Tenifer-When switched

DirtyDan · 10-04-2012, 14:39

I knew Glock had been playing with different finishes the last couple of years and had heard rumors about them stopping using the actual Tenifer process and today I talked to Glock Inc. and they said that yes they have stopped using Tenifer and now use a similar although not exactly the same process.The CS rep could not tell me why or when they switched.

Does anyone know when Glock stopped using the actual Tenifer process?

cowboy1964 · 10-04-2012, 14:49

Be aware that the metal treatment and the top coat are two different things. The Tenifer is underneath the top coat.

I just picked up a Gen 4 23. The improved grippiness of the lighter gray finish is really welcome.

**DannyR** · 10-04-2012, 15:12

GLOCK has indeed replaced the Tenifer process with a Nitrate (or Nitride) process. I think the transition took place at least a year ago. I learned of it in March 2012 at Armorer's Class.

BBMW · 10-04-2012, 15:18

Tennifer was a nitride process (ferric nitrocarborizing?) From what I heard, they switched to Melonite, which is a different name brand of ferric nitrocarborizing. Interestingly, they're both sold by the same company.

And yes, Glock puts a cosmetic top coat on top of this.

seed · 10-04-2012, 15:22

Tennifer uses cyanide as a medium and is either illegal to use in the U.S. or is strictly regulated (with obvious good reason). Melonite uses a different medium and is much more common here and is probably catching on in Europe.

DirtyDan · 10-04-2012, 18:48

Last new Glock I purchased was a G26 with a Manufacture date of July 2009. Slide finish is black and shiny, but the barrel looks more greyish. I had never even noticed it until reading about the different finishes and went and compared it with my older Glocks. Not real concerned about it as long it has the Tenifer under it and it sounds like I should have based on the manufacture date.

***faawrenchbndr*** · 10-05-2012, 01:56

It's all about using safer chemicals in the process.
Basically the same metal treatment.

SmoKoY · 10-05-2012, 03:16

I was wondering that too. Got my g19 gen 3 (US not Austria) and noticed the duller finish of the slide compared to my brother's g19 gen3 mariner (Austria) which had a more glossy texture.

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ricklee4570 · 10-05-2012, 03:26

Anytime a proven process (Tennifer) is changed, people become nervous. The big question is whether the new treatment will be a durable and rust resistant as the old treatment. Time will tell.

gwdex · 10-05-2012, 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by seed

Tennifer uses cyanide as a medium and is either illegal to use in the U.S. or is strictly regulated (with obvious good reason). Melonite uses a different medium and is much more common here and is probably catching on in Europe.

Tenifer and Melonite are essentially the same process, both manufactured by HEF. Both develop a small amount of cyanide, along with the cyanates produced in the salt bath, which create a compound layer of nitride over a diffusion zone.

Greg

ricklee4570 · 10-05-2012, 05:56

If they both are so similar and both have the same byproduct of cyanide, why did Glock switch?

Ridder · 10-05-2012, 07:09

Maybe they didn't.......

They still have Tenifer mentioned on their site!

http://www.glock.com/english/pistols_intro.htm

SJ 40 · 10-05-2012, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridder

Maybe they didn't.......

They still have Tenifer mentioned on their site!

http://www.glock.com/english/pistols_intro.htm

I wouldn't go by that their website is usually out of date. SJ 40

fuzzy03cls · 10-05-2012, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

Anytime a proven process (Tennifer) is changed, people become nervous. The big question is whether the new treatment will be a durable and rust resistant as the old treatment. Time will tell.

Time has already told. Many reports of the new finish sucking for wear & more reports of glocks rusting in spots from normal holster wear & carry.
Many more reports then the older glocks before they started this new process.

gwdex · 10-05-2012, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

If they both are so similar and both have the same byproduct of cyanide, why did Glock switch?

At this time, I'm not convinced that they have. However, that said, both the Melonite and Tenifer processes develop small amounts of cyanide and cyanate in the nitriding salt bath as the process is performed. The cyanide and cyanate are important to the reactions that take place in the salt bath as the medium interacts with the surfaces of the ferritic materials being processed. The compound layer of nitride is formed, and a diffusion zone made up of carbon and nitrogen components is immediately beneath. Once the process cycle is completed, the parts are removed from the nitride bath and immersed in a second oxidizing salt bath that chemically destroys the cyanide and cyanate. Subsequent to immersion in the oxidizing bath, the parts are removed and cooled in water to near room temperature, followed by washing to remove salt residues.

With proper immersion of the parts in the oxidizing bath, cyanide and cyanate by-products are destroyed. Analyzing the wash water will reveal that free cyanide is not present. If both processes are performed correctly, Glock should not have significant concerns with cyanide being present on the parts they surface treat after they are FNC processed.

My direct familiarity with the salt bath FNC processes noted is limited to the Melonite, as we perform said process in our company, which is involved in commercial heat treating.

Greg

***Morris*** · 10-05-2012, 11:55

The USA "tennifer" is indeed different than the Austria "tennifer." It came down to the EPA which would not grant US the various certificates to use the same materials. Hence, US had to fine a like and very close product that met the EPA.

This was a detailed topic in an armorer's class nearly three years ago. Gwdex writes up some of what Glock USA dealt with, in dealing with the EPA.

9mm +p+ · 10-05-2012, 12:42

Yet another reason to find older Glocks...

SJ 40 · 10-05-2012, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+

Yet another reason to find older Glocks...

I can't won't argue that. SJ 40

cowboywannabe · 10-05-2012, 14:59

as long as it doesnt rust......

Raleigh Glocker · 10-05-2012, 17:05

It's not like Tenifer Glocks are the only pistols that are resistant to rust. If the new Glocks are experiencing spot rusting, then Glock picked the wrong thing to replace Tenifer (if not truly Melonite) or needs to get better at Melonite.

However, I would not care a hoot whether I got a gun finished properly with Tenifer or with Melonite.

M 7 · 10-05-2012, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+

Yet another reason to find older Glocks...

Makes me glad I've got mine already- none of which were made any earlier than '06.

R.T. · 10-05-2012, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Does anyone know when Glock stopped using the actual Tenifer process?

Check out this thread: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1412005

bustedknee · 10-05-2012, 18:07

OK.

A short Glock history lesson.

Glock used to make all kinds of products.

When Austria wanted a new army handgun, Gaston Glock decided to get into the gun business. Apparently there wasn't that much money in shower curtain rings and tampon applicators.

The first model pistol was called the model 1. It didn't work.
Models 2-16 had problems but model 17 was perfection.

Then came the other models.

Now, to address the question about finish:
The first finish process Glock used on the model 1 was called Ifer finish but it did not work well and he could see it needed improvement. He called the first process Oneifer.
Changing basic chemicals, he tried it again with Twoifer.
Perfection occurred with his tenth try when he used good old fashioned sugar as the active ingredient, He named it Tenifer.

When Glock opened his plant in the USA the Federal Government (the FDA) would not allow him to use the main active ingredient (sugar) in the process. After several years he finally reached Glock perfection once again by using Splenda in the process. It is now called Elevenifer. Nitride for short.

Don't even ask me how I know this, but Gaston's Mom vacations in Wythe County a couple times a year and I take her catfishing on Claytor Lake.

DirtyDan · 10-05-2012, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.T.

Check out this thread: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1412005

I had already seen that thread, but found nothing real definitive. I even emailed the source(lynn freshly) listed on page two about where he got his info and he stated ...

"The information came from my boss at Glock Professional. It is my understanding now that 2007 was the start of the switch from Tennifer to Nitration."

Another Glock Inc.CS rep told me today that a total across the board of all calibers switch from Tenifer to the new process took place in mid 2011. I guess it's possible and/or likely there was earlier use of the new process, but I can't imagine it really being before 2010.He also said my July 2009 G26 with the Black Slide and Grey barrel would have Tenifer under both finishes.
Some may think this topic is redundant, useless or flat out annoying, but the Tenifer and it's performance history was a big selling point for me.The newer metal treatment although very similar and/or in the same general classification as Tenifer just doesn't seem like it's performing as well based on what I'm reading on various forums. I'm not sure if it's possible to get the real answer of when the switch was made or if/ how many early models where sent out with the newer metal treatment short getting the information from records directly from Austria.
I will personally stick to buying older Glocks(pre-2010)for now to be on the safe side.

SJ 40 · 10-05-2012, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

I had already seen that thread, but found nothing real definitive. I even emailed the source(lynn freshly) listed on page two about where he got his info and he stated ...

"The information came from my boss at Glock Professional. It is my understanding now that 2007 was the start of the switch from Tennifer to Nitration."

Another Glock Inc.CS rep told me today that a total across the board of all calibers switch from Tenifer to the new process took place in mid 2011. I guess it's possible and/or likely there was earlier use of the new process, but I can't imagine it really being before 2010.He also said my July 2009 G26 with the Black Slide and Grey barrel would have Tenifer under both finishes.
Some may think this topic is redundant, useless or flat out annoying, but the Tenifer and it's performance history was a big selling point for me.The newer metal treatment although very similar and/or in the same general classification as Tenifer just doesn't seem like it's performing as well based on what I'm reading on various forums. I'm not sure if it's possible to get the real answer of when the switch was made or if/ how many early models where sent out with the newer metal treatment short getting the information from records directly from Austria.
I will personally stick to buying older Glocks(pre-2010)for now to be on the safe side.

This is just me but I prefer even earlier than that,pre 2007 to avoid other cost cutting,performance measures taken by Glock. YMMV SJ 40