GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2012, 08:20   #1
DoctaGlockta
Senior Member
 
DoctaGlockta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: FEMA Region IV
Posts: 2,109
Posting old magazine articles allowed?

I recently purchased an old rifle mag (1980) off the interwebs to read a story by C.E. Harris and get some reloading data. I don't often see magazine articles posted here so I'm assuming this is a no no.

I think the info may be helpful to some here and generate some discussion.
__________________
"Up at Camp David, we do skeet shooting all the time."

- Barack Hussein Obama
DoctaGlockta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 08:55   #2
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,823
There would be copyright issues related to republishing. I would think you could quote a bit of the text with attribution but an image copy would probably be over the line.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 16:30   #3
shotgunred
reloading nut
 
shotgunred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: N W Washington
Posts: 7,616
Post a link to the article if you can.
__________________
When dealing with Democrats, let us remember we are
not dealing with creatures of logic. We are dealing with
creatures of emotion, creatures bristling with prejudices
and motivated by pride and vanity.
shotgunred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:39   #4
DoctaGlockta
Senior Member
 
DoctaGlockta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: FEMA Region IV
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunred View Post
Post a link to the article if you can.
I searched and searched for it but could not find.

That is why I purchased an old physical copy.
__________________
"Up at Camp David, we do skeet shooting all the time."

- Barack Hussein Obama
DoctaGlockta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 18:34   #5
norton
Senior Member
 
norton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Land of Lincoln, the growing years
Posts: 6,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctaGlockta View Post
I recently purchased an old rifle mag (1980) off the interwebs to read a story by C.E. Harris and get some reloading data. I don't often see magazine articles posted here so I'm assuming this is a no no.

I think the info may be helpful to some here and generate some discussion.
You probably already know this, but for any newbs out there-
Don't use old reloading data. Its ok to check it for comparision but only up to date info should be used.
__________________
Tinker to Evers to Chance.
norton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 11:47   #6
VN350X10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: McHenry, IL
Posts: 8,101
Old data is fine, if you also have old stocks of powder.
Old Unique is different from new Unique, the newer IMR powders differ frrom the old DuPont IMR'S, etc.

The big problem is having older calibers that are no longer covered in new manuals, caution needs to be used in loading from old manuals with newer powders.
The only saving grace is the fact that the newer formulations of long time powders tend to be more consistant, lot to lot, than were earlier versions.

load safe !

uncle albert
__________________
NRA Endowment Member, NRA Certified Instructor for Rifle & Pistol, Illinois State Rifle Assn. - Life Member, GSSF Life Member,N.R.O.I. level I, IL Glockers #34
G: 19,20(x2),21,22,23(x2),24,27,29,34,35 & 36 (still counting)
USPSA, IDPA,
VN350X10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 13:19   #7
DoctaGlockta
Senior Member
 
DoctaGlockta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: FEMA Region IV
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by VN350X10 View Post
Old data is fine, if you also have old stocks of powder.
Old Unique is different from new Unique, the newer IMR powders differ frrom the old DuPont IMR'S, etc.

The big problem is having older calibers that are no longer covered in new manuals, caution needs to be used in loading from old manuals with newer powders.
The only saving grace is the fact that the newer formulations of long time powders tend to be more consistant, lot to lot, than were earlier versions.

load safe !

uncle albert
Funny you mention Unique. The article talks about using Unique in various rifle rounds.
__________________
"Up at Camp David, we do skeet shooting all the time."

- Barack Hussein Obama
DoctaGlockta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 15:41   #8
WiskyT
Malcontent
 
WiskyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by VN350X10 View Post
Old data is fine, if you also have old stocks of powder.
Old Unique is different from new Unique, the newer IMR powders differ frrom the old DuPont IMR'S, etc.

The big problem is having older calibers that are no longer covered in new manuals, caution needs to be used in loading from old manuals with newer powders.
The only saving grace is the fact that the newer formulations of long time powders tend to be more consistant, lot to lot, than were earlier versions.

load safe !

uncle albert
I disagree. I've loaded Unique for a few decades and notice no practical difference in it. Do you really think the manufacturers would produce a faster powder and give it the same name? Wouldn't Alliant caution us not to use old data with "new" Unique? They still have Unique that is over 100 years old that they use to ensure that current batches are close enough to it to be called "same". Also, I have never seen any printed information to use only new data.Even new manuals don't tell you to disregard older manuals, or to replace the new manual when a new edition comes out.

New data is suck data. Much of the data out there won't even cycle the slides on guns because it is so watered down. I've given away my newer manuals and don't even consider a manual less than 20 years old worth the paper it's printed on.
__________________
Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippie and hippies suck.
Eric Cartman


"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."-General Curtis E. LeMay
WiskyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 15:43   #9
WiskyT
Malcontent
 
WiskyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by norton View Post
You probably already know this, but for any newbs out there-
Don't use old reloading data. Its ok to check it for comparision but only up to date info should be used.
If the data is from C.E. Harris, it is Gospel.
__________________
Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippie and hippies suck.
Eric Cartman


"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."-General Curtis E. LeMay
WiskyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 15:46   #10
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,823
The Accurate and Ramshot pamphlets both have a note that says
Quote:
THIS DATA SUPERSEDES ALL PREVIOUS ACCURATE LOAD DATA. Always use the latest load data
or
Quote:
THIS DATA SUPERSEDES ALL PREVIOUS RAMSHOT LOAD DATA. Always use the latest load data
I don't know if the data has changed from previous editions but the manufacturers are sure setting the stage for variations.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 15:51   #11
WiskyT
Malcontent
 
WiskyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
The Accurate and Ramshot pamphlets both have a note that says

or


I don't know if the data has changed from previous editions but the manufacturers are sure setting the stage for variations.

Richard
That makes sense, I wouldn't trust any of their data anyway. AA powder varies so much that guys like C4W use a chrono to figure out their loads every time they buy a new can.
__________________
Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippie and hippies suck.
Eric Cartman


"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."-General Curtis E. LeMay
WiskyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 16:27   #12
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,823
I don't use any Accurate powders but everybody seem to love TAC for .223 or .308 and TAC is made by Ramshot.

I bought an 8# can of TAC so I better like it! I have loaded some 55 gr .223 and the powder seems to work very well. I mostly shoot my AR-15 for effect. The trigger is too ugly to even bother trying to get groups. Maybe someday...

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 16:42   #13
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 6,728
Ramshot and Accurate (both divisions of Western Powder) don't MAKE anything. They are packagers and distributors.
TAC is made in Belgium and I think many if not all the other Ramshots are, too.
AA has contracted powder from all over the world but is now buying American, undoubtedly from St Marks, the only US maker of Ball powders. I really want current AA data because the powders have changed while the labels have not.

C.E. Harris, mentioned above, says the big shift in IMR powders was when production shifted from the US to Canada in 1976.
__________________
I have a few facts and a lot of opinions.
Jim Watson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 18:01   #14
vafish
Senior Member
 
vafish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Commonwealth of Virginia
Posts: 24,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
If the data is from C.E. Harris, it is Gospel.
Is he still around?

I don't recall reading anything from him I'm a long time.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
__________________
"If your plan is for one year, plant rice.
If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years,
educate children." -- Confucius
vafish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 19:06   #15
WiskyT
Malcontent
 
WiskyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
Is he still around?

I don't recall reading anything from him I'm a long time.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
I posted a question that he answered on a different board probably 3 years ago, so as far as I know he is still around.
__________________
Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippie and hippies suck.
Eric Cartman


"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."-General Curtis E. LeMay
WiskyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 20:32   #16
VN350X10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: McHenry, IL
Posts: 8,101
AA powders are notorious for changing....to the point of being dangerous!
AA5 has been made in South Africa, Israel & the Czech Republic that I know of (and have had cans so marked) and the data, while fine if loaded by weight, can get crazy if you are using a volume measure & have to change while in the middle of a run. Densities vary by as much as 40% !!
Had this happen while loading 9mm on a Lee press w/Lee measure.
Fortunately, the powder looked different enough in color that it caught my attention.
I had gotten 5 or 6, 1# cans from the SAME SUPPLIER IN THE SAME ORDER. From the 3 different countries mentioned !
I made a vow after that....I no longer use ANY powder from AA !

Just another good reason that I use Vhit powders in most everything now.

Note to WiskyT....

They even BRAG about Unique being "New & Improved" as far as being cleaner. They must have changed something in it.

But I have to agree, a lot of the new data seems to have been written by corporate liars....er... lawyers.

All the more reason to own a good chrono !

uncle albert

Last edited by VN350X10; 10-04-2012 at 20:33.. Reason: spelling again
VN350X10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 06:01   #17
shotgunred
reloading nut
 
shotgunred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: N W Washington
Posts: 7,616
Just start a new thread about what you want to talk about and then just quote the relevant part of the paper.
__________________
When dealing with Democrats, let us remember we are
not dealing with creatures of logic. We are dealing with
creatures of emotion, creatures bristling with prejudices
and motivated by pride and vanity.
shotgunred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 07:06   #18
WiskyT
Malcontent
 
WiskyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by VN350X10 View Post
AA powders are notorious for changing....to the point of being dangerous!
AA5 has been made in South Africa, Israel & the Czech Republic that I know of (and have had cans so marked) and the data, while fine if loaded by weight, can get crazy if you are using a volume measure & have to change while in the middle of a run. Densities vary by as much as 40% !!
Had this happen while loading 9mm on a Lee press w/Lee measure.
Fortunately, the powder looked different enough in color that it caught my attention.
I had gotten 5 or 6, 1# cans from the SAME SUPPLIER IN THE SAME ORDER. From the 3 different countries mentioned !
I made a vow after that....I no longer use ANY powder from AA !

Just another good reason that I use Vhit powders in most everything now.

Note to WiskyT....

They even BRAG about Unique being "New & Improved" as far as being cleaner. They must have changed something in it.

But I have to agree, a lot of the new data seems to have been written by corporate liars....er... lawyers.

All the more reason to own a good chrono !

uncle albert
Yes, they changed the base material (linters?) of Unique from one type of fiber to another so it burns cleaner. I think it is an ancillary benefit of the change to a different production facility rather than a deliberate attempt to make a cleaner burning product based on what I read at the time. Regardless, they went to a lot of trouble to make sure it performed the same as it always had since it would be irresponsible to do otherwise.
__________________
Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippie and hippies suck.
Eric Cartman


"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."-General Curtis E. LeMay
WiskyT is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:04.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 870
190 Members
680 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42