4 prong dryer receptacle wiring? - Page 2

certifiedfunds · 10-06-2012, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hines57

True, saved a bunch of money. Besides it was a family project. My daughter helped wire it and got her electrical merit badge for Girl Scouts. I let her do the 15 & 20 amp breakers.

.

Kids are good for checking to see if wires are hot or not.

stevemc · 10-06-2012, 14:31

Just to be sure, you may want to go back with a screw driver and re-tighten all connections. The main neutral in particular is notorious for being loose if not re-torqued. BTW we normally would have a #6 ground also. Maybe I'm not seeing it. Did you ground the meter?

CitizenOfDreams · 10-06-2012, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hines57

Is it me, or is all your neutral current (the bus on the right) going through a single 12AWG piece of bare wire? And where exactly are the neutral and the ground, are they tied together some place ahead of the panel?

Any professional electricians here on the board?

stevemc · 10-06-2012, 15:44

I'm a supervising electrician in Chicago and have been in business for 18 years. The neutral caries the difference between the phases. For example if the black has a load of 15 amps. and the red is 10 then the neutral is carrying 5 for that circuit. The wire you are referring to is larger than 12. I haven't seen a setup like this before though, looks like a #8. The manufacturer probably sells a bar that would tie the two busses together, and may be a better way of doing it. The bar on the right may be meant for grounding only. Can't really tell from the picture, but is looks to be isolated from the panel with plastic standoffs. We also don't use the SE type of cable in the picture, which is basically unprotected from the transformer to the main breaker (unless there is a breaker on the meter fitting). Panel should have come with a bonding screw also, but can't really see it. Still waiting to hear where the #6 ground (min. for 200A. panel) is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

Kids are good for checking to see if wires are hot or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitizenOfDreams

Is it me, or is all your neutral current (the bus on the right) going through a single 12AWG piece of bare wire? And where exactly are the neutral and the ground, are they tied together some place ahead of the panel?

Any professional electricians here on the board?

Hines57 · 10-06-2012, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

Kids are good for checking to see if wires are hot or not.

Little whiner said that is shocks more than the cattle prod. Bet she won't touch that bare wire again.

Hines57 · 10-06-2012, 16:30

I added the 2nd bus on the right, trying to keep it cleaned up inside. The wire connecting the 2 blocks is the same as I used for the ground (far left side, buried behind the other). Don't remember if it was 6 or 8. Neither bus was bonded, ran screws through the each into the cabinet.

certifiedfunds · 10-06-2012, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hines57

Little whiner said that is shocks more than the cattle prod. Bet she won't touch that bare wire again.

She'll thank you when she's older.

CitizenOfDreams · 10-06-2012, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevemc

I'm a supervising electrician in Chicago and have been in business for 18 years. The neutral caries the difference between the phases. For example if the black has a load of 15 amps. and the red is 10 then the neutral is carrying 5 for that circuit. The wire you are referring to is larger than 12. I haven't seen a setup like this before though, looks like a #8.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but common sense tells me that the neutral wire should be rated for the worst case scenario (one phase loaded to maximum current, the other phase completely unloaded). The bare wire in question might be #8, but it's still visibly smaller than the red and black phase wires coming to the panel.

Bren · 10-06-2012, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by devildog2067

You understand the wisdom of that statement the first time you work on something that someone else wired up who never learned those rules.

It reminded me of seeing band in New Orleans, in a shady venue where the guy doing the wiring knew it didn't matter which side of the outlet you connected the white or black to. He didn't choose the same side on the outlet for the bass amp and the outlet for the PA. They took the bass player away in an ambulance - end of show. Surprisingly, not that uncommon.

stevemc · 10-09-2012, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitizenOfDreams

Correct me if I'm wrong, but common sense tells me that the neutral wire should be rated for the worst case scenario (one phase loaded to maximum current, the other phase completely unloaded). The bare wire in question might be #8, but it's still visibly smaller than the red and black phase wires coming to the panel.

I agree with you. Downsizing the neutral is not a good idea and there is really no reason to do it. That just brings up a whole other discussion. We all believe that working on our own house is our right, but when I see a homemade solution like this it bothers me. What other cost saving actions were taken? I don't believe there is a #6 ground (there I said it). Proper bonding is REQUIRED. Is the meter and drop adequate for 200 amps? Are future owners of this house in harms way without knowing it? Would you be comfortable knowing a girl scout wired the circuits in your house for a patch? Without trying to sound crass, this is a good example of why there are electrical inspectors and laws regarding service upgrades. I see this more and more and it scares the **** out of me.

**larry_minn** · 10-09-2012, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevemc

I agree with you. Downsizing the neutral is not a good idea and there is really no reason to do it. That just brings up a whole other discussion. We all believe that working on our own house is our right, but when I see a homemade solution like this it bothers me. What other cost saving actions were taken? I don't believe there is a #6 ground (there I said it). Proper bonding is REQUIRED. Is the meter and drop adequate for 200 amps? Are future owners of this house in harms way without knowing it? Would you be comfortable knowing a girl scout wired the circuits in your house for a patch? Without trying to sound crass, this is a good example of why there are electrical inspectors and laws regarding service upgrades. I see this more and more and it scares the **** out of me.

Its a good idea to have a basic knowledge, pick up a "wireing simplified" type book... Its not rocket science. Inspectors are a nice "thought" They stick tester in GFI outlets, other outlets they can easily see, sign off. (On initial I did mention I was moving water heater as too close, some other changes so he did have idea I had SOME clue as to code. I tend to over build stuff. I don't use 14 guage. 12 and 10 for circuts (110-120)
Important thing to know. Electricity is composed of billions of little things that race thru wires. They are just LOOKING for chance to jump off and bite a person, and or build up heat and start a fire. So you contain them well and don't give them a chance to escape. They don't merge will either. If you run them 6 lanes wide going in and only 4 lanes going back there will be traffic accidents, some will try short cuts. :0////