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Old 10-06-2012, 20:10   #41
TactiCool
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpfire View Post
So you generalize but is a 44mag from a rifle more or less than a 5.56 from 16"?
U talking bear or man or what is the difference?
I was talking about wrol/shtf but I would not use a pistol for hunting either, and especially not bear. Rifle rounds just do the job better. Better terminal ballistics, more energy delivered to the target, and the fact that rifles are better at penetrating armor.

That .44 mag you refer to will be easily stopped by kevlar. Personally, I keep pistols, and pistol caliber carbines, in the 'weapons of last resort' category.

And yes, for engaging targets at ANY distance, I will gladly take 5.56 over .500 sw.
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Old 10-06-2012, 20:22   #42
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If 75 pound Viet Cong girls can handle the recoil of 7.62x39 in AK's, anybody can.



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Old 10-06-2012, 23:15   #43
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Bumpfire - check out the above video. It opened my eyes.
Before seeing the video I was just about to sell my Saiga 223and my 10mm S&W 1006. After seeing the video I deleted the listing for the Saiga. I still plan to sell the 1006 but I've picked up a Glock 20 to replace it.

I've always been told service pistol calibers (9mm, 40, 45) aren't that powerful and that you have to just keep shooting till the threat is stopped. The problem is the threat may kill/maim you before he is stopped.

I had a 40sw carbine.....it was okay but I replaced it with an AR (which I replaced with a Saiga).

But I do understand wanting to use common ammo/mags.

Best wishes!
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:22   #44
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Originally Posted by TactiCool View Post
Pistol rounds, in any caliber, from any barrel length, are poor fight stoppers.
I see a pistol-caliber carbine as a "tweener". Definitely not as capable in most scenarios as a rifle-caliber carbine, but extremely more capable than a pistol-caliber pistol.

Don't know how the .40 fares from a carbine, but I would expect that it would be better than the 9mm; and a 9mm carbine properly loaded pretty much equals a .41 magnum revolver power-wise. (Over 700 ft/lbs; chrono'ed them myself.) It wouldn't equal the .41 magnum on large game due to the very real penetration differences, but on human-size targets, the energy of impact is the same.

This is one of those unending debates like '9mm vs 45acp' - they each have advantages & disadvantages. A rifle-caliber carbine is more powerful and can penetrate armor better. A pistol-caliber carbine can be used by newb shooters more proficiently and can simplify logistics, and still delivers surprisingly effective levels of energy.

I'm an AR guy first and an AK guy second; I'm definitely a "rifle-caliber" guy first. But after years of actually using and chronographing pistol-caliber carbines, while I prefer an car-15 or ak, I don't think I'd be terrified if all I had was the camp-9; as long as we're talking about human threats and not grizzly bears. Facing a human threat with a gun that's effectively a very-low-recoil, fast-shooting .41 magnum...? It's not my first choice, but I can absolutely live with that in a pinch.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:01   #45
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I forgot to mention that a big part of the reason why I soid the 40sw carbine was because we're restricted to 10rd max pistol mags. (High capacity rifle mags are allowed here)

The other minor reason was it felt so damn clunky......I think it was a Ruger PC4 or PC40. I think it was a "blow back" or whatever design.

But I have to say it was reliable.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:33   #46
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Does it really matter if it's a pistol caliber or not? I mean truly, if you know how to use it and use it efficiently then it's all about shot placements! After all the first rule to a gun fight is to have a gun.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:42   #47
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See the video above. See what tumbling or fragmenting rifle bullet will do. See what a pistol will do. That guy works in an ER and I'm inclined to think that he has info worth listening to.

Personally, I could make do with a 10rd max mag pistol caliber rifle but I felt a 30rd AR/AK would be a better fit for me.

Yes - shot placement is #1. But the CNS is a pretty small target and the sternum is pretty tuff....so good center mass shots may fail. So rifle caliber is kind of like insurance....or increases the % of a stop.

If the BG's were kind enough to stand still with their heads in full view that would make firearm/ammo selection so much easier =)

I have no quarrel with pistol caliber rifles.

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Old 10-07-2012, 14:24   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim808 View Post
What carbine do your wife/kids use?
I don't have kids. My wife uses a Marlin Camp9 9mm - Hello Kitty edition.
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Old 10-07-2012, 14:34   #49
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Hmmmm......well at least its not pink. But hey, if it makes her happy, everyone else is happy =)
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Old 10-07-2012, 19:52   #50
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The DR did not mention the greater power and accuracy of a rifle length pistol caliber and when he refered to the 22lr as a 22mm I felt he is more dr than gun person.
The original question was what do you like? carry? I did not think I would have to defend my choice?
I will change to the 223 5.56 when you show me one that folds in to 16" and 4 pounds and takes my 40sw 15 and 22 round mags?
I love Glock Talk:-)
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Old 10-07-2012, 19:53   #51
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Someone may have mentioned it earlier, but with the 10-round limit, what about an sks carbine? Top-loading's not ideal (unless you're talking to a rabid Garand-ophile), but the price of the gun & ammo both would lend themselves to obtaining more training, more practice, and more depth of stocked supplies. You'd get maximum capacity, plenty of power, as cheap a defensive caliber as you're going to find, and a gun/caliber that would work for the feral hogs as well.
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Old 10-09-2012, 00:23   #52
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Bumpfire - Sorry bro!! I apologize, I did not intend to attack you and I'm sorry if it sounded that way. I have no quarrel with pistol caliber carbines. I can see the sense in common ammo/mags.

Quake - I used to have a sks. I regret selling it to raise money to buy an AK. That bayonet was so cool.

The 10 rd max only applies to pistol mags. Hi cap rifle mags are allowed.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:05   #53
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...The 10 rd max only applies to pistol mags. Hi cap rifle mags are allowed.
In that case, as much as I like (and babble on about ) pistol-caliber carbines, I'd really steer toward something that didn't have that silly restriction. If my choice is between a 30-shot rifle-caliber carbine or a 10-shot pistol-caliber carbine, no contest.
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