GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-04-2012, 14:39   #1
DirtyDan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 149
Tenifer-When switched

I knew Glock had been playing with different finishes the last couple of years and had heard rumors about them stopping using the actual Tenifer process and today I talked to Glock Inc. and they said that yes they have stopped using Tenifer and now use a similar although not exactly the same process.The CS rep could not tell me why or when they switched.

Does anyone know when Glock stopped using the actual Tenifer process?
DirtyDan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 14:49   #2
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 14,396
Be aware that the metal treatment and the top coat are two different things. The Tenifer is underneath the top coat.

I just picked up a Gen 4 23. The improved grippiness of the lighter gray finish is really welcome.
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 15:12   #3
DannyR
Moderator
 
DannyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Roanoke, Virginia
Posts: 38,243
GLOCK has indeed replaced the Tenifer process with a Nitrate (or Nitride) process. I think the transition took place at least a year ago. I learned of it in March 2012 at Armorer's Class.
__________________
Lifetime GSSF Member
Certified Glock Armorer 1997-2015
NROI, Level I
Bull Dawg #1
www.gssfonline.com
https://sites.google.com/site/dannyvickieryan

Last edited by DannyR; 10-04-2012 at 15:13..
DannyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 15:18   #4
BBMW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 194
Tennifer was a nitride process (ferric nitrocarborizing?) From what I heard, they switched to Melonite, which is a different name brand of ferric nitrocarborizing. Interestingly, they're both sold by the same company.

And yes, Glock puts a cosmetic top coat on top of this.
BBMW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 15:22   #5
seed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,138
Tennifer uses cyanide as a medium and is either illegal to use in the U.S. or is strictly regulated (with obvious good reason). Melonite uses a different medium and is much more common here and is probably catching on in Europe.
seed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 18:48   #6
DirtyDan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 149
Last new Glock I purchased was a G26 with a Manufacture date of July 2009. Slide finish is black and shiny, but the barrel looks more greyish. I had never even noticed it until reading about the different finishes and went and compared it with my older Glocks. Not real concerned about it as long it has the Tenifer under it and it sounds like I should have based on the manufacture date.
DirtyDan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 01:56   #7
faawrenchbndr
CLM Number 281
NRA Life Member
 
faawrenchbndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: US
Posts: 31,934
It's all about using safer chemicals in the process.
Basically the same metal treatment.
faawrenchbndr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 03:16   #8
SmoKoY
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
I was wondering that too. Got my g19 gen 3 (US not Austria) and noticed the duller finish of the slide compared to my brother's g19 gen3 mariner (Austria) which had a more glossy texture.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
SmoKoY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 03:26   #9
ricklee4570
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,794
Anytime a proven process (Tennifer) is changed, people become nervous. The big question is whether the new treatment will be a durable and rust resistant as the old treatment. Time will tell.
__________________
USMC--Proud Warriors Always Ready to Fight
ricklee4570 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:34   #10
gwdex
Senior Member
 
gwdex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by seed View Post
Tennifer uses cyanide as a medium and is either illegal to use in the U.S. or is strictly regulated (with obvious good reason). Melonite uses a different medium and is much more common here and is probably catching on in Europe.
Tenifer and Melonite are essentially the same process, both manufactured by HEF. Both develop a small amount of cyanide, along with the cyanates produced in the salt bath, which create a compound layer of nitride over a diffusion zone.

Greg
gwdex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 05:56   #11
ricklee4570
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,794
If they both are so similar and both have the same byproduct of cyanide, why did Glock switch?
__________________
USMC--Proud Warriors Always Ready to Fight
ricklee4570 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 07:09   #12
Ridder
Senior Member
 
Ridder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 181
Maybe they didn't.......

They still have Tenifer mentioned on their site!

http://www.glock.com/english/pistols_intro.htm
__________________
G34 Gen4
Ridder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 07:17   #13
SJ 40
Senior Member
 
SJ 40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 6,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridder View Post
Maybe they didn't.......

They still have Tenifer mentioned on their site!

http://www.glock.com/english/pistols_intro.htm
I wouldn't go by that their website is usually out of date. SJ 40
SJ 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 07:44   #14
fuzzy03cls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklee4570 View Post
Anytime a proven process (Tennifer) is changed, people become nervous. The big question is whether the new treatment will be a durable and rust resistant as the old treatment. Time will tell.
Time has already told. Many reports of the new finish sucking for wear & more reports of glocks rusting in spots from normal holster wear & carry.
Many more reports then the older glocks before they started this new process.
fuzzy03cls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 08:31   #15
gwdex
Senior Member
 
gwdex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklee4570 View Post
If they both are so similar and both have the same byproduct of cyanide, why did Glock switch?
At this time, I'm not convinced that they have. However, that said, both the Melonite and Tenifer processes develop small amounts of cyanide and cyanate in the nitriding salt bath as the process is performed. The cyanide and cyanate are important to the reactions that take place in the salt bath as the medium interacts with the surfaces of the ferritic materials being processed. The compound layer of nitride is formed, and a diffusion zone made up of carbon and nitrogen components is immediately beneath. Once the process cycle is completed, the parts are removed from the nitride bath and immersed in a second oxidizing salt bath that chemically destroys the cyanide and cyanate. Subsequent to immersion in the oxidizing bath, the parts are removed and cooled in water to near room temperature, followed by washing to remove salt residues.

With proper immersion of the parts in the oxidizing bath, cyanide and cyanate by-products are destroyed. Analyzing the wash water will reveal that free cyanide is not present. If both processes are performed correctly, Glock should not have significant concerns with cyanide being present on the parts they surface treat after they are FNC processed.

My direct familiarity with the salt bath FNC processes noted is limited to the Melonite, as we perform said process in our company, which is involved in commercial heat treating.

Greg
gwdex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 11:55   #16
Morris
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North of Seattle, South of Canada
Posts: 11,163


The USA "tennifer" is indeed different than the Austria "tennifer." It came down to the EPA which would not grant US the various certificates to use the same materials. Hence, US had to fine a like and very close product that met the EPA.

This was a detailed topic in an armorer's class nearly three years ago. Gwdex writes up some of what Glock USA dealt with, in dealing with the EPA.
__________________
Neo-pagan, FORMER Libertarian, Cop, Gun Owner, Jewish Heritage - I'm the small talk at parties!

Certified Glock Armorer
Certified M&P Armorer

Say NO! to Washington I-594
Morris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 12:42   #17
9mm +p+
Senior Member
 
9mm +p+'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KS
Posts: 2,419
Yet another reason to find older Glocks...
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum
9mm +p+ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 14:10   #18
SJ 40
Senior Member
 
SJ 40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 6,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mm +p+ View Post
Yet another reason to find older Glocks...
I can't won't argue that. SJ 40
SJ 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 14:59   #19
cowboywannabe
you savvy?
 
cowboywannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: on a planet near you
Posts: 20,542
as long as it doesnt rust......
__________________
with Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana, Nyssa, and Tegan.

Facts are no match against enthusiasm and ignorance...
cowboywannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 17:05   #20
Raleigh Glocker
Senior Member
 
Raleigh Glocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Three Guesses
Posts: 1,142
It's not like Tenifer Glocks are the only pistols that are resistant to rust. If the new Glocks are experiencing spot rusting, then Glock picked the wrong thing to replace Tenifer (if not truly Melonite) or needs to get better at Melonite.

However, I would not care a hoot whether I got a gun finished properly with Tenifer or with Melonite.
__________________
Glock videos and more!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TWANGnBANG
Raleigh Glocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 17:20   #21
M 7
Senior Member
 
M 7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mm +p+ View Post
Yet another reason to find older Glocks...
Makes me glad I've got mine already- none of which were made any earlier than '06.
__________________
For those who CCW: QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION
M 7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 17:40   #22
R.T.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Does anyone know when Glock stopped using the actual Tenifer process?
Check out this thread: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1412005
__________________
Certified Glock Advanced Armorer
Certified Sig Sauer Armorer
Certified Firearms Instructor
GSSF Member
R.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 18:07   #23
bustedknee
Curmudgeon
 
bustedknee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wythe County, VA
Posts: 4,203
OK.

A short Glock history lesson.

Glock used to make all kinds of products.

When Austria wanted a new army handgun, Gaston Glock decided to get into the gun business. Apparently there wasn't that much money in shower curtain rings and tampon applicators.

The first model pistol was called the model 1. It didn't work.
Models 2-16 had problems but model 17 was perfection.

Then came the other models.

Now, to address the question about finish:
The first finish process Glock used on the model 1 was called Ifer finish but it did not work well and he could see it needed improvement. He called the first process Oneifer.
Changing basic chemicals, he tried it again with Twoifer.
Perfection occurred with his tenth try when he used good old fashioned sugar as the active ingredient, He named it Tenifer.

When Glock opened his plant in the USA the Federal Government (the FDA) would not allow him to use the main active ingredient (sugar) in the process. After several years he finally reached Glock perfection once again by using Splenda in the process. It is now called Elevenifer. Nitride for short.


Don't even ask me how I know this, but Gaston's Mom vacations in Wythe County a couple times a year and I take her catfishing on Claytor Lake.
__________________
"I am old, sick, and tired of living. If you feel the need to mess with me, go right ahead." My Uncle, with his hand on his pistol, talking to a troublemaker. 2-13-1935 -- 2-1-2013

Last edited by bustedknee; 10-06-2012 at 10:16..
bustedknee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 18:09   #24
DirtyDan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.T. View Post
I had already seen that thread, but found nothing real definitive. I even emailed the source(lynn freshly) listed on page two about where he got his info and he stated ...

"The information came from my boss at Glock Professional. It is my understanding now that 2007 was the start of the switch from Tennifer to Nitration."

Another Glock Inc.CS rep told me today that a total across the board of all calibers switch from Tenifer to the new process took place in mid 2011. I guess it's possible and/or likely there was earlier use of the new process, but I can't imagine it really being before 2010.He also said my July 2009 G26 with the Black Slide and Grey barrel would have Tenifer under both finishes.
Some may think this topic is redundant, useless or flat out annoying, but the Tenifer and it's performance history was a big selling point for me.The newer metal treatment although very similar and/or in the same general classification as Tenifer just doesn't seem like it's performing as well based on what I'm reading on various forums. I'm not sure if it's possible to get the real answer of when the switch was made or if/ how many early models where sent out with the newer metal treatment short getting the information from records directly from Austria.
I will personally stick to buying older Glocks(pre-2010)for now to be on the safe side.

DirtyDan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 18:53   #25
SJ 40
Senior Member
 
SJ 40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 6,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
I had already seen that thread, but found nothing real definitive. I even emailed the source(lynn freshly) listed on page two about where he got his info and he stated ...

"The information came from my boss at Glock Professional. It is my understanding now that 2007 was the start of the switch from Tennifer to Nitration."

Another Glock Inc.CS rep told me today that a total across the board of all calibers switch from Tenifer to the new process took place in mid 2011. I guess it's possible and/or likely there was earlier use of the new process, but I can't imagine it really being before 2010.He also said my July 2009 G26 with the Black Slide and Grey barrel would have Tenifer under both finishes.
Some may think this topic is redundant, useless or flat out annoying, but the Tenifer and it's performance history was a big selling point for me.The newer metal treatment although very similar and/or in the same general classification as Tenifer just doesn't seem like it's performing as well based on what I'm reading on various forums. I'm not sure if it's possible to get the real answer of when the switch was made or if/ how many early models where sent out with the newer metal treatment short getting the information from records directly from Austria.
I will personally stick to buying older Glocks(pre-2010)for now to be on the safe side.
This is just me but I prefer even earlier than that,pre 2007 to avoid other cost cutting,performance measures taken by Glock. YMMV SJ 40

Last edited by SJ 40; 10-05-2012 at 18:54.. Reason: spelling
SJ 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:43.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,114
353 Members
761 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42