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Old 10-02-2012, 20:27   #41
BrassKnuckle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randr1979 View Post
...The poor wanted to volunteer just as much I suppose but having no means to help meant they just ended up needing rescue.
Just like when they didn't have boats during the floods, the poor will also need rescuing from assailants if they are deprived of efficient means of defending themselves.

I hope you and your friends are up to that task again because, as the saying goes: "To whom much is given, much is expected."
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Old 10-02-2012, 20:28   #42
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great

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Originally Posted by boomhower View Post
I couldn't disagree more. Just because someone is disadvantaged financially and are struggling to support there family doesn't mean they don't deserve the right to defend themselves and their families. Pretty much anyone can find the money for a $150 highpoint. While not pretty, they are reliable these days.
Hi-Points are great toolbox guns, simple and it just keeps working. i can't wait for it to get to our shores. send some over will ya?

We are basically in agreement, my stand is pretty much the same. I believe anyone of decent ability who is not saddled with vices (aside from an addiction to cordite) and keeps the number of mouths he has to feed manageable can come up with P17,000 (US$404*) well within two years.

Start working and saving at 19 and you will have enough for a gun by the time you are legal to own one.

Anybody who wants to but can not scrounge up that amount probably needs to rethink their way of life and reevaluate their priorities.

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* $404 is indeed significantly more than $150 but maybe it's just because our economy is in better shape now and people here can generally afford to pay higher prices for things like guns and ammo.
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Old 10-02-2012, 20:53   #43
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sectors

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Originally Posted by BrassKnuckle View Post
Just like when they didn't have boats during the floods, the poor will also need rescuing from assailants if they are deprived of efficient means of defending themselves.
I'm not sure which sector of the poor you are referring to. If it's the illegal settlers then I really can not think of anybody who would want to attack them, especially during a calamity (except perhaps a fellow illegal settler who has gone insane). What would one gain by attacking them?

Besides, homeless people are barred from owning firearms, you can not put NPA in the address field of the license application form and expect it to be approved.

If it's the struggling but employed sector we'll we go back to my lesson in arithmetic. Working a minimum wage job? Save 10% for your defense fund, don't smoke or drink alcohol, don't have too many kids or delay having one and by the time you get your 13th month pay you're squared away.

Quote:
I hope you and your friends are up to that task again because, as the saying goes: "To whom much is given, much is expected."
My friends are up to it, I am not. I haven't bought a zodiac yet. I compensate by living on higher ground. My disaster management capabilities are limited to operating battery operated reverse osmosis water systems so my people can have clean water to drink.
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Old 10-02-2012, 21:21   #44
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The high cost for guns and ammo means there will always be an available supply for wealthy criminals.
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Old 10-02-2012, 22:42   #45
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Originally Posted by bikethief View Post
This thread was based on the opinion of one man.

What's with the "you people" statement? Are you trying to incite a racial argument? Here's rules 4 and 5 of the GT Terms of Service:

4. Posts with racist or extremist comments or content are not allowed. That includes links to sites with such
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5. Absolutely NO racial, religious, or sexual bigotry is allowed at any time. Don't lower yourself into dragging
someones ethnicity or sexual orientation into an argument or disagreement.

Sorry I had to bring the rules up. I could just kick your ass but you can't do that over the internet.
if we want to lower ourselves to his level -

Yup, we got outgunned and conquered...... by superpowers
At least we didnt get our butt kicked and ran out of indochina by farmers
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Old 10-04-2012, 17:26   #46
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This thread was based on the opinion of one man.

What's with the "you people" statement? Are you trying to incite a racial argument? Here's rules 4 and 5 of the GT Terms of Service:

4. Posts with racist or extremist comments or content are not allowed. That includes links to sites with such
content.

5. Absolutely NO racial, religious, or sexual bigotry is allowed at any time. Don't lower yourself into dragging
someones ethnicity or sexual orientation into an argument or disagreement.

Sorry I had to bring the rules up. I could just kick your ass but you can't do that over the internet.
Brother, this retired old white guy would be glad to help fund your trip to America (as long as I got good tickets to the ass kickings)

Some folks go through life with blinders on to the rest of the world. My only blinders are color filters. I treat a man as such, and only ask the same in return.

Many years ago, my father left a piece of his soul in your country. Ang puting tao sabi, "Diyos sa iyo"
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Old 10-04-2012, 19:41   #47
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Hahahaha! Thanks for the offer, sir. I visit your side of the world quite often and would be glad to share a drink or two on my next trip. Preferably somewhere with a cage, ring, or a big parking lot in the back so we can invite our undereducated friend.

Glad to hear your dad had good memories of the Philippines. Give us a heads up if you plan to visit.

"God be with you too.", says the brown man with the big stick.
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:12   #48
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Hahahaha! Thanks for the offer, sir. I visit your side of the world quite often and would be glad to share a drink or two on my next trip. Preferably somewhere with a cage, ring, or a big parking lot in the back so we can invite our undereducated friend.

Glad to hear your dad had good memories of the Philippines. Give us a heads up if you plan to visit.

"God be with you too.", says the brown man with the big stick.
Will do, my friend!
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Old 10-05-2012, 21:12   #49
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Originally Posted by randr1979 View Post
how cheap do you want it to be? how easy do you want it to acquire ba?
well how cheep will depend on the open market
I will say that for a new glock $450 up to $600 no where near the $1000
no permit like we do in Texas unless you want to carry
CHL is $250 for 4 years
and when we get constitutional carry $0.00
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:48   #50
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Make the PTC too expensive and it will be seen as for the rich only. You dont want it to be too cheap as well that everyone will just want to have one for the sake of it
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Old 10-06-2012, 15:57   #51
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living with it

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Originally Posted by mad.gunsmith View Post
well how cheep will depend on the open market
I will say that for a new glock $450 up to $600 no where near the $1000
no permit like we do in Texas unless you want to carry
CHL is $250 for 4 years
and when we get constitutional carry $0.00
i could live with that. especially that CHL fee and 4 year schedule.


TX got it good.
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Old 10-06-2012, 16:11   #52
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yup

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Originally Posted by jimbullet View Post
Make the PTC too expensive and it will be seen as for the rich only. You dont want it to be too cheap as well that everyone will just want to have one for the sake of it
i agree with jim, people rarely value things which are freely given away.

As for the high cost of licensing and issuance of permits making it seem elitist, it might do that but then again the FEO/FED is not in the business of creating an egalitarian society.

Let's face it, legal gun owners are in fact a select group already anyway and I don't see anything wrong with that. It takes a certain kind of character to freely decide to carry the privilege, burden, and responsibility of being armed in polite society. Guns are for some.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:28   #53
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Originally Posted by randr1979 View Post
Why I am okay with guns and ammo being expensive.


Going through Cabelas and Brownells I can't help but notice that we Filipinos (minimum wage $1.33/hr) pay two to three times the price people in the USA (minimum wage $7.25/hr) pay for their guns and ammo. Add to that an average of P5,500.00 for licensing, tax and bond, etc. and you are easily paying more than two times what a person in the USA would pay to legally acquire a similar firearm.

I am ok with this.

I am not rich, I barely make ends meet on most days but I understand why having firearms priced high and also requiring rather huge fees for licensing and the granting of carry permits are a good thing.

Drug testing proves nothing, it just says (assuming proper reagents are actually used on the test) you did not have drugs on your system at the time you took the test. Methamphetamine clears up in 48 hours, Marijuana maybe three or four times that duration. Neuro psychiatric evaluations (if actually administered to the applicant) prove next to nothing, it just assures the government that the gun is not going to be handed over to an imbecile (some might debate this).

What are we left with? Cost. The high price of guns and ammo gives a certain level of assurance to society at large that only those who have given it considerable thought will actually go through with their intention to purchase a firearm. Even a relatively rich person will think more than once about spending P45,000.00 to buy a Glock, possibly even more for higher priced brands. Having guns in the hands of people who think about their actions first is more than likely a good thing.

If guns could be had cheaply and on impulse I would expect the rate of hotheaded people shooting at other people would go up, especially in over crowded places like Metro Manila.

Some gun aficionados at times complain that we are getting robbed of our hard earned pesos because of the exhorbitant prices we have to pay to continue and enjoy our passion legally. Everytime similar thoughts come to mind I just imagine the hordes of mostly uneducated and discorteous people who operate dirty diesel powered public conveyances, most of which would not be considered roadworthy if they were to be actually inspected (both the vehicle and operator) and then I imagine, what if this person could actually afford to arm himself with something more potent than a tire iron? I then gladly hand over the P3,000.00 (which is easily a third of what I make every two weeks) to the nice lady at the counter just so I can have another 30 rounds in my magazine for my rifle.
Why do you expect shooting incidents to go up with the easy availability of firearms? Does the presence of a firearm somehow make people more prone to employ lethal force for no reason? Because if people are not killing each other in droves now, what would change with the presence of a gun?

Are these hordes of unwashed masses you speak of killing each other with tire irons and other things in such alarming numbers? Why not call for a ban on tire irons and have special tire iron police who shall be the only ones allowed to carry tire irons and who shall loosen and tighten lug bolts for us so we remove that thing that causes uneducated people to attack and kill each other?

When you get angry, do you tend to want to shoot people?

If not, what makes you assume other people will do that?

If you do, you have no business advocating who should and should not be owning firearms.

Speaking of education, it looks like yours did not include the study of logic and logical fallacies. Lack of education and discourteousness does not necessarily mean that that person will now purchase firearms and use them for no good reason if they were any less expensive. It simply does not follow-Non Sequitur. If someone called for education in logic to be a requirement to own a firearm, and you were thus disqualified to own a firearm, how would you feel?

And since when was a formal education necessary to determine a self defense situation?
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:11   #54
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Only the rich can own guns? That's plain and simple discrimination!

The real question is this: is the individual responsible and fit to own a firearm?
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:32   #55
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Originally Posted by g300d View Post
Why do you expect shooting incidents to go up with the easy availability of firearms? Does the presence of a firearm somehow make people more prone to employ lethal force for no reason? Because if people are not killing each other in droves now, what would change with the presence of a gun?

Are these hordes of unwashed masses you speak of killing each other with tire irons and other things in such alarming numbers? Why not call for a ban on tire irons and have special tire iron police who shall be the only ones allowed to carry tire irons and who shall loosen and tighten lug bolts for us so we remove that thing that causes uneducated people to attack and kill each other?

When you get angry, do you tend to want to shoot people?

If not, what makes you assume other people will do that?

If you do, you have no business advocating who should and should not be owning firearms.

Speaking of education, it looks like yours did not include the study of logic and logical fallacies. Lack of education and discourteousness does not necessarily mean that that person will now purchase firearms and use them for no good reason if they were any less expensive. It simply does not follow-Non Sequitur. If someone called for education in logic to be a requirement to own a firearm, and you were thus disqualified to own a firearm, how would you feel?

And since when was a formal education necessary to determine a self defense situation?
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:07   #56
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Originally Posted by isuzu View Post
Only the rich can own guns? That's plain and simple discrimination!

The real question is this: is the individual responsible and fit to own a firearm?
I agree. I believe a man's capacity to pay is never a good measure of that man's responsibility, principles or integrity!
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:21   #57
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Originally Posted by isuzu View Post
Only the rich can own guns? That's plain and simple discrimination!

The real question is this: is the individual responsible and fit to own a firearm?
Sorry, double-posted!
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Last edited by DocBob; 11-08-2012 at 03:23.. Reason: Double Post..
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:15   #58
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I agree. I believe a man's capacity to pay is never a good measure of that man's responsibility, principles or integrity!
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Old 11-09-2012, 00:54   #59
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wow this thread is still alive? sorry randr but your logic is so flawed. i won't bother to try to change your mind because you seem to be completely sold on this idea. i just wanna say that people like you are dangerous. i hope you don't end up in government
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:02   #60
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Originally Posted by isuzu View Post
Only the rich can own guns? That's plain and simple discrimination!

The real question is this: is the individual responsible and fit to own a firearm?


This nails it. This is where all these checkings and requirements should revolve around. Determining the suitability of a person to own one.
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