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Old 09-29-2012, 21:07   #51
jokeruh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quack View Post
The grip safety on Valor is cast.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
Thanks. I didn't know that.
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Old 09-29-2012, 21:14   #52
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Has anybody ever heard of durability problems with a cast part grip safety?

I assume that the grip safety is probably one of the least stressed parts.

I am not sure which manufacturer's grip safety this is, but I did find this interesting: https://severnscustom.com/Hard_Hat_Durability.html

The reason I ask is because reliability and durability are my most important criteria as I shop for a 1911 in this price range.
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Old 09-29-2012, 21:21   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokeruh View Post
Has anybody ever heard of durability problems with a cast part grip safety?

I assume that the grip safety is probably one of the least stressed parts.

I am not sure which manufacturer's grip safety this is, but I did find this interesting: https://severnscustom.com/Hard_Hat_Durability.html

The reason I ask is because reliability and durability are my most important criteria as I shop for a 1911 in this price range.
Not really, a majority of them are cast, with the exception of EGW and the Wilson Hardcore parts. There may be more, but those are the 2 I can think of that aren't cast.

Up until the last year or 2, the lower end Wilson's were cast. Ed Brown safeties are cast.

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Old 09-29-2012, 21:31   #54
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Thanks again
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Old 09-30-2012, 00:29   #55
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Originally Posted by jokeruh View Post
I am currently trying to decide between a low end Baer and a Valor. I don't have the opportunity to shoot either one so I have to resort to reading and the comparisons that others make.

First thing that I found is that many people compare pre 2010 Valors to low end Baers (and other brands). While this is fair if a person is trying to compare $1100-1200 pre 2010 models to $1800-1900 Baers, I think most would concede that the Baer, which costs about $600-$700, would be a better gun.

Second, I am shopping for 2012 models (because I will buy NIB) so I am comparing the differences between the new Valor and Baer.

Third, in my judgment, it is only fair to compare the prices of the SS Valor to Baer. The SS Valor is about $1400 street compared to Baer at about $1900.....a $500 difference. The "Black" is a $300 metal-bonding finish that can be added to any pistol. So, if you want to compare a Black Valor to a Baer with a similar treatment, you have to add $300. That leaves you with Black Valor: $1800; and Baer with treatment: $2200. No doubt you could leave the Baer untreated, but based on my research, the finish is not very durable if it is used for carry or not handled very carefully. Additionally, the Baer is not as rust resistant.

Other than those comments, this is what I have learned (these are relative comparisons to ONLY low end Baer and Valor):

Valor:

Pros: Stainless (might be a con for some since many prefer carbon), no MIM or cast parts, lighter trigger, cheaper, no FCS (personal preference), excellent accuracy, excellent fit and finish

Cons: Stainless only (no carbon options), only 5 year warranty, lacks the prestige of the higher end guns, relatively new manufacturer

Baer:

Pros: Carbon (or stainless if you prefer), "hard fit" barrel, excellent accuracy, known durability and reliability, excellent reputation, excellent fit and finish

Cons: Relatively non durable finish, about $300-$400 more than Valor, FCS (personal preference), has cast parts (personal preference though it bothers some)



There are probably some more pros and cons for each, but these are what come to mind. If you don't like my comparisons, then that is fine. I don't own either one so I don't have any personal biases or first hand experience. I do know that - especially when it comes to this much money - people get emotional and subjective. I have simply listed the items that are commonly reported from many different people
Nice summary, but my Valor comes in third when I compare it to my two Baers.
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Old 10-01-2012, 21:52   #56
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Nice summary, but my Valor comes in third when I compare it to my two Baers.
Which Baers do you have? Also, what year is your Valor?

Thanks!
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Old 10-01-2012, 23:03   #57
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Love my 2011 Dan Wesson CBOB, only thing I took back from CA that I love! The CBOB in 2010 started using the forged frames like the Valors. I almost sold it for a black VBOB, but when I looked at it, the polished flats and blasted top and bottom were just too pretty to get rid of. So now I am just saving for a black VBOB!
BTW 2k plus rounds through my DW and not a single failure since the first 10 or so shots when brand new! "break in"
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:34   #58
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Quote:
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Which Baers do you have? Also, what year is your Valor?

Thanks!
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:59   #59
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Not really, a majority of them are cast, with the exception of EGW and the Wilson Hardcore parts. There may be more, but those are the 2 I can think of that aren't cast.

Up until the last year or 2, the lower end Wilson's were cast. Ed Brown safeties are cast.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
Liebenberg uses forged grip safeties. They're made in house.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:01   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokeruh View Post
I am currently trying to decide between a low end Baer and a Valor. I don't have the opportunity to shoot either one so I have to resort to reading and the comparisons that others make.

First thing that I found is that many people compare pre 2010 Valors to low end Baers (and other brands). While this is fair if a person is trying to compare $1100-1200 pre 2010 models to $1800-1900 Baers, I think most would concede that the Baer, which costs about $600-$700, would be a better gun.

Second, I am shopping for 2012 models (because I will buy NIB) so I am comparing the differences between the new Valor and Baer.

Third, in my judgment, it is only fair to compare the prices of the SS Valor to Baer. The SS Valor is about $1400 street compared to Baer at about $1900.....a $500 difference. The "Black" is a $300 metal-bonding finish that can be added to any pistol. So, if you want to compare a Black Valor to a Baer with a similar treatment, you have to add $300. That leaves you with Black Valor: $1800; and Baer with treatment: $2200. No doubt you could leave the Baer untreated, but based on my research, the finish is not very durable if it is used for carry or not handled very carefully. Additionally, the Baer is not as rust resistant.

Other than those comments, this is what I have learned (these are relative comparisons to ONLY low end Baer and Valor):

Valor:

Pros: Stainless (might be a con for some since many prefer carbon), no MIM or cast parts, lighter trigger, cheaper, no FCS (personal preference), excellent accuracy, excellent fit and finish

Cons: Stainless only (no carbon options), only 5 year warranty, lacks the prestige of the higher end guns, relatively new manufacturer

Baer:

Pros: Carbon (or stainless if you prefer), "hard fit" barrel, excellent accuracy, known durability and reliability, excellent reputation, excellent fit and finish

Cons: Relatively non durable finish, about $300-$400 more than Valor, FCS (personal preference), has cast parts (personal preference though it bothers some)



There are probably some more pros and cons for each, but these are what come to mind. If you don't like my comparisons, then that is fine. I don't own either one so I don't have any personal biases or first hand experience. I do know that - especially when it comes to this much money - people get emotional and subjective. I have simply listed the items that are commonly reported from many different people
I MUCH prefer carbon steel for 1911s. Its the way to go for the tightest tolerences. Baer won't even give you their best accuracy guarantee on a stainless gun.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:50   #61
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Quote:
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I MUCH prefer carbon steel for 1911s. Its the way to go for the tightest tolerences.





Me too and I MUCH prefer hard fit carbon Kart barrels over drop in 416 SS barrels.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:06   #62
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Me too and I MUCH prefer hard fit carbon Kart barrels over drop in 416 SS barrels.
According to this comparison, it doesn't much matter:

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321236
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:31   #63
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Personally, I can do without the meaningless put 300-400 rounds through each and call it a extensive comparison.

The guy that did the comparison is a well respected gunsmith that happens to sell BOTH lines of guns. So there is no bias between DW and Baer on his part.

Too bad you can't do extensive testing because your Kimber won't make it 300-400 rounds without a malfunction!
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Old 10-08-2012, 22:54   #64
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My Kimber CDP Pro Compact hasn't had any problems. Perhaps I've just been lucky.

I've been quite happy with my Dan Wessons. I haven't run them through comparisons, but they factory triggers have been excellent. I have a Heritage that was one of their lower-end models, but which is absolutely (but not too) tight. The slide really feels nice; very smooth, very different than some of my other 1911's. For a low-end production pistol, it's quite good.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:51   #65
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I've been looking into getting a current Valor in black, but they're expensive ($1900-ish for CA SSE prices). I considered a Les Baer, but what really turned me off was the finish on them and how they wore rather quickly, from what I've personally seen.... it's a peeve of mine to have a durable black finish that won't wear fast.

However, for a few hundred bucks more I'm currently now considering an EB Special Forces, or even comparable to that a LB SRP. While I like the fit & finish of the Valor, I'm wondering if it's worth it to spend a little bit more on the EB SF or LB SRP.
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Old 10-13-2012, 19:05   #66
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I've been looking into getting a current Valor in black, but they're expensive ($1900-ish for CA SSE prices). I considered a Les Baer, but what really turned me off was the finish on them and how they wore rather quickly, from what I've personally seen.... it's a peeve of mine to have a durable black finish that won't wear fast.

However, for a few hundred bucks more I'm currently now considering an EB Special Forces, or even comparable to that a LB SRP. While I like the fit & finish of the Valor, I'm wondering if it's worth it to spend a little bit more on the EB SF or LB SRP.
I got my SS Valor for $1,350 shipped.
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Old 10-14-2012, 19:41   #67
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Mine was right at 1,300.
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Old 10-14-2012, 20:39   #68
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I've seen Nowlin Barrels do less than 1" groups @ 50 yds all day long. Nobody could shoot this so I don't think makes a bit of difference as far as accuracy goes. I will say that Karts are generally less expensive but that doesn't matter in this comparison. To me, how could you go wrong with either?
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