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Old 10-05-2012, 21:07   #101
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Originally Posted by syntaxerrorsix View Post
We'll see come the election when you get exactly 0% of the Libertarian vote for your Dbag candidate.

In the grand scheme of things the R's are no different than the D's other than the flavor of manure they spread.
Typical libertarian guy:

The Okie Corral
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Old 10-05-2012, 21:56   #102
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Color me the problem then.

I won't participate in the GOP turd polishing.
Maybe if you, and a few million like-minded independents would PARTICIPATE in the Republican Party, we'd have some better choices than "turds".

The whole "vote independent" thing is little more than the electoral equivalent of taking your baseball and going home in the 5th inning because you don't like some of your team-mates.

You won't win any games that way and you lose all hope of changing the existing team for the better.
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Old 10-05-2012, 22:07   #103
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Maybe if you, and a few million like-minded independents would PARTICIPATE in the Republican Party, we'd have some better choices than "turds".

The whole "vote independent" thing is little more than the electoral equivalent of taking your baseball and going home in the 5th inning because you don't like some of your team-mates.

You won't win any games that way and you lose all hope of changing the existing team for the better.
On that same note, maybe if you, and a few million others, would quit voting for whatever turd the GOP throws up, we'd have some better choices than "turds".

That works both ways. The GOP knows they can count on your vote because Romney isn't Obama.
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Old 10-05-2012, 22:18   #104
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Third parties don't win major elections. If they do win, they will caucus with one of the two parties, just like Congressman Leiberman and Sanders.

A third party President will caucus with one of the two in order to get stuff done. If a Libertiarian President gets elected he/she will more than likely side with the GOP. So, now what?
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Old 10-05-2012, 22:22   #105
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On that same note, maybe if you, and a few million others, would quit voting for whatever turd the GOP throws up, we'd have some better choices than "turds".

That works both ways. The GOP knows they can count on your vote because Romney isn't Obama.
But the process of "throwing up" a candidate is purely internal to the GOP. If you and other independents don't participate, vote and make your voices known, you can't change things internally.

Sure, by taking your votes somewhere else, you might "teach the GOP a lesson" by blowing a general election for them, but that's kind of like "teaching your baseball team a lesson" by taking the ball, going home and blowing the big game.

Wouldn't it be better to work from within and try to sway the internal processes without blowing the World Series?

After all, democracy is, at its heart, a process of compromise and give-and-take. There will never be a "perfect" candidate that everyone agrees on, but fracture and factionism doesn't ever help the issue - it only assures that all factions involved lose the election.
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Old 10-05-2012, 22:40   #106
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But the process of "throwing up" a candidate is purely internal to the GOP. If you and other independents don't participate, vote and make your voices known, you can't change things internally.

Sure, by taking your votes somewhere else, you might "teach the GOP a lesson" by blowing a general election for them, but that's kind of like "teaching your baseball team a lesson" by taking the ball, going home and blowing the big game.

Wouldn't it be better to work from within and try to sway the internal processes without blowing the World Series?

After all, democracy is, at its heart, a process of compromise and give-and-take. There will never be a "perfect" candidate that everyone agrees on, but fracture and factionism doesn't ever help the issue - it only assures that all factions involved lose the election.
My vote doesn't go to the Democratic party, not because its the democratic party, but because its candidates do not represent my interests. Why should the Republican party be any different?
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Old 10-05-2012, 22:50   #107
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My vote doesn't go to the Democratic party, not because its the democratic party, but because its candidates do not represent my interests. Why should the Republican party be any different?
Then ask yourself this. Which party would I have the better chance at influencing? Which is closer, on a whole, to my views?

If the answer to that is the Democrats, then jump into the fray and start changing minds. If it's the Republicans, do the same with the GOP.
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Old 10-05-2012, 22:53   #108
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Then ask yourself this. Which party would I have the better chance at influencing? Which is closer, on a whole, to my views?

If the answer to that is the Democrats, then jump into the fray and start changing minds. If it's the Republicans, do the same with the GOP.
What I see is a party that is sliding further and further away from my views. Why is that?
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Old 10-05-2012, 22:57   #109
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What I see is a party that is sliding further and further away from my views. Why is that?
Lack of constructive, internal input and participation from people like you?
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Old 10-05-2012, 23:14   #110
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Lack of constructive, internal input and participation from people like you?
When they become large enough, all institutions/organizations become corrupt and self-serving of the interests of its leadership. Whether it be the Vatican, Congress, charity or a political party.

The Republican Party leadership doesn't care about you, your needs or the country for that matter. The Republican party leadership cares about the Republican party leadership.

Congress doesn't care about you or the country. Congress cares about congressmen. If you run for Congress with the intent of changing things, you will not get elected. The parties will see to it. If, by some stroke of luck, you strike upon the right combination of circumstances to become elected anyway, you will quickly get swallowed up by the party or be relegated to ineffective obscurity.

Things will not change until enough people finally decide to quit playing along. Voting for the lesser of two evils only perpetuates it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 23:18   #111
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Lack of constructive, internal input and participation from people like you?
No. Overwhelming influence from outside sources...just as with any party. HH
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Old 10-05-2012, 23:20   #112
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The GOP is not failing because of who is leaving, they're failing because of who is taking over. HH
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Old 10-05-2012, 23:20   #113
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Originally Posted by tsmo1066 View Post
Lack of constructive, internal input and participation from people like you?
I think the real answer is that most republicans don't share his views, so his views don't actually matter.
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Old 10-05-2012, 23:24   #114
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When they become large enough, all institutions/organizations become corrupt and self-serving of the interests of its leadership. Whether it be the Vatican, Congress, charity or a political party.

The Republican Party leadership doesn't care about you, your needs or the country for that matter. The Republican party leadership cares about the Republican party leadership.

Congress doesn't care about you or the country. Congress cares about congressmen. If you run for Congress with the intent of changing things, you will not get elected. The parties will see to it. If, by some stroke of luck, you strike upon the right combination of circumstances to become elected anyway, you will quickly get swallowed up by the party or be relegated to ineffective obscurity.

Things will not change until enough people finally decide to quit playing along. Voting for the lesser of two evils only perpetuates it.
You consider tax evaders patriots, but you admit that you are too cowardly to take a stand. You keep beating that drum though.

Things will not change until enough people finally decide to quit playing along. Paying taxes to fund a corrupt .gov only perpetuates it.

Same thing isn't it?
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Old 10-05-2012, 23:29   #115
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I hope this is a "reset",I want Jindal/West and a few others ta get more on the job training.We have some real strong conservatives waiting in the wings.'08.
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Old 10-05-2012, 23:30   #116
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Things will not change until enough people finally decide to quit playing along. Paying taxes to fund a corrupt .gov only perpetuates it.
And until that time, anybody who doesn't play along may end up in prison.
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Old 10-05-2012, 23:36   #117
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When they become large enough, all institutions/organizations become corrupt and self-serving of the interests of its leadership. Whether it be the Vatican, Congress, charity or a political party.

The Republican Party leadership doesn't care about you, your needs or the country for that matter. The Republican party leadership cares about the Republican party leadership.

Congress doesn't care about you or the country. Congress cares about congressmen. If you run for Congress with the intent of changing things, you will not get elected. The parties will see to it. If, by some stroke of luck, you strike upon the right combination of circumstances to become elected anyway, you will quickly get swallowed up by the party or be relegated to ineffective obscurity.

Things will not change until enough people finally decide to quit playing along. Voting for the lesser of two evils only perpetuates it.
I don't share your complete pessimism on the GOP's motives and alleged utter lack of concern, and I don't see how handing elections to the Democrats party, which is AT LEAST as bad as an organization, is somehow the solution.

I'm out of step with many planks in the GOP platform myself, but I've managed to make some waves, at least on a local level, through participation and involvement.

That being said, I can understand your frustration and I guess we just have to agree to disagree on it.

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Old 10-05-2012, 23:45   #118
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the answer is that after a crushing Romney defeat, against the worst president in US history they need to scrap the entire thing and start going what the people want. Have a conservative party instead of the liberal republicans.
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Old 10-06-2012, 00:06   #119
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Bad news is there is no gun forum on the Internet where holier than thou Paulistinians are not spamming and hijacking almost any thread.

Good news is they only represent .5% of the electorate so as far as I am concerned they can stay home election day and spew their bile against the "neocons" and "Joos" from their parents home basement.

They just don't matter. In the grand scheme of things they're just a slight nuisance. I came to the conclusion it's better to ignore them and pretend they just don't exist.

I want know how in the hell the Republican party convinced you (and the rest of the lemmings here) that they give even a rat's ass about personal freedoms and upholding the constitution.

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Old 10-06-2012, 00:55   #120
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I want know how in the hell the Republican party convinced you (and the rest of the lemmings here) that they give even a rat's ass about personal freedoms and upholding the constitution.
Dude, how stupid are you??
Instituting an assault weapons ban and imposing morality laws IS upholding the constitution. Because the constitution.....says...

Look, you vote for republicans or you're a COMMIE!
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:15   #121
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Dude, how stupid are you??
Instituting an assault weapons ban and imposing morality laws IS upholding the constitution. Because the constitution.....says...

Look, you vote for republicans or you're a COMMIE!


Sad, but true.
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:58   #122
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This is what I think will happen:

1) Obama will get a second term. I don't think there will be any drastic changes. The economy will continue to improve slowly and the debt will continue to grow, possibly slower than it is at the moment.

2) Hillary Clinton will run for the Democratic nomination in 2016 with an endorsement from Obama (do you really think Bill Clinton is doing so much for the Obama campaign without a promise of something in return?)

3) The GOP will either:

a) Continue the path it has been on for the past 4 years and lose to Hillary or another Democrat in 2016.
b) Get rid of the religious zealots who would rather see the entire country collapse than allow two gay people to get married. Pick a relatively moderate candidate with charisma, conservative fiscal beliefs, modern and progressive social beliefs and stand a decent chance of a GOP candidate in the white house in 2016 who can rein in some of the spending and start working on reducing the debt slowly.


Whoever wins in November, I think the country will be in a better overall position in 4 years than it is today. I cringe when I see "patriots" who despise Obama so much that they relish in every bit of bad news and negative forecasts about the USA - just so they can blame Obama. People (from both sides) need to get over their political affiliations and take a look at what really matters.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:14   #123
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You consider tax evaders patriots, but you admit that you are too cowardly to take a stand. You keep beating that drum though.

Things will not change until enough people finally decide to quit playing along. Paying taxes to fund a corrupt .gov only perpetuates it.

Same thing isn't it?
Good insight. I agree.

The difference being I have a family to raise today and I can't do it from prison.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:21   #124
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Onebigelf, I do not believe we do. Nobody asked me squat. I was given a limited choice on a piece of paper come primary time and it was a cast of fools, no of whom should lead our country.
I repeat:
", get involved and encourage better candidate to run Republican,"

The party does not pick who runs or who wins. ANY candidate that registers as a Republican can run for the nomination. The registered Republicans vote for their choice.
Except for the caucus states and some states that allow independents to declare at the polling place- which I hate.

John
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:31   #125
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I repeat:
", get involved and encourage better candidate to run Republican,"

The party does not pick who runs or who wins. ANY candidate that registers as a Republican can run for the nomination. The registered Republicans vote for their choice.
Except for the caucus states and some states that allow independents to declare at the polling place- which I hate.

John
Bull. Do you really think for a moment that Romney wasn't the party leadership's choice? That McCain wasn't last go round?

The party recruits candidates at lower tier elections, chooses who gets the party support, culls the "talent" at the lower levels like state houses.

At higher elections it does the same, uses its influence and money to lend support and sway opinions.
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