[OctoberRust]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

But of course...

Fixed it for ya!

Imaginary friend? I never told YOU about any imaginary friend. Oh wait, just one more failed attempt from you to create humor at my expense. Keep your day job, you're not quite a comedienne yet.

That's the spirit! Now you're finally getting used to my posts, and not taking them too seriously when I poke fun at you.

And you changed it to 9/11 conspiracy theories? don't you support the JFK conspiracy theory too? Correct me if I'm wrong though, I'm asking, not saying you do.

[Louisville Glocker]

I'm a bigger fan of gov't than most people here (hey- look at my icon, federal, baby), but there is no way our gov't could have pulled off a hidden conspiracy of this magnitude. Even with Dick Cheney at the helm, and GW Bush reading stories to children far away in Florida, it would have been too big an operation to remain completely hidden.

There are still many unanswered questions, and I think many things were done very badly in the aftermath, but that is more a matter of incompetence than anything diabolical.

In short, hey, we got the guy who did it. Bin Laden. Obama deserves credit where credit is due. The SEALS deserve credit where credit is due. Time to move on. But I agree, the "War on Terror" should not justify continued massive overseas operations. The primary resources need to be intelligence and special ops, not shoes on the ground.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

Hey, a 757 or 767 cannot fly at 600mph so close to the ground without coming apart, but engineers ALWAYS over build the applications by at least a factor of 1.5 times what is going to be required, and more typically they design and build over by a factor of 3 times what is going to be required.

Bull. You're no engineer if you actually believe that.

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

With regards to the 1 & 2 WTC, the outside columns, from bottom to top, were able to hold up to 5 times the weight above them. The inside, or core columns, were able to hold 3 times the weight above them. Why? They over built for the applications.

Cite a reliable source for that.

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

Now, you may be a pilot, but you are definitely not a an engineer.

Your credibility takes another shot. You obviously neither read nor comprehend what I and others have written. I never said I was a pilot. You ASSume facts that are not in evidence. But you do that a lot.

[dango]

Fact you all say ! Give the hard facts that (PROVE) it couldn't
have been an in-side job and there are so many hidden facts,
it's like trying to grasp God himself.

You also look in the wrong to lay the blame! You think Obama
or Romney wouldn't be puppets to the same elitists? There caught up in the prison we are.

Why you say? Do you love or care about anything and when you do it is only used as a chink in the armor to be exploited.

These are only men and I honestly believe men of good intent.
When they put the power and direct it at you and yours ,what will you do President , only a man .

These elitists are not like men of honor, pure indifference where no price is to great and they will have whatever they choose!

[Ragnar]

Now I know that you're completely clueless.

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

There is no such caveat to sentence #3 in the report. Unless they pulled a switch-a-roo after all the FOIA requests. Hmmmm... if they did, that's telling the truth to the American People huh?

Anyway, NIST cannot get away with such a change, IF you are to be believed in the first place, as numerous sites have already captured the page before the change,.

Here's just one I had bookmarked.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/WTC.html

ETA: None of the pages I have show anything like you are asserting. Guess you are wrong again.

For instance, below is from NIST NCSTAR 1-2, WTC Investigation, Page 302, paragraph number 3; additionally, I've included the ending and beginning excerpts, of paragraphs 2 and 4 respectively. No where in it does it have the sentence you claim to have found.


"[2.] ... extremely high velocity gusts.

3. The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707 - DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.

4. Because of its..."

^ Emphasis mine.

Page 302 of the document YOU linked to at

http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=101012

does not say that. The above that you have quoted is from page 305.

You've been using a DRAFT document on a whackjob site as evidence. Amateur mistake.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/WTC.html

is using a DRAFT document and you fell for it.

You claim to be a writer, a journalist, and you can't even perform basic research and fact-checking of your work.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

Well, let's see...

Planes hit two, maybe three buildings.

Three buildings were imploded.

Almost 2900 people were murdered on 09-11-2001, and my best guesstimate is that nearly 290,000 more murders have occurred since 09-11.

I know I only hit the highlights... anything specific you want to mention?

Then show the evidence. Where is the explosive residue, the miles of det cord, the teams who prepped the building for weeks prior who would have had to rip out walls and weaken structural supports with heavy equipment? Show me fragments of detonators and wiring.

You can't and you won't, because you have nothing except some videos from whackjobs and no clue on your own.

[dango]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Then show the evidence. Where is the explosive residue, the miles of det cord, the teams who prepped the building for weeks prior who would have had to rip out walls and weaken structural supports with heavy equipment? Show me fragments of detonators and wiring.

You can't and you won't, because you have nothing except some videos from whackjobs and no clue on your own.

I ask the same thing. Prove to me that it could not happen,where does your proof lie? Back up your blind faith with some facts. This whole thing has been a one sided coin so far ,show me other wise !Facts,proof,prove me wrong !

[mike g35]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

More insults.

You're still being the fish.
9-11 was a conspiracy perpetrated by JFK, who was never assassinated. He went to the moon, not Neil Armstrong, bought explosives from ManBearPig on the moon, then set the explosives up in the world trade centers as he rode on top of the jets that hit the buildings.
Phew!!! Aren't ya glad I cleared all that up for ya PW? LOL

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[Annoyedgrunt]

Guys, haven't you figured it out yet? PW is just messing with you. He argues because he likes to. Every time a 9/11 thread comes up with him in it, you are all been essentially trolled.

There was this kid I knew back in middle school who would have the rest of the class tied up in knots because he would argue that the earth rotates around the moon. He was very fond of circular argument, fancy SAT-words (sound familiar?) and held fast to it being a conspiracy that NASA and the gov't were in on. I was a friend of sorts of his, and I knew that he knew that he was FOS, but it was funny as hell to watch all the hair-pulling and foot-stomping from all the other kids as they tried to get past his bull****. Just like on here.

As a matter of fact, PW, is your name Everett? How's it going, man? Haven't seen you since 8th grade!

[mike g35]

PW, you seem to ask for it man. Is getting called names and being made fun of something you enjoy? I mean its no problem, the folks here on GT will be happy to oblige. But have you considered taking another approach? Maybe stop theorizing and start reading factual reports? I understand your distrust of the govt even though I don't agree, I like your passion for what you believe, and I support you in your quest for the truth, but dude......haven't you had enough yet? I mean there's gotta be something else to look into at this point. Maybe start thinking from a non-conspiracy standpoint. Maybe that'll help? I don't know, all I know is what's done is done, those that lost family in the trade center, pentagon, flight 93, and the war are tired of hearing nutty folks talk about who did it and how wrong we were and how the war isn't right etc etc etc. Give it, and them, a rest. Allow the memories of those lost on 9-11 to go on with honor and without question. If you can't be a believer, at least be an American. Let those we lost rest in peace and let it go already.
Thanks, carry on.




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[dango]

I don,t agree. Myself,I don't trust anybody and just because
someone says it is so does not make it so.

I think PW is passionate about this and no troll at all.I research
until I am convinced and too many things wrong is what I find.

What makes you so sure it could not be an inside job ?
I'm not conviced and I ain't no troll.If you have proof,show me,
make me believe cause I'm loosing faith fast!

[Peace Warrior]

Originally Posted by MulletLoad

Peace Warrior,

it's time for another "retard" moment courtesy of me, the one who beat you down during the previous 9/11 circle jerk. ...

Your memory is as self-aggrandizing as is your misplaced ego, which both for you are flawed and fading fast. (No problem dude, my memory ain't what it used to be either. So I understand.)

BTW- Did you ever go and have your butt handed to you on the Pilots for 911 truth site? I never heard back from Rob,the sites admin, so I guess you knew better than talk your **** around other aviation professionals whom, unlike you, have done their due diligence to be finders of fact instead of a retard with an internet connection.

Rob still thinks your a fake, internet, wanna be microsoft sim playing retard. (NOTE: I didn't say that, I am just relaying the gist of his sentiments.) If you contact him, he will keep your name and conversation private if you ask him too, besides, according to him, your name should already published and publicly available through the FAA's website.

Anyway, he will NOT divulge anything about you if you ask him not to. I'll make a deal with him so that he will send you FREE all the stuff you'll need to see the light if you really are a pilot as you claim.

Heck, wait, with your failing memory, maybe you just forgot about all this from the last time huh?

Originally Posted by MulletLoad

... Since a B757 will "come apart" at 600 mph, wouldn't that explain the parts of the United 93 found a distance from the crash site? ...

Wow, you're saying a 757 will reach 600 mph at less than 1000 feet! Oh well, you claim to be the professional pilot that flies them all day, but I'll be sure to find out the flight characteristics to see if that is true.

You're the one who claimed/is claiming that UA93 had/has a crash site. I never said that last we spoke before the thread was closed.

Originally Posted by MulletLoad

... You remember don't you, ...

Hilariously funny coming from you... X6 (I spilled my coffee from laughing so hard. Serious!)

Originally Posted by MulletLoad

... the Illumanati shot it down was basically your stance from the earlier threads, and parts of the aircraft were found away from the PA crash site as a result? ...

UA93 and the illuminatti? The UA93 plane shot down? UA93's parts? Wow man, I've never took that stance the last we spoke. I know, let me ask ya this first, did you stop taking your meds recently?

Oh wait, never mind, we will just stack it up to another bout of failed and failing memory from you," or maybe your selective memory and self-aggrandizing ego. (Internet pilots... what are ya gonna do?)

Originally Posted by MulletLoad

... Funny thing is that your so delusional, you don't realize your circular logic just ends up screwing yourself. ...

Nice try sir.

Originally Posted by MulletLoad

... Thanks for playing, you're losing 62-0

You're starting to quote ridiculous scores there pal. (The worst you and have ever done is tie, and I'm being nice to defer to say that about it.)

Since you've opened the door, allow me to quote a more realistic score, related to your internet proclamations of being a pilot and the guesstimated number of pilots who actually flew the planes involved with the 09-11 event.

Them- 3 pilots who put their names to the claimsAND WHO HAVE ACTUAL COMMAND TIME IN THE AIRCRAFT USED ON 09-11-2001.

You-1 without his name to anything AND SO FAR, ONLY AN INTERNET ASSERTION HE IS A PILOT. (Again, I don't know either way about you, but your mistakes, ludicrous assumptions, answers and fantastically convoluted logic made other pilots think maybe you're not who you say.)

Hmmmm.... At least 3 to 1. Looks like you're losing pal.

Additionally, as professional pilots, they have done their due diligence as far as putting their names to the claims, investigating, and ferreting out facts that blow the official government cover up story out of the water.

All the while, for the last 11 plus years, as far as I know, you simply sat on your fat *** at a keyboard and whined to others about what you THINK happened with the planes and the buildings at Ground Zero.

Here's proof that 7WTC was imploded, I guess you'll just eat a sammich, sip a beer, and deny this video's validity too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZmS...eature=related

[Peace Warrior]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Bull. You're no engineer if you actually believe that. ...

I'm not a building engineer, but I worked with hand in hand with them for roughly 12 years out of a 22 year career in structural concrete.

I NEVER heard of anyone of them NOT over designing/building by a factor of at least 1.5, and most of them will tell you they feel better signing off after designing the over build by factor of 3 or more.

I am in NO WAY embellishing these facts. My life, and the lives of every other worker and every other person to use the structure after we were finished was and is always in their hands.

Case in point: We needed to use two cranes to make a lift. One we had to place on a bridge. Our company's engineers said it would be okay, but FlaDOT actually called in the original engineer who designed the bridge in order to get his views/approval. I was at the meeting when he demonstrated to FlaDOT that his design was actually three times stronger than it was "supposed to be." He approved our using the second crane from the bridge span due to the overbuild he designed into it.

But since you're here, what say you about this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZmS...eature=related

[noway]

PW what's your thought on the pentatgon plane that hit the side of the Pentagon at suspected 500+ mph and only 10-20ft off the deck by a student pilot that had documented fly time but was rated by his instructors as even bad or worst that they ever seen.

So a guy with no flying experience within a jumbo 757 jet and could barely fly a Cessna, now could fly a 757 in a airspace he's not familar with, & at speeds that even most commerical pliots that you should speak to would say is next to impossible unless your an expert or had numerous years ( which the Pentagon Pilot did not ).

[Peace Warrior]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Now I know that you're completely clueless.

Page 302 of the document YOU linked to at

http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=101012

does not say that. The above that you have quoted is from page 305.

You've been using a DRAFT document on a whackjob site as evidence. Amateur mistake.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/WTC.html

is using a DRAFT document and you fell for it. ...

Pretty slick...

Release a public draft, gather and collect the information, as per the peer review from other professionals and per the general critique by the public at large, and then finally amend the report so as to nullify NIST's own glaring mistakes concerning facts and impossibilities in the public draft. (This stratagem would revolutionize internet threads. )

Hey bud, there are some professional people still working at NIST who hang there heads in shame whenever meeting up other professionals who have critiqued and peer reviewed their work concerning 09-11-2001. The NIST people know they've lied, and they feel the shame knowing others know they lied.

Historical revisionism is not new.

[Peace Warrior]

Originally Posted by noway

PW what's your thought on the Pentagon plane that hit the side of the Pentagon at suspected 500+ mph and only 10-20ft off the deck by a student pilot that had documented fly time but was rated by his instructors as even bad or worst that they ever seen.

So a guy with no flying experience within a jumbo 757 jet and could barely fly a Cessna, now could fly a 757 in a airspace he's not familiar with, & at speeds that even most commercial pilots that you should speak to would say is next to impossible unless your an expert or had numerous years ( which the Pentagon Pilot did not ).

Honestly, I do not even know if a plane ever hit the Pentagon, but one thing is for sure, it was NOT AA77 as stated by the government's cover up story.

So many video cameras and yet nothing of substance has been released concerning the Pentagon event. IIRC, over 22 cameras should have been recording the area around and at the impact sight, and yet the gubmint only releases five cherry picked stills made from a video.

Some people have claimed the dates on the stills, when first released, were 09-12-2001, but I've never been able to verify that one.

Please see: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pressrelease

[Peace Warrior]

Originally Posted by Louisville Glocker

I'm a bigger fan of gov't than most people here (hey- look at my icon, federal, baby), but there is no way our gov't could have pulled off a hidden conspiracy of this magnitude. ...

They didn't pull it off and keep it secret.

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZmS...eature=related


Oops, looks like someone who knew has video too.

[Peace Warrior]

Originally Posted by OctoberRust

That's the spirit! Now you're finally getting used to my posts, and not taking them too seriously when I poke fun at you.

And you changed it to 9/11 conspiracy theories? don't you support the JFK conspiracy theory too? Correct me if I'm wrong though, I'm asking, not saying you do.

I was alive in the 70's when the SECOND official .gub commission found that there were [at least] four shots the day JFK was murdered. They officially ruled it a conspiracy.

I was also alive when the photos and film were released in their entirety for the first time and they show conclusively that a shot went THROUGH the limo's windshield as well as another shot hitting the windshield's frame. One of these rounds may have caused injury to JFK, but not both.

Over a three dozen people, on or shortly after November 22, 1963, reported that they heard at least 4 to 6 shots the day JFK was murdered.

I also know that some of the best marksman in the world have not been able to duplicate the three shots purported to have occurred at Daley Plaza by the original warren commission.

Simply put, I do not just "not believe the story," but rather I KNOW JFK was not shot by oswald or by just one person for that matter. Period. With all the 'irrisputable' evidence available today, only a fool would insist otherwise.

[Peace Warrior]

Originally Posted by bobtheelf

Indeed. You still haven't answered whether you saw 1&2 collapse from the bottom up, as in implosions. If you did see that, it would explain a lot. If you didn't see that, it becomes even more inexplicable that you would believe it was an implosion simply because it looked like an implosion, when it looked nothing like an implosion.

They were imploded from the top down. If you insist on arguing semantics, such as to say it is not an implosion if it doesn't occur from the bottom up, you win this one as I wouldn't know what else to refer to such an implosion as.

[Peace Warrior]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

... Your credibility takes another shot. You obviously neither read nor comprehend what I and others have written. I never said I was a pilot. You ASSume facts that are not in evidence. But you do that a lot.

The following is what YOUposted:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

... I have 2,000 hours on military 707's. For takeoff, rotation at about 140-142 kts, gear up around 170. For landing (flaps down) approach was a little over 150.

So, no, the 707 was not planned for 600 mph.

For the record, and more for my curiosity, if you're not a pilot, WHY THE **** DO YOU KEEP AN OFFICIAL LOG WHEN YOUR SIMPLY THE PASSENGER ON A PLANE?!? You said, " I have 2,000 hours on military 707's. " Okay, that threw me, I admit it. You're hilarious!

Forgive me for "assuming facts not in evidence."

So in reality, you're just gear in the rear as far as actual pilots are concerned and also one who uses stats from published flight characteristics or Microsoft flight sims to be a know it all on the internet.

Got it!

[dango]

I'm just chillen waiting for some or any factoids,I really need my faith restorethed. Fix for I am at a loss,patriot,all dressed up and
nowhere to go !

[Peace Warrior]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

... You claim to be a writer, a journalist, and you can't even perform basic research and fact-checking of your work.

You're wrong again.

I am a writer. Admittedly unpublished under my own name at the present time, well, with the exception of technical manuals and or handbooks.

I've have never said I am a journalist. It is something I want to do, and hopefully I will be able to do at least part time someday.

[vikingsoftpaw]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

What bothers me is that there are people out there who can't think critically enough to recognize the BS in the conspirowhacko sites.

I used to work for a dude that was a heavy duty conspiracy theorist. They think quit highly of themselves because of their outside-of-the box thinking. He'd spend a couple of hours a day disseminating the 'truth' on the interwebs.


Everybody needs a hobby.

[CigarandScotch]

Can someone please instruct me on how to put another member on "ignore"? I have looked into it before and I can't seem to figure that out on my own. PM's are welcome.


Reading this thread reminded me of a couple that I need to do that with (and gave me a couple more to put on the list)...

[Peace Warrior]

Originally Posted by mike g35

PW, you seem to ask for it man. Is getting called names and being made fun of something you enjoy? I mean its no problem, the folks here on GT will be happy to oblige. But have you considered taking another approach? Maybe stop theorizing and start reading factual reports? I understand your distrust of the govt even though I don't agree, I like your passion for what you believe, and I support you in your quest for the truth, but dude......haven't you had enough yet? I mean there's gotta be something else to look into at this point. Maybe start thinking from a non-conspiracy standpoint. Maybe that'll help? I don't know, all I know is what's done is done, those that lost family in the trade center, pentagon, flight 93, and the war are tired of hearing nutty folks talk about who did it and how wrong we were and how the war isn't right etc etc etc. Give it, and them, a rest. Allow the memories of those lost on 9-11 to go on with honor and without question. If you can't be a believer, at least be an American. Let those we lost rest in peace and let it go already.
Thanks, carry on.




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Mike,

With all due respect, you're a johnny-come-lately to this whole subject with regards to my personal involvement. Suffice to say, I used to be on the other side of the 09-11 issue, but now I know the truth.

I'm not in denial anymore. Period.