mag, no matter what I put in it.

That contrasts with my Gen 4 G23 which remains awesome with 2k rounds in it. It even forcefully ejected the WWB crap I made it eat for the first time that day.

It's hard for me to justify buying WWB when I can buy Speer more cheaply in bulk from sgammo.com and the like. I chrono'd everything that day, and the Speer is superior in every way. I knew WWB was bad, but when you get 1224fps and 1081fps in the same mag that you can actually feel the difference...

[Beanie-Bean]

Originally Posted by Fire_Medic

100% correct sorry for the misinformation on my part.

Just tryin' to help out, FM--I had to go to the beginning of the thread to make sure I knew which pistol he was having problems with (a G17 or G19...)

I'm hoping (like a lot of folks are) that there is a fix to all of this, and that Glock will make good to get everyone replacement parts needed to get their firearms in proper working order.

I'll contact them next week to see what their current parts list looks like. With the recent articles posted here regarding new/flat/non-MIM extractors, along with SLBs, I'll probably order a few extras just to have in the toolbox in case I start seeing some weirdo stuff happening.

Most of the time, I can correlate the powder charges I'm loading up with how the brass ejects from the pistols. As long as I'm loading on the hot-side of the scale, stock parts work just fine for me.

[Raleigh Glocker]

I just uploaded hi-res photos of the ejector, extractor, SLB feed ramp, etc., up on my Facebook page. You can see them here:
Gen 4 G17 Photo Album

I also uploaded footage from earlier that day showing normal ejection from this pistol. The quality got screwed up by Facebook's compression, but it shows everything you need to see:
Gen 4 G17 Normal Ejection Video

[Bradd D]

Originally Posted by FFR Spyder GT

+1!




Yeah, but you're doing it wrong that's why you're getting BTF.

Ditch the gloves, stand up straight ( I've never understood the "Look at my butt, ain't it cute?" stance ) learn how to grip your Glock and the BTF problem will go away.

Thanks for posting the video because it clears shows what you are doing wrong.

Pretty simple.

Go sit down and let the grown-ups talk.

[Arc Angel]

Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker

........ Yes, BTF is a problem that needs to be addressed, but this is still an extremely reliable design.

How can you say that?

Personally I'd rather be a gunman than a gunman's target. All it takes is ONE red hot case to the eye and you're out of the fight!

One other thing: When I was a small boy my mother told me, 'Son, if you ever want to succeed at anything in your life, you're going to have to understand the problem for yourself.' 'Losers are people who rely on others to do their thinking for them; they don't really understand what they're up against; and, consequently, they get burned.'

When the day comes that I need Glock, Smyrna to do my thinking for me ....... I'll sell all my guns and take up fishing.



PS: The Facebook photos you've just posted show all the symptomatic evidence of what's going wrong with your F'd up Glock! Look at the marks in the metal; the trail is right there in front of you.

[plouffedaddy]

And if you really want to know what I think, I think you should send your
video to Glock

I agree. I sent my problem gun to Glock twice and twice it came back with some new parts and same problems. I sent the video in with the gun the 3rd time and magically I got a new, well functioning, gun back

[Raleigh Glocker]

Originally Posted by Arc Angel

How can you say that?

Personally I'd rather be a gunman than a gunman's target. All it takes is ONE red hot case to the eye and you're out of the fight!

One other thing: When I was a small boy my mother told me, 'Son, if you ever want to succeed at anything in your life, you're going to have to understand the problem for yourself.' 'Losers are people who rely on others to do their thinking for them; they don't really understand what they're up against; and, consequently, they get burned.'

When the day comes that I need Glock, Smyrna to do my thinking for me ....... I'll sell all my guns and take up fishing.

Sure, BTF is a gray area with regards to what you might call "reliable function," but I'd rather a gun go "bang" and hit me with brass than a gun go "click" or fail to cycle the next round.

I'm not making these videos for you or anyone else that keeps telling me I should just fix this myself. I want to see what Glock does because that's the best that most Gen 4 owners will ever get. Think of it as smoking out everything you get when you buy a Glock, including customer service/warranty work.

I've got plenty of guns I tinker with because that's their nature (ARs I've built myself, the Handi Rifle featured in another video that's giving me fits with vertical stringing, etc.). This is a chance to define the "Glock experience" for the average customer. You might consider them "losers," by your definition, but I don't judge those who buy Glocks specifically because they are just supposed to work that harshly.

[walrus108]

Originally Posted by Bradd D

Go sit down and let the grown-ups talk.

Amen! I can't believe the "stand up straight" remark. I guess all those top competitive shooters out there don't know how to stand yet. Crazy.

I have had this problem with my G20sf also. Got a shell stuck between my shooting glasses and my forehead. Burnt me pretty good. I fixed it (so far) by replacing the extractor with an older style without the loaded chamber bump. This might be a good fix but I'm not sure of the legality since technically I removed a 'safety' device. But it has fixed it. I have not got my round count up to where I'd consider it definitely fixed yet though. I'll post back after my in a few weeks after I have 1000+ rounds more through it.

[dhgeyer]

Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker

I mention this in the video right before getting beaned by Ranger T-Series 127gr +p+. As mentioned, they (and even weak ammo) worked great until that very day.

OK, so much for that theory. Not the weak ammo.

Here's another thing I noticed. At precisely two minutes and fifty seconds into the video, you show the G17 in profile close up. The assembly tensioning the extractor is in backwards. The spring loaded bearing (SLB) is plainly visible just behind the extractor with a coil of the spring showing also. Did you, just by any chance, have the pistol in this condition when you were shooting the video? The spring coil that is showing could easily bind on the front of the channel it's in, as that end is quite sharp (sharp enough to chew up the front of the extractor depressor plunger after just a few hundred rounds).

Here's a screen shot I took from your video showing what I am talking about.

[icelandicstud]

imo new lock RSA is too strong for 9mm.

[Raleigh Glocker]

Originally Posted by dhgeyer

OK, so much for that theory. Not the weak ammo.

Here's another thing I noticed. At precisely two minutes and fifty seconds into the video, you show the G17 in profile close up. The assembly tensioning the extractor is in backwards. The spring loaded bearing (SLB) is plainly visible just behind the extractor with a coil of the spring showing also. Did you, just by any chance, have the pistol in this condition when you were shooting the video? The spring coil that is showing could easily bind on the front of the channel it's in, as that end is quite sharp (sharp enough to chew up the front of the extractor depressor plunger after just a few hundred rounds).

Here's a screen shot I took from your video showing what I am talking about.

Doh! Yes, I caught that later, but I didn't realize it was that obvious on the video. The gun was never fired that way.

I will add an annotation to the YouTube video.

[dhgeyer]

Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker

Doh! Yes, I caught that later, but I didn't realize it was that obvious on the video. The gun was never fired that way.

I will add an annotation to the YouTube video.

Darn! That would have been such an easy answer and fix.

[Raleigh Glocker]

Originally Posted by dhgeyer

Darn! That would have been such an easy answer and fix.

I don't know how long the plastic plunger would've lasted up against the extractor. If you look at the photos I linked to above, the bearing itself has some pretty good grooves being worn into it.

This slide was never detail stripped before setting up for the close-up, FWIW. I was just in a rush to get that clip finished because I was losing daylight fast, and I goobered the SLB orientation putting the slide back together for that one shot.

I honestly didn't even notice that you could make it out in the video. You certainly have an eye for detail.

[mike from philly]

Ral.G. .... do you have any old magazines? The ones before the cut outs. When you hit a run of BTF, switch the mags to the old style. See if that makes a difference.

My hypothesis is that the mags are flexing just enough to interfere with the ejecting brass.

[bunk22]

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo

A. You're breaking your wrists when you are getting BTF. Plain as day to see.

B. lose the operator gloves as they are over the top for the pistol range

C. make shorter vids that are to the point.

If you could, just post up the video you've done demonstrating the appropriate way to shoot a Glock, specifically a "malfunctioning" one. Just a link will do. Thanks.

[cowboy1964]

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo

A. You're breaking your wrists when you are getting BTF. Plain as day to see.

I didn't see that. All I see is brass going everywhere.

So tired of the excusers.

[cowboy1964]

Originally Posted by mike from philly

Ral.G. .... do you have any old magazines? The ones before the cut outs. When you hit a run of BTF, switch the mags to the old style. See if that makes a difference.

My hypothesis is that the mags are flexing just enough to interfere with the ejecting brass.

Why did he have no problems for the first xxx rounds?

[cowboy1964]

Originally Posted by plouffedaddy

I agree. I sent my problem gun to Glock twice and twice it came back with some new parts and same problems. I sent the video in with the gun the 3rd time and magically I got a new, well functioning, gun back

How did you "send the video in"? You actually made a DVD or what?

[RonS]

OP, I agree 100% with your assessment and motivations. I've been shooting for just over 50 years, mostly handguns and I have guns I tinker with like my 1911s but this is a Glock. If you can't trust a Glock, what can you trust?

[Raleigh Glocker]

Originally Posted by mike from philly

Ral.G. .... do you have any old magazines? The ones before the cut outs. When you hit a run of BTF, switch the mags to the old style. See if that makes a difference.

My hypothesis is that the mags are flexing just enough to interfere with the ejecting brass.

I don't have any 9mm mags without the ambi cut. That said, I was using two randomly selected mags out of the 10 I own, and both started the day cycling fine, ending the day with BTF.

Interesting idea, though.

[FFR Spyder GT]

Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker

So, as long as you:
1. Don't wear gloves.
2. Stand up straight.
3. Grip a Glock with the "Glock Perfection" grip...

...you won't get BTF.

Regardless of what you think about 1-3 above, 24 years of doing it wrong has not resulted in BTF until now (with one noted exception). 900 rounds of doing it wrong has not resulted in BTF with this very gun. It also somehow doesn't happen when I shoot my Gen 2 G20, Gen 4 G23, USP40, P9C, 1911, Colt Anaconda... (OK, so it's hard to get BTF with the last one unless you try)

Something changed that day, and if it was me, then jeez, what will happen if I'm ever staring down someone else's barrel again and have to take off my gloves (if I'm wearing any), stand up straight, and get that perfect grip to avoid getting hot brass in the eye. Do you really expect that all of the LEOs out there armed with Glocks will be able to produce this grip that you're talking about in a time of need?

I will post more video of me shooting that day without BTF with that very gun on my Facebook page for those who are interested and link here once its done.

ETA: Wow! It looks like a few of us had the same reaction and were posting at the same time.

Yeah, all the people with the same reaction have BTF problems and those that are telling you what you're doing wrong don't.

Gee, I think is see a pattern.

[Hawaiiglock]

Question, if under powered ammo was the culprit for all the problems that Glock's are having, wouldn't the issue present itself right out of the box and not 1000 rounds later when the guns are broken in? On a brand new gun everything is tight and the springs are stiff, if under powered ammo was an issue wouldn't new guns choke on it?

I have two gen 3 9mm's, a 19 and 26. I have about 600 rounds through each gun, all WWB (and a few boxes of Wolf steel). The 19 hasn't missed a beat, around the 200 round mark the 26 had two BTF out of the same mag, then no issues after that. It will be at least another 6 months until I get over the 1000 round mark, if there is a problem it would be nice to have a factory fix.

[9mmdude]

Originally Posted by Hawaiiglock

Question, if under powered ammo was the culprit for all the problems that Glock's are having, wouldn't the issue present itself right out of the box and not 1000 rounds later when the guns are broken in? On a brand new gun everything is tight and the springs are stiff, if under powered ammo was an issue wouldn't new guns choke on it? ....................

No one can argue that! Good point!