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Old 10-06-2012, 08:41   #51
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Originally Posted by Naelbis View Post
Wow....I don't think I can even give your post the response it deserves without breaking the TOS....

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A productive sector worker probably could. Like I said: skill sets
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:44   #52
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Originally Posted by Naelbis View Post
Wow....I don't think I can even give your post the response it deserves without breaking the TOS....

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You need to learn a few things about CF and his echo chamber. He does this to make himself feel better about himself. If he does this in real life people punch him in the nose or worse ignore him.

BTW another GTer on here thinks he has a second account. After the last few threads like this I think he might be right except it is three accounts.

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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:09   #53
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Pensioners entered a legally binding contract, which is something else entirely. It should have been very obvious that there was no possibility that the government would have the funds to pay the contracts at the time they were signed. That's part of the reason I left government service.

Because the governments are broke, they pursue legal methods (like bankruptcy) which void a contract when one party is incapable of paying.

The pensioners are at the mercy of whatever they get. That's the nature of depending on someone else to fund one's retirement. There simply isn't going to be enough revenue to fund pension systems, no matter how much you want to raise taxes. You can only squeeze the taxpayer so much.
A contract is a contract. If the city/county/state declares bankrupcy the courts handle how it proceeds. But, there is no basis for a govt. simply changing the agreement b/c they don't want taxpayers to get their shorts in a wad over a tax increase to pay their obligation.

Taxpayers will pay up... or they will loose their property. It will be auctioned. The proceeds will go to what debts stand. If the taxpayer doesn't like it, then they need to elect representatives who will not try to keep taxes low by stealing pensions. The magic hand of the free market will handle it all. Right?
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:10   #54
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Originally Posted by CAcop View Post

BTW another GTer on here thinks he has a second account. After the last few threads like this I think he might be right except it is three accounts.

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Where did you get the tinfoil hat?

But since you said it, what three accounts does he use?
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:16   #55
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Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
You need to learn a few things about CF and his echo chamber. He does this to make himself feel better about himself. If he does this in real life people punch him in the nose or worse ignore him.

BTW another GTer on here thinks he has a second account. After the last few threads like this I think he might be right except it is three accounts.

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Punch me in the nose? For pointing out the truth? Are you a union thug?
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:17   #56
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Where did you get the tinfoil hat?

But since you said it, what three accounts does he use?
Yeah I'm dying to hear this.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:20   #57
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
If a person borrows a money to buy a house, mercedes, and a bunch of credit cards, all with legally binding contracts where they PROMISED to pay the money they got back, and then later they cant pay it back, do you support not allowing these people to file bankruptcy and be forced to pay what they promised to pay?
If a man/woman works for a govt.... or a company, regardless, and is promised a pension... and they pay in but the employer doesn't hold up their end, I support destroying that employer financially if that's what it takes to pay the pension owed. Specifically I support the wholesale confiscation, liquidation of any and all assets of any and all who are the employers. And given that they have acted in a fraudulent manner, that includes their personal property, regardless of any supposed insulation by law, even if they are incorporated, etc.

Now... if that fries someones grits about the law, tough. When the law is used to do what is wrong, then no man has any obligation to respect much less obey that law. And that applies no matter how much the law makers and the law buyers complain.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:22   #58
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Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
A contract is a contract. If the city/county/state declares bankrupcy the courts handle how it proceeds. But, there is no basis for a govt. simply changing the agreement b/c they don't want taxpayers to get their shorts in a wad over a tax increase to pay their obligation.

Taxpayers will pay up... or they will loose their property. It will be auctioned. The proceeds will go to what debts stand. If the taxpayer doesn't like it, then they need to elect representatives who will not try to keep taxes low by stealing pensions. The magic hand of the free market will handle it all. Right?
Taxpayers have entered into no contract. I have not given POA to any politician.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:25   #59
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There is no $$$, the Federal Gov't is borrowing 40 cents for every dollar spent. A painful adjustment is in store.
No money? That is a lie. The money is in the pockets and vaults of people. Tax it. Take is and pay the bills. Cut the dod to the level that is actually needed to defend this nation... not for them to be rent-a-boy for every little useless spat throughout the world. The little boys w/ blue hats can take care of that.

Increase the income tax, eliminate the ability of corporations and the wealthy to avoid paying tax, use a tax rate structure such as stood under Reagan's first term... when even the capital gains tax rate under Reagan was 28%... and remove the cap on Social Security earnings so that everyone pays up on everything they make regardless of the source... wages, tips, salaries, and... dividends, interest, etc.

No money? That is just a lie... the sort of big lie that people are supposed to believe... if it is told enough. Problem for the liars is, no one believes them.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:26   #60
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Where did you get the tinfoil hat?

But since you said it, what three accounts does he use?
I am not as convinced as the other GTer.

I am not going to give out the three acounts because if he is using three accounts he can change things up or just drop them.

We shall see.
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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:27   #61
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Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
I am not as convinced as the other GTer.

I am not going to give out the three acounts because if he is using three accounts he can change things up or just drop them.

We shall see.
Lol. So you're full of crap then.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:29   #62
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Punch me in the nose? For pointing out the truth? Are you a union thug?
I would never punch you in the nose. Others might. I think you know that.

As for what I would do with you I would ignore you as much as possible.

If you were a neighbor I would give you a polite wave but I would go out of my way not to talk to you. If you were a coworker I would be sure to not to sit near you. Have you noticed these things in your life?
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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:32   #63
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Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
A contract is a contract. If the city/county/state declares bankrupcy the courts handle how it proceeds. But, there is no basis for a govt. simply changing the agreement b/c they don't want taxpayers to get their shorts in a wad over a tax increase to pay their obligation.

Taxpayers will pay up... or they will loose their property. It will be auctioned. The proceeds will go to what debts stand. If the taxpayer doesn't like it, then they need to elect representatives who will not try to keep taxes low by stealing pensions. The magic hand of the free market will handle it all. Right?
So since elected representatives can change laws and no previous congress can bind a future congress, are you OK when we elect representatives who repeal these pensions?
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Twice a week? 14 times a month?
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2x4=8, not 14.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:33   #64
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Lol. So you're full of crap then.
I am not saying you have three acounts. I suspect you do. Maybe you don't. I don't have enough interest to search through old threads to find out. I will just let it play out.

In the end it makes no difference to me. I don't really care what you think. I just come on here for some fun, to rattle some cages by giving my opinons. Just like you. Except I seem to care less.
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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:33   #65
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I would never punch you in the nose. Others might. I think you know that.

As for what I would do with you I would ignore you as much as possible.

If you were a neighbor I would give you a polite wave but I would go out of my way not to talk to you. If you were a coworker I would be sure to not to sit near you. Have you noticed these things in your life?
Well that's good to know.

I'm still curious though, who are these no punchers and why are they punching me?

Does the truth bother people that much?
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:33   #66
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Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
A contract is a contract. If the city/county/state declares bankrupcy the courts handle how it proceeds. But, there is no basis for a govt. simply changing the agreement b/c they don't want taxpayers to get their shorts in a wad over a tax increase to pay their obligation.

Taxpayers will pay up... or they will loose their property. It will be auctioned. The proceeds will go to what debts stand. If the taxpayer doesn't like it, then they need to elect representatives who will not try to keep taxes low by stealing pensions. The magic hand of the free market will handle it all. Right?
The crux of the issue with pensions is the contract. If the courts allow the government to violate contracts without bankruptcy then they can violate any contract.

Over a decade ago my city had a new department built. If they can tear up a pension contract without bankruptcy then they could not pay the contractor without penalty.
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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT

Last edited by CAcop; 10-06-2012 at 09:36..
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:35   #67
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I am not saying you have three acounts. I suspect you do. Maybe you don't. I don't have enough interest to search through old threads to find out. I will just let it play out.

In the end it makes no difference to me. I don't really care what you think. I just come on here for some fun, to rattle some cages by giving my opinons. Just like you. Except I seem to care less.
Then name them. Go ahead.

If I do have3 accounts and you've uncovered my diabolical plot I can just drop them whether you name them or not. So nothing gained by being coy.

You made the accusation. Back it up.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:37   #68
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Increase the income tax, eliminate the ability of corporations and the wealthy to avoid paying tax, use a tax rate structure such as stood under Reagan's first term... when even the capital gains tax rate under Reagan was 28%... and remove the cap on Social Security earnings so that everyone pays up on everything they make regardless of the source... wages, tips, salaries, and... dividends, interest, etc.

No money? That is just a lie... the sort of big lie that people are supposed to believe... if it is told enough. Problem for the liars is, no one believes them.

And lets make the 46% that pay no federal income tax pay up at a 28% rate also.

No-one one should be exempted from paying taxes.
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Twice a week? 14 times a month?
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:37   #69
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So since elected representatives can change laws and no previous congress can bind a future congress, are you OK when we elect representatives who repeal these pensions?
100% correct.

That's a problem.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:40   #70
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enough interest to search through old threads to find out.
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After the last few threads like this I think he might be right except it is three accounts.
Silly me. "the last few threads" I took to mean something recent.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:47   #71
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The crux of the issue with pensions is the contract. If the courts allow the government to violate contracts without bankruptcy then they can violate any contract.
Contracts are broken and modified all the time without bankruptcy.

Let me give you common examples. Repossession of cars. Foreclosure on property. Evictions due to non-payment of rent. Airline tickets (i.e. you had a contract to get you from point a to point b in a certain class of service on a certain day at a certain time..yet that contract is often broken).

Many many contracts are broken or modified without bankruptcy. In fact, most times parties prefer this because there are more losers in bankruptcy.

I have yet to see a case where someone who didnt enter into the contract has to pay bills for the contract in bankruptcy.

In general if state X doesn't have the money to pay their pension obligations ONLY state X should be required to make it right. There was no representation with the contract from the other 49 states. If the other 49 states were not involved in making the contract, no way on gods green earth should the be liable for payment.

This is like me making a deal on a shiny nee ferrari and then not being able to pay for it. The deal was bewteen the ferrari dealer, the bank, and myself. But, when when I file bankruptcy, the bank wants their money so they get the court to say CACop and BruceV are responsible for the money owed on the ferrari but I get to keep the ferrari.
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Twice a week? 14 times a month?
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2x4=8, not 14.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:49   #72
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Yet you have left out the part that the market is not returning 7% and there have been years of loses.
I have a deferred compensation account that has all the money in a fixed account (perfect for us retired folks) that has never paid below 3.5% annual interest. That's VERY good in today's economy.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:50   #73
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Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
If a man/woman works for a govt.... or a company, regardless, and is promised a pension... and they pay in but the employer doesn't hold up their end, I support destroying that employer financially if that's what it takes to pay the pension owed. Specifically I support the wholesale confiscation, liquidation of any and all assets of any and all who are the employers. And given that they have acted in a fraudulent manner, that includes their personal property, regardless of any supposed insulation by law, even if they are incorporated, etc.

Now... if that fries someones grits about the law, tough. When the law is used to do what is wrong, then no man has any obligation to respect much less obey that law. And that applies no matter how much the law makers and the law buyers complain.
You a 200% certified nut ball that should have participated in the Bolshevik Revolution, Komrad.

You are even smart enough to figure out then EVERYONE in the company would be liable. Anyone who is a "supervisor" or a "lead" are "employers".

But look at the bright side, you make Eurodriver look intelligent.
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Twice a week? 14 times a month?
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2x4=8, not 14.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:55   #74
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Pensioners should be paid exactly what they are due. If a state has underfunded the pension, the state should be held liable for the full amount. Let the taxpayers of that state pay up. And... let the burden of paying be applied across the board to all persons... i.e., real people and even the faux corporate persons.
I suppose this also applies to SS and Medicare, whose funds have also been raided for welfare spending for decades? See why budget solutions become so difficult to enact? This fiscal irresponsibility is unfair but if every program is kept in place with no reforms, then the resulting massive tax increases lower your pay during the years that you're raising kids and paying off a mortgage, so that's not exactly desirable either.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:01   #75
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100% correct.

That's a problem.
If those elected are owned/operated by corporations... well, your a smart boy. You know the answer.

Simply put... when the law is just a cloak for wrong, ignore it and do what is right. And if that chaffs the rear of tax payers who have to pay up, tough. They have no one to blame but themselves.
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