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Old 10-03-2012, 14:19   #26
FFR Spyder GT
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Being from Arkansas I've killed several whitetail deer with squirrel shot when I was a kid.

For HD I would pass on the low brass birdshot but if you are concerned about overpenetration of BS in your house, trailer, apartment, condo, etc and high brass #6,5 or 4 shot will do the trick at short distances, like the ones you will deal with inside your home.

At 20' a high brass squirrel shot is still a solid mass even out of a cylinder bore and will punch through stuff just like BS but will break up while going through a standard sheetrocked 2x4 wall.

I have a Win 1300 Defender for HD and even though the tube holds 7- 2 3/4" shells I only load it with 5 plus one in the chamber. I also have a 5rd shell holder on the buttstock that's loaded with 3 "OOO" and two 3" 1 1/4oz slugs.

For the "what if" guy....... Load you shotgun with 1 round of squirrel shot in the chamber and 5 rds of SS in the tube and 3 rounds of BS and 2 slugs in the shell holder. Or place a SS in the chamber, 2 BS in the tube, then 3 SS and BS and slugs in the shell holder.

Since I live with just myself, the Wife, a dog and a cat I'm not too worried about shooting someone at the other end of the house and my nearest neighbor is 300yds away I use BS.

When I lived in a condo with my daughter I used the SS/BS combo that I posted.

If you blast a BG at 15' with a 2 3/4" high brass #4 squirrel shot load in his COM he will be dead by the time you can walk over to his corpse.

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Old 10-03-2012, 15:11   #27
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I'd stick with nothing smaller than #1 buckshot. Smaller shot sizes are more easily deflected by ribs.
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Old 10-03-2012, 15:23   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glock_19guy1983 View Post
Also, just imagine how bad that could jam up the works on a pump or auto if it broke in half while cycling.
Cut shells are meant for single shot or a double barrel.

They are old school slugs, basically. No need to do it with todays slug shells.

I vote for the 00 buck myself.
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Old 10-03-2012, 15:48   #29
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Birdshot is for birds. Not defense against violent criminals.

My shotgun is currently loaded with Federal's LE132-1B, that's a 15 pellet #1 Buck with flight control wad. If I were to load it with any other shot, it would be one of my wide selection of 00.

When I lived in an apartment I loaded it with 2 3/4" magnum #4 buck, which was 34 pellets of #4. Smallest I would ever go.
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Old 10-03-2012, 16:22   #30
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I've seen mug shots and other pictures of bad guys. Some were pretty big/fat. Ad drugs in their system and I want as much as I can get.

00 buck. 9 - 33 cal pellets 7 times if need be.

A cop friend of mine said not to mix shells, for example -none of that 1- #4 buck, 3- 00 buck and the rest slugs. They load all 00 buck, so should I.
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Old 10-03-2012, 16:48   #31
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It just goes to show how ignorant both the military and Law Enforcement agencies are. They keep using buckshot after all these years. I can't even figure out why buckshot was even invented. The answer was always birdshot.

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Old 10-03-2012, 16:49   #32
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It just goes to show how ignorant both the military and Law Enforcement agencies are. They keep using buckshot after all these years. I can't even figure out why buckshot was even invented. The answer was always birdshot.

Yes, we should always use what the military uses, without questioning why.

That's why we only ever carry FMJ in our pistols, because the military does what is best.
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Old 10-03-2012, 16:57   #33
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Yes, we should always use what the military uses, without questioning why.

That's why we only ever carry FMJ in our pistols, because the military does what is best.
Well, when they invent hollow point buckshot it might become the same kind of issue for the military as FMJ but in the meantime Law Enforcement agencies are not so constricted and they still seem to prefer buckshot.
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Old 10-03-2012, 17:27   #34
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Birshot is for birds. You may get suitable results using a full choke & large birdshot @ close range but open choke riot guns, nope. With a spread of 1" per yard, that is a 5-6" pattern on a guys chest @ 20ft. If he is wearing a heavy leather coat, he is not suffering much from shot #6 or smaller.
I have tested this on a beef ribcage @ 20ft. The #6 shot did NOT penetrate thru the back side of the ribcage covered w/ 2 layers of denim. So serious SD/HD use starts w/ #4 buckshot & larger. Anything else is a risk you can take, but not me. If it's bad enough fo rme to be going to a SG, it's bad enough that the fight needs to stop right now. The ribcage on the left was hit W/ #4 buck, open choke 870. The right was #6 shot.
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Old 10-03-2012, 18:18   #35
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Well, when they invent hollow point buckshot it might become the same kind of issue for the military as FMJ but in the meantime Law Enforcement agencies are not so constricted and they still seem to prefer buckshot.
That they do.
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Old 10-03-2012, 20:23   #36
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Sorry if I came off as "birdshot is useless". It's not, but there is better options out there, and that I don't think is disputable....
I haven't read anyone here yet advocating using birdshot over other loads. However, sometimes you have to dance with the girl you bring. In a perfect world you can load this or that and carry a particular firearm. However, I know from experience that this isn't a perfect world and when it hits the fan you have to use what you have at that time. The point of this entire thread is that birdshot will definitely do more damage than some of the uninformed actually realize. Until you have seen the damage then don't discount it doing the job in certain circumstances. That birdshot load may be the only fat girl left at the dance. You may prefer the long haired blonde but she may not be there when the music starts.
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Old 10-03-2012, 20:28   #37
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Of course if the option is birdshot or an unloaded gun I'm taking the birdshot. That goes without saying.

Spinoff: What if the S were to HTF and you had a shotgun with birdshot...let's say a #6 target load...vs your most carried Glock loaded with a quality JHP. Which would you rather have in your hands when the zombies come through the door?
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Old 10-03-2012, 23:08   #38
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That birdshot load may be the only fat girl left at the dance. You may prefer the long haired blonde but she may not be there when the music starts. \
This is fantastic.
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Old 10-04-2012, 00:45   #39
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For my needs, Fed low Recoil 00.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:22   #40
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Originally Posted by FFR Spyder GT View Post
Being from Arkansas I've killed several whitetail deer with squirrel shot when I was a kid.

For HD I would pass on the low brass birdshot but if you are concerned about overpenetration of BS in your house, trailer, apartment, condo, etc and high brass #6,5 or 4 shot will do the trick at short distances, like the ones you will deal with inside your home.

At 20' a high brass squirrel shot is still a solid mass even out of a cylinder bore and will punch through stuff just like BS but will break up while going through a standard sheetrocked 2x4 wall.

I have a Win 1300 Defender for HD and even though the tube holds 7- 2 3/4" shells I only load it with 5 plus one in the chamber. I also have a 5rd shell holder on the buttstock that's loaded with 3 "OOO" and two 3" 1 1/4oz slugs.

For the "what if" guy....... Load you shotgun with 1 round of squirrel shot in the chamber and 5 rds of SS in the tube and 3 rounds of BS and 2 slugs in the shell holder. Or place a SS in the chamber, 2 BS in the tube, then 3 SS and BS and slugs in the shell holder.

Since I live with just myself, the Wife, a dog and a cat I'm not too worried about shooting someone at the other end of the house and my nearest neighbor is 300yds away I use BS.

When I lived in a condo with my daughter I used the SS/BS combo that I posted.

If you blast a BG at 15' with a 2 3/4" high brass #4 squirrel shot load in his COM he will be dead by the time you can walk over to his corpse.

Spyder
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:29   #41
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That birdshot load may be the only fat girl left at the dance. You may prefer the long haired blonde but she may not be there when the music starts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austinite View Post
This is fantastic.
Yes, priceless.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:47   #42
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Re: OP. Such post make for good youtube entertainment. Addressing HD/SD, such post are a waste of time. I've shot a lot of stuff with standard 12 ga. hunting loads. At across the room distances... it is very effective on targets animate and inanimate. Not concerned about if they are hiding behind a wall, refrigerator, etc. Anyone can concoct some sort of scenario where a particular firearm/caliber/gauge will not be effective.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:53   #43
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Am I the only one that seems to dimly remember during the urban riots of the 1960s birdshot fired at the good guys not penetrating LEOs leather jackets? Or is it a myth?
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:12   #44
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Agreed my experience in EMS and Trauma Centers tells me that from room distances birdshot will make a nice rathole wound. Even in the coldest of weather with thick clothing.
But does it work better than 0, 00, or #4 at close ranges?

I don't think that there is a whole lot of argument that these other loads work better than #7-1/2 or #8 under other conditions.

So bird shot may work well under certain conditions, but other loads work better under a wider variety of conditions.

Of course all bets are off for .410 birdshot in a handgun where there is wide dispersion, and little penetration, even at room distances.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:33   #45
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I use the 12ga slug and OO buckshot combo. I like the idea of a slug accompanied by three OO pellets.
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Old 10-05-2012, 14:44   #46
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Originally Posted by isp2605 View Post
I haven't read anyone here yet advocating using birdshot over other loads. However, sometimes you have to dance with the girl you bring. In a perfect world you can load this or that and carry a particular firearm. However, I know from experience that this isn't a perfect world and when it hits the fan you have to use what you have at that time. The point of this entire thread is that birdshot will definitely do more damage than some of the uninformed actually realize. Until you have seen the damage then don't discount it doing the job in certain circumstances. That birdshot load may be the only fat girl left at the dance. You may prefer the long haired blonde but she may not be there when the music starts.

Well since you put the analogy like that. I get what I want, so no worries in the first place.

BUT, if that fat girl were the only one left, I'd leave it, and go for the chubby cute girl down the block, IE my glock 19. I'll take that over Birdshot, still.
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Old 10-05-2012, 16:11   #47
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I use the 12ga slug and OO buckshot combo. I like the idea of a slug accompanied by three OO pellets.
I think that's the Pit Bull.
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Old 10-05-2012, 16:23   #48
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I think that's the Pit Bull.
Never heard of a Pit Bull round. I'm sure some random company decided that marketing sells, picked up the well known buck and ball, or whatever you want to call it, and ran with it
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Old 10-05-2012, 17:06   #49
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1.3 oz slug + 6 OO buckshot.

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Old 10-05-2012, 17:37   #50
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I'll stick to ammunition from a major, reputable, trusted manufacturer for life or death use.
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