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Old 10-05-2012, 19:09   #26
rockymtnhorror
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My SO likes her lever action Marlin in 38/357 mag. None of this fancy stuff for her. Since I reload both those, it works for me!
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Old 10-05-2012, 20:40   #27
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My wife shoots the same thing I do. My car gun is a Colt LE6920. To this day I still don't understand why people have a beef with direct impingement on a semi auto rifle. It has worked reliably for how many decades now? I've had my share of AK's and they are no easier to clean. One takes as much time for me as the other. I've never had an AK style rifle as accurate as my Colt's but I'm sure one could be or has been built to be every bit as accurate. That said I feel the majority are accurate enough for the intended use. I'd feel well protected with either choice.
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Old 10-05-2012, 20:58   #28
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Mine runs a PS90. She was running a .223 caliber AK with an Aimpoint T1 before that, but really got attached to my PS90.
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Old 10-05-2012, 21:18   #29
ChuteTheMall
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If 75 pound Viet Cong girls can handle the recoil of 7.62x39 in AK's, anybody can.



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Old 10-06-2012, 00:31   #30
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well, its easy to handle the recoil when you don't put the stock to your shoulder.
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Old 10-06-2012, 00:54   #31
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I know.......I just ordered a Vepr in 7.62x39.....just $499 =).

I'll bring the Vepr 7.62x39 and a Saiga 223 to the range with us (wife and my 2 girls) and see how it goes.

I actually bought the 223 Saiga for the wife a while ago. My thought at the time was that I was eventually going to buy an AR (just to know how to manipulate, assemble/disassemble, etc) and to stay with one caliber for rifle ammo.

Still on the fence about that one caliber idea. My friend has been preaching diversity of calibers to me but I haven't bought it yet.

Since I found out that I don't really care about the AR (because of my laziness, the AR itself is fine) and might not buy another AR, I may just go the AK/7.62x39 route if the wife/kids are okay with it.

I'll probably still keep the 223 Saiga to tinker with and to let other people try at our shooting events. (translated: I'm a gun ho)

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Old 10-06-2012, 07:03   #32
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My other half shoots my Beretta Storm like a champ and prefers it over my other toys.
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Old 10-06-2012, 15:22   #33
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all my eggs in the 40sw basket

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Old 10-06-2012, 15:53   #34
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all my eggs in the 40sw basket

The 40 is so new that it is already plus p compared to 45 and 9 so I have Glock 23 22 35 and the magical kel tec 2000 in 40 so my 15 and 22 round Glock mags fit all. Big enough for bear and the kel tec makes the 40 like a ten. It will fold to 16 inches and 4 pounds.
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Old 10-06-2012, 17:13   #35
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The 40 is so and new that it is already plus p compared to 45 and 9 so I have Glock 23 22 35 and the magical kel tec 2000 in 40 so my 15 and the22 round Glock mags fit all. Big enough for bear and the kel tec makes the 40 like a ten. It will fold to 16 inches and 4 pounds.
Pistol rounds, in any caliber, from any barrel length, are poor fight stoppers.
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Old 10-06-2012, 19:19   #36
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you are entitled to your house and plane but not to your facts:-)
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Old 10-06-2012, 19:40   #37
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you are entitled to your house and plane but not to your facts:-)
Well you go on thinking that you've got the hammer of thor then. Someone who knows better will find you to be a convenient resupply point.
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Old 10-06-2012, 19:54   #38
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So you generalize but is a 44mag from a rifle more or less than a 5.56 from 16"?
U talking bear or man or what is the difference?
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Old 10-06-2012, 19:57   #39
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the 500 S&W is like a one ounce slug in 12 ga or would you rather have 55 gr 5.56 16" ?
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Old 10-06-2012, 20:06   #40
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My wife likes the AR.
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Old 10-06-2012, 20:10   #41
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So you generalize but is a 44mag from a rifle more or less than a 5.56 from 16"?
U talking bear or man or what is the difference?
I was talking about wrol/shtf but I would not use a pistol for hunting either, and especially not bear. Rifle rounds just do the job better. Better terminal ballistics, more energy delivered to the target, and the fact that rifles are better at penetrating armor.

That .44 mag you refer to will be easily stopped by kevlar. Personally, I keep pistols, and pistol caliber carbines, in the 'weapons of last resort' category.

And yes, for engaging targets at ANY distance, I will gladly take 5.56 over .500 sw.
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Old 10-06-2012, 20:22   #42
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Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
If 75 pound Viet Cong girls can handle the recoil of 7.62x39 in AK's, anybody can.



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Old 10-06-2012, 23:15   #43
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Bumpfire - check out the above video. It opened my eyes.
Before seeing the video I was just about to sell my Saiga 223and my 10mm S&W 1006. After seeing the video I deleted the listing for the Saiga. I still plan to sell the 1006 but I've picked up a Glock 20 to replace it.

I've always been told service pistol calibers (9mm, 40, 45) aren't that powerful and that you have to just keep shooting till the threat is stopped. The problem is the threat may kill/maim you before he is stopped.

I had a 40sw carbine.....it was okay but I replaced it with an AR (which I replaced with a Saiga).

But I do understand wanting to use common ammo/mags.

Best wishes!
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:22   #44
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Pistol rounds, in any caliber, from any barrel length, are poor fight stoppers.
I see a pistol-caliber carbine as a "tweener". Definitely not as capable in most scenarios as a rifle-caliber carbine, but extremely more capable than a pistol-caliber pistol.

Don't know how the .40 fares from a carbine, but I would expect that it would be better than the 9mm; and a 9mm carbine properly loaded pretty much equals a .41 magnum revolver power-wise. (Over 700 ft/lbs; chrono'ed them myself.) It wouldn't equal the .41 magnum on large game due to the very real penetration differences, but on human-size targets, the energy of impact is the same.

This is one of those unending debates like '9mm vs 45acp' - they each have advantages & disadvantages. A rifle-caliber carbine is more powerful and can penetrate armor better. A pistol-caliber carbine can be used by newb shooters more proficiently and can simplify logistics, and still delivers surprisingly effective levels of energy.

I'm an AR guy first and an AK guy second; I'm definitely a "rifle-caliber" guy first. But after years of actually using and chronographing pistol-caliber carbines, while I prefer an car-15 or ak, I don't think I'd be terrified if all I had was the camp-9; as long as we're talking about human threats and not grizzly bears. Facing a human threat with a gun that's effectively a very-low-recoil, fast-shooting .41 magnum...? It's not my first choice, but I can absolutely live with that in a pinch.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:01   #45
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I forgot to mention that a big part of the reason why I soid the 40sw carbine was because we're restricted to 10rd max pistol mags. (High capacity rifle mags are allowed here)

The other minor reason was it felt so damn clunky......I think it was a Ruger PC4 or PC40. I think it was a "blow back" or whatever design.

But I have to say it was reliable.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:33   #46
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Does it really matter if it's a pistol caliber or not? I mean truly, if you know how to use it and use it efficiently then it's all about shot placements! After all the first rule to a gun fight is to have a gun.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:42   #47
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See the video above. See what tumbling or fragmenting rifle bullet will do. See what a pistol will do. That guy works in an ER and I'm inclined to think that he has info worth listening to.

Personally, I could make do with a 10rd max mag pistol caliber rifle but I felt a 30rd AR/AK would be a better fit for me.

Yes - shot placement is #1. But the CNS is a pretty small target and the sternum is pretty tuff....so good center mass shots may fail. So rifle caliber is kind of like insurance....or increases the % of a stop.

If the BG's were kind enough to stand still with their heads in full view that would make firearm/ammo selection so much easier =)

I have no quarrel with pistol caliber rifles.

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Old 10-07-2012, 14:24   #48
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What carbine do your wife/kids use?
I don't have kids. My wife uses a Marlin Camp9 9mm - Hello Kitty edition.
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Old 10-07-2012, 14:34   #49
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Hmmmm......well at least its not pink. But hey, if it makes her happy, everyone else is happy =)
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Old 10-07-2012, 19:52   #50
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The DR did not mention the greater power and accuracy of a rifle length pistol caliber and when he refered to the 22lr as a 22mm I felt he is more dr than gun person.
The original question was what do you like? carry? I did not think I would have to defend my choice?
I will change to the 223 5.56 when you show me one that folds in to 16" and 4 pounds and takes my 40sw 15 and 22 round mags?
I love Glock Talk:-)
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