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Old 10-04-2012, 02:42   #26
dusty_dragon
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thanks a lot, SJ 40

for the tooth-pick-method:
does the trigger has to be in the fired or unfired position, if you don't wanna disassemble the whole thing?
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:03   #27
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Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post
I have never understood the Glock safety trigger concept. It is designed so that you can't pull the trigger unless you pull the trigger. Makes no sense to me.

OK, you can't pull just one side of the trigger, and this might save someone getting it caught in clothing or something. I wonder if it has ever done any good.

What is the thought process really?
The Glock trigger safety is widely misunderstood. It is in fact one of three drop safeties. Without it, if the pistol was dropped on the rear of the slide the acceleration could make the trigger bar heavy enough to release the firing pin and fire the pistol as though the trigger had been pulled. In the same direction of acceleration, the trigger safety is ballanced about its mid point pivot and so is unaffected and continues to block the weight of the trigger bar, thus preventing the pistol from firing.

The trigger safety has no function or design intention to prevent the trigger being pulled back by anything -finger, jacket toggle, shirt and so on - that is pressing against the trigger except in the rare event that something is pressing just against the trigger without pressing on the trigger safety.

English
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:50   #28
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Originally Posted by English View Post
The Glock trigger safety is widely misunderstood. It is in fact one of three drop safeties. Without it, if the pistol was dropped on the rear of the slide the acceleration could make the trigger bar heavy enough to release the firing pin and fire the pistol as though the trigger had been pulled. In the same direction of acceleration, the trigger safety is ballanced about its mid point pivot and so is unaffected and continues to block the weight of the trigger bar, thus preventing the pistol from firing.
That's an interesting idea, and it makes mechanical sense. I really wonder, though, how realistic it is. Given how much pressure it takes to pull the trigger (overcoming the striker spring at its most compressed, compressing the striker block plunger against its spring, and the friction of the sear sliding off the striker under tension) and given the fairly small mass of the stamped trigger bar, could the sear actually be released this way even if the gun were to achieve terminal velocity and land squarely on the back of the slide on a concrete surface? Has it ever been tried? Or is it a lawyer mandated design feature to satisfy some import requirement or an imagined legal scenario?

I'm almost tempted to go down and see if I can get the sear to release by pounding the back of the slide on my workbench with the trigger safety taped out of the way and (of course) the gun unloaded. But I'd rather not abuse my gun that way.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:06   #29
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Originally Posted by English View Post
The Glock trigger safety is widely misunderstood. It is in fact one of three drop safeties. Without it, if the pistol was dropped on the rear of the slide the acceleration could make the trigger bar heavy enough to release the firing pin and fire the pistol as though the trigger had been pulled. In the same direction of acceleration, the trigger safety is ballanced about its mid point pivot and so is unaffected and continues to block the weight of the trigger bar, thus preventing the pistol from firing.

The trigger safety has no function or design intention to prevent the trigger being pulled back by anything -finger, jacket toggle, shirt and so on - that is pressing against the trigger except in the rare event that something is pressing just against the trigger without pressing on the trigger safety.

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Old 10-04-2012, 08:17   #30
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Wasn't there a video posted a short while back showing that the Glock would discharge every time the guy dropped it squarely on the back end of the slide or the backside of the grip I don't remember which.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:32   #31
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Originally Posted by dusty_dragon View Post
thanks a lot, SJ 40

for the tooth-pick-method:
does the trigger has to be in the fired or unfired position, if you don't wanna disassemble the whole thing?
Unfired,final sanding is easier in the fired position.

SJ 40

Last edited by SJ 40; 10-04-2012 at 09:37.. Reason: add
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:38   #32
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Originally Posted by English View Post
The Glock trigger safety is widely misunderstood. It is in fact one of three drop safeties. Without it, if the pistol was dropped on the rear of the slide the acceleration could make the trigger bar heavy enough to release the firing pin and fire the pistol as though the trigger had been pulled. In the same direction of acceleration, the trigger safety is ballanced about its mid point pivot and so is unaffected and continues to block the weight of the trigger bar, thus preventing the pistol from firing.

The trigger safety has no function or design intention to prevent the trigger being pulled back by anything -finger, jacket toggle, shirt and so on - that is pressing against the trigger except in the rare event that something is pressing just against the trigger without pressing on the trigger safety.

English
Well, being a curious sort I just had to know. I took my Glock 19 Gen 4 down into the shop, taped the trigger safety to disable it, checked 5 times to make sure it was empty, set the trigger, and whacked the back of the slide with a mallet (rubber face on one side, plastic face on the other). I tried several times. To my surprise, if I hit it hard enough with the plastic face of the mallet I was able to get the trigger to pull and striker to fall. I got it to do it several times.

I consider myself educated. Yes, the Glock trigger safety is needed and is good design. Thank you, English, for correcting me on this.

As a side note, and more relevant to this thread, I would never modify the trigger safety or any other safety on any gun, especially one I keep in the nightstand or carry. Even if I thought the safety was a total waste (which up until a few minutes ago I did), I still would not touch it. I would be too concerned about legal issues in case of an AD or even an intentional self defense shooting. Even if it were just a range gun or competition gun I wouldn't do it. You can have an AD at the range or in competition as well as anywhere else. Even knowing that what is being discussed here will not affect the function of the trigger safety, and I do believe that, I still wouldn't do it. Once you have made any modification to a safety mechanism the deed is done, and you have given some slimy lawyer all he/she needs to crucify you.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:01   #33
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Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post
Well, being a curious sort I just had to know. I took my Glock 19 Gen 4 down into the shop, taped the trigger safety to disable it, checked 5 times to make sure it was empty, set the trigger, and whacked the back of the slide with a mallet (rubber face on one side, plastic face on the other). I tried several times. To my surprise, if I hit it hard enough with the plastic face of the mallet I was able to get the trigger to pull and striker to fall. I got it to do it several times.

I consider myself educated. Yes, the Glock trigger safety is needed and is good design. Thank you, English, for correcting me on this.

As a side note, and more relevant to this thread, I would never modify the trigger safety or any other safety on any gun, especially one I keep in the nightstand or carry. Even if I thought the safety was a total waste (which up until a few minutes ago I did), I still would not touch it. I would be too concerned about legal issues in case of an AD or even an intentional self defense shooting. Even if it were just a range gun or competition gun I wouldn't do it. You can have an AD at the range or in competition as well as anywhere else. Even knowing that what is being discussed here will not affect the function of the trigger safety, and I do believe that, I still wouldn't do it. Once you have made any modification to a safety mechanism the deed is done, and you have given some slimy lawyer all he/she needs to crucify you.
Gaston is not so silly after all. Opened your eyes didnít it. I wonder which engineer dropped the prototype and shot a hole in the ceiling.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:12   #34
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I'm in the minority here but I think the firing pin safety is pure genius. I even prefer to have it on a 1911.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:16   #35
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Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post
Well, being a curious sort I just had to know. I took my Glock 19 Gen 4 down into the shop, taped the trigger safety to disable it, checked 5 times to make sure it was empty, set the trigger, and whacked the back of the slide with a mallet (rubber face on one side, plastic face on the other). I tried several times. To my surprise, if I hit it hard enough with the plastic face of the mallet I was able to get the trigger to pull and striker to fall. I got it to do it several times.

I consider myself educated. Yes, the Glock trigger safety is needed and is good design. Thank you, English, for correcting me on this.

As a side note, and more relevant to this thread, I would never modify the trigger safety or any other safety on any gun, especially one I keep in the nightstand or carry. Even if I thought the safety was a total waste (which up until a few minutes ago I did), I still would not touch it. I would be too concerned about legal issues in case of an AD or even an intentional self defense shooting. Even if it were just a range gun or competition gun I wouldn't do it. You can have an AD at the range or in competition as well as anywhere else. Even knowing that what is being discussed here will not affect the function of the trigger safety, and I do believe that, I still wouldn't do it. Once you have made any modification to a safety mechanism the deed is done, and you have given some slimy lawyer all he/she needs to crucify you.
If done correctly you are not changing the safety or function of it in any way. It still works as designed all one is doing is cleaning off the moulding flash and sprue,which if the factory cared more than just get the units out the door the trigger safety wouldn't have in the first place. SJ 40
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:41   #36
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thanks for the information, SJ 40

i also think, if done correctly, the sanding is absolutely no issue and the trigger safety is not unsafer at all and functions to 100% like ment to be. you just tune the shape, not the function
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:04   #37
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If done correctly you are not changing the safety or function of it in any way. It still works as designed all one is doing is cleaning off the moulding flash and sprue,which if the factory cared more than just get the units out the door the trigger safety wouldn't have in the first place. SJ 40
I already said that I understand and believe that what is being described here will not affect the function of the safety or make it less safe. That wasn't really my point.

SCUMBAG LAWYER: Mr. SJ, did you or did you not modify in any way the trigger safety on your Glock pistol?

SJ: Yes sir, but I only took off enough material to deburr the safety and make it more comfortable to shoot.

SCUMBAG LAWYER: And what makes you so certain that what you did in irresponsibly removing material from the Glock designed and manufactured safety mechanism would not affect its function?

SJ: Well, it's well known and has been thoroughly discussed on the Internet forum I participate in. Other than that, I thought about it and I couldn't see the harm.....

And so on. Unless you're a Glock engineer you're not going to win.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:14   #38
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i never thought of it before. i have to check when i get home.

thanks for starting this thread.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:29   #39
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I already said that I understand and believe that what is being described here will not affect the function of the safety or make it less safe. That wasn't really my point.

SCUMBAG LAWYER: Mr. SJ, did you or did you not modify in any way the trigger safety on your Glock pistol?

SJ: Yes sir, but I only took off enough material to deburr the safety and make it more comfortable to shoot.

SCUMBAG LAWYER: And what makes you so certain that what you did in irresponsibly removing material from the Glock designed and manufactured safety mechanism would not affect its function?

SJ: Because I deliberately and with full intent aimed my pistol at the center of your expired clientís chest and fired two rounds in defense of my life......
I know what you are getting at dhgeyer, but could not resist.
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Old 10-04-2012, 13:16   #40
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Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post
I already said that I understand and believe that what is being described here will not affect the function of the safety or make it less safe. That wasn't really my point.

SCUMBAG LAWYER: Mr. SJ, did you or did you not modify in any way the trigger safety on your Glock pistol?

SJ: Yes sir, but I only took off enough material to deburr the safety and make it more comfortable to shoot.

SCUMBAG LAWYER: And what makes you so certain that what you did in irresponsibly removing material from the Glock designed and manufactured safety mechanism would not affect its function?

SJ: Well, it's well known and has been thoroughly discussed on the Internet forum I participate in. Other than that, I thought about it and I couldn't see the harm.....

And so on. Unless you're a Glock engineer you're not going to win.
Wether some one undercuts their trigger guard,stipples their gun has the slide front serrated,installs night sights, shaves the parting line off their trigger is up to them. That is a decision each one has to make,you know that thing called free choice. SJ 40
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Old 10-04-2012, 13:54   #41
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I would depress it and file off the part still sticking up above the rest of the troger.
This is exactly what I did with my first G17. Trigger hurt my finger just after a couple of shots. The second G17 I bought used, and it has never bothered me.

In the photo below, you can see a little ramp like place in the trigger. That shows how much I took off. When the trigger is all the way back, the safety is flush with the trigger. Pain went away. I did it with a Dremel, and was very careful about it.

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Old 10-04-2012, 15:25   #42
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nice pic, thanks buddy
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Old 10-04-2012, 16:13   #43
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Wether some one undercuts their trigger guard,stipples their gun has the slide front serrated,installs night sights, shaves the parting line off their trigger is up to them. That is a decision each one has to make,you know that thing called free choice. SJ 40
I wouldn't dispute that for one second. I just said it's something I wouldn't do. For the record I don't think it's a good idea. But you are absolutely right: your gun, your choice. Also for the record, I don't think any of the other mods you listed above fall into the same category as a mod to one of the safety devices. Just my opinion. People do post opinions here. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.
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Old 10-04-2012, 16:38   #44
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I wouldn't dispute that for one second. I just said it's something I wouldn't do. For the record I don't think it's a good idea. But you are absolutely right: your gun, your choice. Also for the record, I don't think any of the other mods you listed above fall into the same category as a mod to one of the safety devices. Just my opinion. People do post opinions here. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.
All things that can make a gun more user friendly. SJ 40
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Old 10-04-2012, 17:42   #45
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For personal use I grind all my serrated triggers smooth and take enough off of the bar in the middle of the trigger that it is flush with the trigger when I pull it. I would imagine that Glock didn't intend for it to protrude when the trigger is depressed but tolerance wise it's safer to err on the "long" side rather than the possibility of the trigger safety being too short and the pistol not firing.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:10   #46
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What is this Glock 19 used for? I doubt that it is for competition because it is a Glock 19, so why the really low trigger weight? It can't be for carry because of the lack of concern over the safety. Well I can't say what the hell it might be used for, but whatever it is, i'll bet dollars to donuts there will be a negligent discharge in the future.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:21   #47
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Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post
I wouldn't dispute that for one second. I just said it's something I wouldn't do. For the record I don't think it's a good idea. But you are absolutely right: your gun, your choice. Also for the record, I don't think any of the other mods you listed above fall into the same category as a mod to one of the safety devices. Just my opinion. People do post opinions here. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.
I agree on all points.
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Old 10-07-2012, 03:05   #48
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Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post
Well, being a curious sort I just had to know. I took my Glock 19 Gen 4 down into the shop, taped the trigger safety to disable it, checked 5 times to make sure it was empty, set the trigger, and whacked the back of the slide with a mallet (rubber face on one side, plastic face on the other). I tried several times. To my surprise, if I hit it hard enough with the plastic face of the mallet I was able to get the trigger to pull and striker to fall. I got it to do it several times.

I consider myself educated. Yes, the Glock trigger safety is needed and is good design. Thank you, English, for correcting me on this.

As a side note, and more relevant to this thread, I would never modify the trigger safety or any other safety on any gun, especially one I keep in the nightstand or carry. Even if I thought the safety was a total waste (which up until a few minutes ago I did), I still would not touch it. I would be too concerned about legal issues in case of an AD or even an intentional self defense shooting. Even if it were just a range gun or competition gun I wouldn't do it. You can have an AD at the range or in competition as well as anywhere else. Even knowing that what is being discussed here will not affect the function of the trigger safety, and I do believe that, I still wouldn't do it. Once you have made any modification to a safety mechanism the deed is done, and you have given some slimy lawyer all he/she needs to crucify you.
Reasoning is great but experiment is final! Thanks for making the effort.

A further thought on this is that an impact might create, say, a 300G acceleration. That will push the trigger bar backwards with a lot of force. It will also push the firing pin backwards at the same time and so will reduce the friction between the cruciform and te firing pin lug. It is nice to know this all really does work.

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Old 01-12-2013, 05:29   #49
E the B
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MNBud and English, Wow. That was easy and it turned out exactly how I wanted it. What a treat.

Thanks.
Plus One for all the advice and kudos on this thread. My G19 Gen 4 now has a trigger safety that pulls flush to the trigger. I used several long, slow swipes with a round file, then finished it with 400 and 600 grit paper.

The trigger is soooo much more comfortable now, and works just like before.

Thanks to all!

Last edited by E the B; 01-12-2013 at 05:30.. Reason: My sloppy spelling
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:23   #50
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congrats E the B

how did you toggle the trigger safety lever at the exact position, so that it didn't always dive inside the triggerblade when touching with the round file / grit paper?
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