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Old 10-04-2012, 20:51   #1
Chris Brines
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Home Defense Question...what would you do if....

So...I was talking with a like minded friend on Facebook. I've been meeting like an unbelievable amount of VERY pro gun people on FB lately, so much so that I haven't even been in gun forums much. But anyway, me and these folks were sitting around talking about how much we just don't give a damn what the anti gunners say about us having guns to protect ourselves with, or what laws they get passed. There are bad people in this world, and if it is between us and them, or them and a member of our family, they're going on a one way trip....to wherever land.

And I told the lady about a close call I had in the city I live in (not the only one), and said I live in a major city and that's just how it is in the big city, things happen, you have to watch your back, and be prepared because life around here is anything but predictable. Then I said but it doesn't matter..because bad things can happen literally any time, any place, regardless of location, population size, or gun laws.

So she told me that a few years ago, one of her girlfriends who lives down the street (in a VERY small town, and rural area), was in the bathroom of her house or something, and her little girl was in the living room. Well out of nowhere some piece of garbage in human form busts through her backdoor, grabs her small daughter, and takes off running out of the house with her. Well....momma had a shotgun.

She ran out after the fool and told him if he didn't put her girl down he was going bye bye. Needless to say, the guy was convinced. He put her down.

I told her at first...ya know....if a shotgun is all you have, and a kidnapper (pedophile obviously, and would be child rapist/killer) has your child....do what you gotta do, but truthfully a shotgun might not be the best weapon for that scenario, because of the danger of stray pellets hitting the little girl if she had to shoot. I told her a revolver or semi might be best.

Then I stopped and was like...ya know, on 2nd thought...maybe a shotgun would be PERFECT for a scenario like that....if you shoot at their legs, made SURE you aim low. Then you'd DEFINITELY hit the fool, and not endanger the child.

So we pondered on that for a bit and I decided this would be the best place to get a general consensus on the best weapon for that type of nightmare scenario. Because I don't know about you guys, but I have at a pretty close reach a shotgun, a 9mm and maybe even a 357 magnum. But maybe not..who knows?

Anyway....I'd like to hear what most people say about this, because that is an interesting question, that obviously I pray nobody has to experience, but it might be helpful to just prepare for the worst, yet hope for the best.

Last edited by Chris Brines; 10-04-2012 at 21:18..
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Old 10-04-2012, 21:41   #2
bac1023
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I'm not sure how you could shoot the BG with anything while he was carrying a child.

Especially while you both were running
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:03   #3
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I use 12 GA 2 and 3/4 inch with flitecontrol wad 00 buck. It does keep the 9 pellets somewhat close. No I would not take the shot if very far away.
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:08   #4
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If he was running carrying the child you would have a clear shot on his to his back
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:09   #5
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Rarely will you have the luxury of choosing where on the person, to shoot an individual, when and if you/they are moving.
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:14   #6
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well the girls quite small by the sounds of it. so in all likelihood you could shoot his knee. which i would love to do because then i could say. " tell all your friends in jail ' i use to be a child abductor. then i took a shotgun blast to the knee"
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:23   #7
Chris Brines
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well the girls quite small by the sounds of it. so in all likelihood you could shoot his knee. which i would love to do because then i could say. " tell all your friends in jail ' i use to be a child abductor. then i took a shotgun blast to the knee"
Now THAT...would bring me a sense of joy in the midst of a terrifying moment.
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:23   #8
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The lady grabbed what she had at the time, and the scum complied. End of story. Who am I to question a good outcome?
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Old 10-04-2012, 23:00   #9
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I can never answer a "what would you do" question as I have to be in a situation to fully comprehend, then respond.
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Old 10-04-2012, 23:14   #10
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I can never answer a "what would you do" question as I have to be in a situation to fully comprehend, then respond.
Yeah, I mean of course. My main reason for this post would be for those with multiple years of experience with guns to tell me if a shotgun would be a better weapon than a pistol or rifle to aim at a guy who had your child in their arms. Main concern being safety of the child. Believe me, if all I had was a shotgun, that wouldn't matter, but it's just something I wondered.

Either one of two things...a shotgun would be PERFECT for that scenario, or it would be the worst choice. I'd say the one who said they wouldn't take the shot if they were at a distance (I'm thinking 20 yards would be the max), but then again I probably wouldn't do it with a pistol either.

And to the one who suggested shooting them in the back I don't think that would be a great idea. Buckshot or a typical pistol round would likely go through them and hit the kid.
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Old 10-04-2012, 23:32   #11
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:24   #12
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i don't know about the lady in your story bu i'm pretty sure im in decent enough shape to out sprint a guy trying to run while carrying a struggling child.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:34   #13
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Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
I'm not sure how you could shot the BG with anything while he was carrying a child.

^^^This.

If a kidnapper had my son/daughter/niece/nephew in their arms and I had a shotgun trained on the scumbag, I'm making empty threats to shoot. Convincing threats, but empty.

My goal is to slow down the kidnapper enough so that they do not disappear from my sight. Slow down the escape. Give me a few precious seconds to get out of reactive tunnel vision mode, and into assessment mode.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:48   #14
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The woman grabbed what was at hand during that particular moment.I don't think you could say what was "the best" weapon to use during any specific incident. You don't always have time to grab what may be ideal during times of stress. You grab what is on hand and do the best with what you got.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:41   #15
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Shooting the kidnapper while he is holding the child is probably about as dangerous as letting the kidnapper leave intact with the child. Sadly the survival rate of the child goes downhill substantially either way. The shotgun may not be the ideal choice.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:54   #16
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An old man chased me and my dad around town a few months ago and I was armed, because I am always armed, and fully prepared to shoot him if he started to get violent. I think that is the key, to BE PREPARED to act if you need to, because you don't know how the situation will play out until you are living it.

I was very calm and collected, and I can honestly say that I was very proud of myself for being so calm and in control of the situation. Sounds like the "momma" was also in control and I applaud her for that.

As far as the shotgun question, I think it's a bad idea to shoot someone while they are carrying a child. JMHO

Here in FL I could shoot him in the back with no legal ramifications because we can legally use deadly force to prevent a "forcible felony", such as kidnapping. Would it be safe to take that shot? Probably not! Being a guy though I know that I would at least tackle him and try to scare him off.

Who knows? It hasn't happened to me....and I hope it NEVER does!!!!

My children are my world!


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Old 10-05-2012, 07:06   #17
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I don't know what kind of shape this lady is in, but for me, that would be a foot chase and tackle scenerio. I'm assuming she couldn't tackle the "bad guy." So, for her any kind of gun and a threat to use it sounds like a good option.

I know foot chase and tackle might not sound appealing, but that is one of the reasons I study and train using Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (BJJ) techniques, as taught by a Navy SEAL (thanks Sensei Mull, if you're out there). Most fights end up on the ground, and if you're on the ground, you want to learn what to do. It takes a lot of practice to get good at it, but you can learn the basics pretty quickly.

But for the safety of the kid, shots fired would really be a last resort.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:24   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
I'm not sure how you could shot the BG with anything while he was carrying a child.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaPes View Post
^^^This.

If a kidnapper had my son/daughter/niece/nephew in their arms and I had a shotgun trained on the scumbag, I'm making empty threats to shoot. Convincing threats, but empty.

My goal is to slow down the kidnapper enough so that they do not disappear from my sight. Slow down the escape. Give me a few precious seconds to get out of reactive tunnel vision mode, and into assessment mode.


I'm pretty sure he has knees/feet.....


I'd also much rather have my kid go to the hospital to remove a errant pellet or two, than the morgue because he got away.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:30   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Gun_Guru View Post
An old man chased me and my dad around town a few months ago and I was armed, because I am always armed, and fully prepared to shoot him if he started to get violent. I think that is the key, to BE PREPARED to act if you need to, because you don't know how the situation will play out until you are living it.

I was very calm and collected, and I can honestly say that I was very proud of myself for being so calm and in control of the situation. Sounds like the "momma" was also in control and I applaud her for that.

As far as the shotgun question, I think it's a bad idea to shoot someone while they are carrying a child. JMHO

Here in FL I could shoot him in the back with no legal ramifications because we can legally use deadly force to prevent a "forcible felony", such as kidnapping. Would it be safe to take that shot? Probably not! Being a guy though I know that I would at least tackle him and try to scare him off.

Who knows? It hasn't happened to me....and I hope it NEVER does!!!!

My children are my world!


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Why didn't you just hit him with his walker?
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:43   #20
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I'm not commenting on the scenario, but shotguns only really shine in two roles:

1) Breaching
2) Non-lethal applications


...oh, and ducks and clays and that stuff too.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:07   #21
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Why didn't you just hit him with his walker?
I remember that story. The guy was following their car with his car. It wasn't a foot chase.
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Old 10-05-2012, 14:42   #22
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The question is not really would you shoot, it's what weapon is best, regardless of availability.
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Rarely will you have the luxury of choosing where on the person, to shoot an individual, when and if you/they are moving.
Agreed. That said, I think the shotgun is best simply on the basis of increasing hit probability in this scenario. On the other hand, a handgun with a good self-defense round stands a better chance of actually stopping the bad guy, but requires the shooter to have the presence of mind to place his/her shots rather than just fire wildly at the fleeing felon.
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Old 10-05-2012, 14:44   #23
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Quote:
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The question is not really would you shoot, it's what weapon is best, regardless of availability.
Agreed. That said, I think the shotgun is best simply on the basis of increasing hit probability in this scenario. On the other hand, a handgun with a good self-defense round stands a better chance of actually stopping the bad guy, but requires the shooter to have the presence of mind to place his/her shots rather than just fire wildly at the fleeing felon.

Unless I'm mis-reading that, there is no way a handgun "stands a better chance of stopping the bad guy" than a shotgun.


The problem, in this scenario, is that if you shoot them in the back, you stand a very good chance of penetrating the chest of the perp, and wounding the child being carried.
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Old 10-05-2012, 16:44   #24
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I'd take the shot. It's a tragic thought but I would rather a stray bullet hit my baby than have her raped for days before being murdered by a sicko.
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Old 10-05-2012, 22:09   #25
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I'd take the shot. It's a tragic thought but I would rather a stray bullet hit my baby than have her raped for days before being murdered by a sicko.
That's how I come down on it. Could I actually do it if I ended up in the situation? Hope to never find out. I'd like to think I love my kids enough to take that risk, rather than wuss out and let a predator walk away with them to take them to some gawd-awful torture and painful death.
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