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Old 09-29-2012, 09:09   #41
jbglock
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Tase or sprayed I have always thought it was stupid. I carry a baton but didn't have to get beat with it. I carry a Glock and didn't have to get shot with it. I charge people with possession of marijuana and cocaine and it wasn't a requirement that I get high on weed or smoke crack. I charge dui but wasn't required to drive around drunk. I'm all for beating one down when required and have a low level of tolerance for BS on the job but this talk of recruits needing to "man up" is outright stupid IMO. I don't even believe in spray. If that is required then a tasing or good old fashioned *** whipping will do.
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:25   #42
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Originally Posted by jbglock View Post
Tase or sprayed I have always thought it was stupid. I carry a baton but didn't have to get beat with it. I carry a Glock and didn't have to get shot with it. I charge people with possession of marijuana and cocaine and it wasn't a requirement that I get high on weed or smoke crack. I charge dui but wasn't required to drive around drunk. I'm all for beating one down when required and have a low level of tolerance for BS on the job but this talk of recruits needing to "man up" is outright stupid IMO. I don't even believe in spray. If that is required then a tasing or good old fashioned *** whipping will do.
I've been hit with a baton numerous times in training. They don't always get the bag. I've been exposed to OC in the field every time its been deployed, including a couple of pretty good blasts. I've been shocked by Taser through the wires three times on the street, including one time where I received full NMI effect. We also were required to box each other in the academy...not to learn how to throw punches, but to feel what it was like to get hit in the face (in case you'd never been there before).

Exposure is a GOOD idea for several reasons:

It makes the officer aware of the effects of the tool, which provides some stress inoculation in the event of an exposure in the field.

It also tells the officer how their body will likely react in the field.

It gives them the knowledge to justify an escalation of force when exposed to something, or when a less lethal weapon is taken/attempted to be taken away from them by a bad guy.

It gives the officer credibility when testifying in a civil suit involving use of force.

Having been through a 1983 suit from a Taser deployment, I can tell you without reservation that having been exposed to Taser in training made me much more comfortable and competent at testifying in depositions. The plaintiffs attorney was not prepared for my answer to "can you describe the effects?", which was "it was the absolute worst experience in my life, until it was off, and then I was fine." We won a summary judgment.
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:45   #43
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We had a recruit who got a chemical burn to their eyes from Def-Tec stuff. I stand by my earlier statements that they just need to toughen up, buttercup!
Most of the PA Troopers I've met were pretty tough men. Hard edged more then most.
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:50   #44
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Hmmm...perhaps our resident PASP recruit will chime in with some more info.
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Old 09-29-2012, 16:14   #45
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Yep. If the gray gods can't use it, we sure can't either. After all, we arn't responsible enough to be trusted to not use RADAR as a money maker.

... or make arrests for vehicle code violations or enforce speed laws on limited access highways within my own GD jurisdiction.

Or buy as much, or little, beer as I want/need at a supermarket AND use the same checkout line as I would to buy the rest of my groceries.....

I. Hate. Pennsylvania.

I know, I know..... I complain to much. My apologies to all.
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Old 09-29-2012, 16:59   #46
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... or make arrests for vehicle code violations or enforce speed laws on limited access highways within my own GD jurisdiction.

Or buy as much, or little, beer as I want/need at a supermarket AND use the same checkout line as I would to buy the rest of my groceries.....

I. Hate. Pennsylvania.

I know, I know..... I complain to much. My apologies to all.
Its okay, you can become a buckeye.
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Old 09-29-2012, 18:16   #47
SCSU74
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I hate OC with a passion, been exposed 3 times. I don't carry it for the simple reason I don't want it anywhere near me when it goes off


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong
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Old 09-29-2012, 20:30   #48
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Originally Posted by 11A View Post
I wish we were allowed to close our eyes and then get sprayed across the forehead. We got sprayed in the eyes with Fox 5.3; I thought my eyes were melting out of their sockets.

We had on guy who reacted badly to getting sprayed. His eyes were messed up for a week, but he was fine after that.
I was beginning to think it was just us! I couldn't see anything but a big blur for 30 minutes, and that was after I could open my eyes....
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Old 10-05-2012, 18:16   #49
KiloBravo
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Hmmm...perhaps our resident PASP recruit will chime in with some more info.
I am here now. I just got home from the academy an hour ago for another three day weekend. I LOLd when I saw this thread. I had no idea they did a news article on what happened.

It was indeed my class that was effected. There is an ongoing investigation, so I cannot divulge specifics. Basically, more than 1/3 of our class got a huge percentage of their cornia bunred, and abrasions over most of the entire eye. Some people got their entire eye jacked up. My one buddy's eye looked like raw hamburger for 2 weeks afterwards. Some people's vision still is not back to what it was, almost a month later. I got lucky and only had one visit to the eye doctor. Some guys had to go back 10-12 times for follow ups.

Testing was done on the OC and everything was pulled from all troopers' belts. It was determined to be a bad batch of spray. There was another municipal class at another training location that was hit as well a week before us with the same stuff. 12 of the 14 of them ended up in the ER after being sprayed. I have been sprayed before and was fine in 20 minutes. I knew it was not normal seeing how everybody was still reacting to it the following day.

I have to admit that I am about as tough as they come, and it was one of the worst things to ever happen to me. Not knowing if my vision would ever return to normal was a scary feeling. Some guys might end up needing a corrective procedure because of it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 18:21   #50
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Originally Posted by KiloBravo View Post
I am here now. I just got home from the academy an hour ago for another three day weekend. I LOLd when I saw this thread. I had no idea they did a news article on what happened.

It was indeed my class that was effected. There is an ongoing investigation, so I cannot divulge specifics. Basically, more than 1/3 of our class got a huge percentage of their cornia bunred, and abrasions over most of the entire eye. Some people got their entire eye jacked up. My one buddy's eye looked like raw hamburger for 2 weeks afterwards. Some people's vision still is not back to what it was, almost a month later. I got lucky and only had one visit to the eye doctor. Some guys had to go back 10-12 times for follow ups.

Testing was done on the OC and everything was pulled from all troopers' belts. It was determined to be a bad batch of spray. There was another municipal class at another training location that was hit as well a week before us with the same stuff. 12 of the 14 of them ended up in the ER after being sprayed. I have been sprayed before and was fine in 20 minutes. I knew it was not normal seeing how everybody was still reacting to it the following day.

I have to admit that I am about as tough as they come, and it was one of the worst things to ever happen to me. Not knowing if my vision would ever return to normal was a scary feeling. Some guys might end up needing a corrective procedure because of it.
Ouch! Glad to know you came out of it all right, though!
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