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Old 10-01-2012, 05:55   #241
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
"Sure" is a big word in science, but I find the sudden change in the fossil record above and below the KT boundary to be pretty convincing, yes. Are there other theories, of course, but you have to go through some pretty tough mental gymnastics to accept one of those above the much more obvious explanation of an impact event. Occam's Razor and all that...

I'm actually surprised King took that position. Most theists I've talked to accept the impact evidence and assume an enormous tsunami as the result. Still a bit of confirmation bias, but at least one more consistent with observations.
But just how close can you attach these two events? 10 years, 100? 1000? It bears looking into, but it's not certain. Lots if things have happened that man was not around to witness.
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Old 10-01-2012, 13:42   #242
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But just how close can you attach these two events? 10 years, 100? 1000? It bears looking into, but it's not certain. Lots if things have happened that man was not around to witness.
You are making an argument based on the validity and soundness of the evidence as it supports the proposed hypothesis. This is a reasonable thing to do (I'd disagree that the time interval in question is significant, but let's set that aside for a moment). My point in raising the issue was that King declared that there was no evidence at all.

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It is ironic that you can accept a hypothesized asterorid hitting earth in the past and causing a cataclysim, for which there is entirely no evidence
Clearly there is evidence. We have a global KT boundary with unusually high levels of iridium (as typically found in meteors). We have an impact crater of sufficient size to cause a global catalclysm (the Chicxulub Crater off the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula). We have the iridium samples from various locations around the worls that vary in direct proportion to their distance to the crater. And finally, we have the fossil record which shows a sudden extinction event centered on the KT boundary (with large amounts of species that existed before it, going extinct suddenly after it).

Now, you can challenge any or all of those points on whatever grounds you like (which you have done, for instance) and we can discuss the relative merits of the argument as compared to the evidence, but that is not what King has done (and not what he typically does). He declares unilaterally that evidence does not exist and when someone like me posts such evidence, he never returns to the discussion (or at least doesn't acknowledge that his point has been countered). Invariably, some time later, he makes the same claim again, even though he knows that he was presented with evidence previously.

That's disengenious.
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Old 10-01-2012, 16:55   #243
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Quote: Originally posted by Brokenprism
This really should be called the atheist forum, because you guys own it.

The Internet...Where religion goes to die!
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Old 10-01-2012, 23:28   #244
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The Internet...Where religion goes to die!
The sooner the better.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:10   #245
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
You are making an argument based on the validity and soundness of the evidence as it supports the proposed hypothesis. This is a reasonable thing to do (I'd disagree that the time interval in question is significant, but let's set that aside for a moment). My point in raising the issue was that King declared that there was no evidence at all.



Clearly there is evidence. We have a global KT boundary with unusually high levels of iridium (as typically found in meteors). We have an impact crater of sufficient size to cause a global catalclysm (the Chicxulub Crater off the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula). We have the iridium samples from various locations around the worls that vary in direct proportion to their distance to the crater. And finally, we have the fossil record which shows a sudden extinction event centered on the KT boundary (with large amounts of species that existed before it, going extinct suddenly after it).

Now, you can challenge any or all of those points on whatever grounds you like (which you have done, for instance) and we can discuss the relative merits of the argument as compared to the evidence, but that is not what King has done (and not what he typically does). He declares unilaterally that evidence does not exist and when someone like me posts such evidence, he never returns to the discussion (or at least doesn't acknowledge that his point has been countered). Invariably, some time later, he makes the same claim again, even though he knows that he was presented with evidence previously.

That's disengenious.
It's absolutely genuine. Some measurable facts like the KT boundary have been used by imaginitive people to tell a story. There are missing but critical pieces of the puzzle still. It's plausible, but not definite. But many people are uncomfortable with the fact that a lot of what has happened in the universe and on this planet are still really mysteries. It's narcissistic to pretend you have all the answers.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:36   #246
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This threads like a bar fight, pointless but fun. Anyone want a beer? I'm buying.




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Cool. We can discuss theories how a lone guy hung and perfectly balanced a 9 ton coral rock gate you can move with a finger.

http://coralcastle.com/
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:38   #247
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The Internet...Where religion goes to die!
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The sooner the better.
Religion has killed millions upon millions of fellow human beings over time. I'm into faith, myself.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:10   #248
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
It's absolutely genuine. Some measurable facts like the KT boundary have been used by imaginitive people to tell a story. There are missing but critical pieces of the puzzle still. It's plausible, but not definite. But many people are uncomfortable with the fact that a lot of what has happened in the universe and on this planet are still really mysteries. It's narcissistic to pretend you have all the answers.
Now you are being disengenious (again). I didn't claim to have all the answers, but I did show that there is evidence in support of the theory. You agreed there was evidence (although your position is that it is inconclusive), but then in the same breath claim King was not being disengenious.

King claimed that there was absolutely no evidence at all, inconclusive or otherwise. Clearly there is at least some. You (and he) might not find it compelling, but to continually claim there is zero is just flat out wrong. And you sticking to your one trick pony argument when it's not even applicable to the point at hand is equally wrong.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:48   #249
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Okay, so all religious violence is acceptable to you with the exception of Islam. Got it.
Have you not on several occasions claimed to be a Christian? So why are you bearing false witness against your neighbor, and on behalf of a false prophet's homicidal followers who are attacking us, no less?
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:00   #250
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It's narcissistic to pretend you have all the answers.
Serious question, why do you only seem to challenge athiests when they evaluate empirical evidence and come to a tentative conclusion, but never seem to challenge theists when they claim absolute certainty based on no evidence at all?

It seems to me that if you believe that we are narcissitc for following the scientific method (which never claims absolute certainty) then you must also consider them to be that much more so since they claim divinely inspired absolutes based on faith alone?
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Old 10-05-2012, 14:27   #251
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... we ... follow... the scientific method (which never claims absolute certainty)
Oh, you mean like this? "No atheist has ever killed a human being because they were atheist. Ever, not one" (Glock36shooter, in post #153).
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Old 10-05-2012, 14:40   #252
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Oh, you mean like this? "No atheist has ever killed a human being because they were atheist. Ever, not one" (Glock36shooter, in post #153).
You still haven't illustrated otherwise.
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