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Old 10-02-2012, 17:47   #1
OctoberRust
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Birdshot OK for badguys?! What the heck?

I do not endorse the opinion in this video. I'm just curious on everyone else's thoughts.....

Me personally, I use 00 buck in my mossberg 500 for HD. The smallest I'd go is number 4 buckshot for defending myself in my house from 2 legged critters.

anyways, gunblast usually seems down to earth, am I missing something here?


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Old 10-02-2012, 17:48   #2
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There was a thread about this awhile back. The only way I support it is with:


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Old 10-02-2012, 18:13   #3
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Quote:
The only way I support it is with:
Or wax slugs. Birdshot is still better than nothing though, just aim for the head.
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Old 10-02-2012, 18:29   #4
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There was a thread about this awhile back. The only way I support it is with:


The lost art of "Cut Shells" - YouTube

Saw that before. interesting stuff, I think I'll stick with the 00 buck myself. If I want to reach 25-70 yards I'll just use a 1 oz slug with highbrass.
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Old 10-02-2012, 18:33   #5
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The first shooting I went to on the job involved 1 guy shooting another using a 20 ga single shot with #6 low brass. Distance was about 15 ft. Check the distances in your home as far as room sizes. The guy was hit just below the ribs in the xyphoid. Cut a jagged hole about the size of a golf ball. Wad was inside him. Found shot next to the spine. DRT. Since then been to several hunting accidents involving bird shot. It kills dead and quick at close range, distances the inside of most homes.
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Old 10-02-2012, 18:53   #6
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Saw that before. interesting stuff, I think I'll stick with the 00 buck myself. If I want to reach 25-70 yards I'll just use a 1 oz slug with highbrass.
Also, just imagine how bad that could jam up the works on a pump or auto if it broke in half while cycling.
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:04   #7
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The first shooting I went to on the job involved 1 guy shooting another using a 20 ga single shot with #6 low brass. Distance was about 15 ft. Check the distances in your home as far as room sizes. The guy was hit just below the ribs in the xyphoid. Cut a jagged hole about the size of a golf ball. Wad was inside him. Found shot next to the spine. DRT. Since then been to several hunting accidents involving bird shot. It kills dead and quick at close range, distances the inside of most homes.
Understandable if you were defending yourself and had a full frontal shot of your attacker/home invader. What about if all you have is a side shot? What if he's taking cover behind your couch and about to throw rounds down range toward you? Then all of a sudden it seems the camp of "limited penetration for liability issues" becomes moot, since the bad guy may be using something that goes through multiple walls, etc.


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Also, just imagine how bad that could jam up the works on a pump or auto if it broke in half while cycling.
Absolutely. I want tried and true if my life depends on it.
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:33   #8
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Absolutely. I want tried and true if my life depends on it.
F'rill. I won't even try it until I get a single shot or pump gun. Guess it's one of those "in a pinch" things. Just be careful on how you cut them.
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:33   #9
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#4 is the "lightest" I've ever seen recommended.
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:41   #10
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Bird shot can mess you up. if its what you got you mine as well.

what i am curious about is that now a days we have heavier then lead shot that gets used a lot for turkeys and waterfowl. any reason we don't see them begin talked about for defensive shotgun ammo?
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:44   #11
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I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, s**t-kickers, Methodists, and the GTDS.
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:47   #12
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I don't want to get shot with birdshot, but that said, I use 00 low recoil buck. I use #4 buck in the 20 ga.
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:54   #13
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Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
Understandable if you were defending yourself and had a full frontal shot of your attacker/home invader. What about if all you have is a side shot? What if he's taking cover behind your couch and about to throw rounds down range toward you? Then all of a sudden it seems the camp of "limited penetration for liability issues" becomes moot, since the bad guy may be using something that goes through multiple walls, etc.
Using your scenario of "what ifs", what if the BG was hiding behind the refrigerator, what if there was a cinder block wall, what if, what if, what if. The world is full of 'what ifs'. I can tell one thing from having BTDT-wore out the t-shirt. No matter what gun you have when it hits the fan you quickly realize 1) yours isn't big enough, 2) you are sure you don't have enough ammo, and 3) the bad guy's gun seems a lot bigger than yours.
My point was don't underestimate bird shot. It will kill you just as dead as a slug and you won't be able to tell the difference. It's not a load I would recommend but I've read too many internet commandos on here and other forums that don't have a clue just how quickly dead bird shot will kill someone.
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Old 10-02-2012, 21:14   #14
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The first shooting I went to on the job involved 1 guy shooting another using a 20 ga single shot with #6 low brass. Distance was about 15 ft. Check the distances in your home as far as room sizes. The guy was hit just below the ribs in the xyphoid. Cut a jagged hole about the size of a golf ball. Wad was inside him. Found shot next to the spine. DRT. Since then been to several hunting accidents involving bird shot. It kills dead and quick at close range, distances the inside of most homes.
Agreed my experience in EMS and Trauma Centers tells me that from room distances birdshot will make a nice rathole wound. Even in the coldest of weather with thick clothing.
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Old 10-02-2012, 21:49   #15
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Next time some guy breaks into my house dressed like a bird I'll be sure and use some bird shot.
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Old 10-02-2012, 22:46   #16
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Next time some guy breaks into my house dressed like a bird I'll be sure and use some bird shot.
so true

Anybody endorsing birdshot for a self-defense load, well no comments.

For every person or story about who died from birdshot and the what-if game. I rather use what's known to work.

here's one story of a survivor

http://www.postbulletin.com/news/sto...php?id=1510186


here's a story of one who didn't

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...dent-shot.html


One was shot in the head by his own SG at muzzle contact or just about.

See the diference?

Now what you really depend on a Shotgun for self-defense?

But who knows, what-if a swarm of birds suddenly attack, than I guess you will be pretty well armed with a shotgun loaded with birdshot
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Old 10-02-2012, 23:17   #17
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Old 10-02-2012, 23:59   #18
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Check out when the block is hit with buckshot at 2:04. Penetration was acceptable by FBI protocol standards 12 inches plus. Birdshot, not so much. No contest.

Check this out. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

Last edited by Marred; 10-03-2012 at 00:12..
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:04   #19
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Using your scenario of "what ifs", what if the BG was hiding behind the refrigerator, what if there was a cinder block wall, what if, what if, what if. The world is full of 'what ifs'. I can tell one thing from having BTDT-wore out the t-shirt. No matter what gun you have when it hits the fan you quickly realize 1) yours isn't big enough, 2) you are sure you don't have enough ammo, and 3) the bad guy's gun seems a lot bigger than yours.
My point was don't underestimate bird shot. It will kill you just as dead as a slug and you won't be able to tell the difference. It's not a load I would recommend but I've read too many internet commandos on here and other forums that don't have a clue just how quickly dead bird shot will kill someone.
Last I checked, unless you spend a few minutes lugging my beast of a fridge out from inside the wall, no one will be hiding behind it. Maybe in it, but then they got bigger problems

My house doesn't have any cinder block walls, so that's fine.

That's fine, I understand birdshot MAY stop a fight in a timely fashion. But if you have the chance to prepare before hand, why not use something a bit more efficient? like #4 or 00? Better to over penetrate slightly, than to under penetrate slightly and not hit any vitals, keeping the BG going.

Sorry if I came off as "birdshot is useless". It's not, but there is better options out there, and that I don't think is disputable....
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:04   #20
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I remember

Gunblast doing a video showing how effective 12ga birdshot is.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:08   #21
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Why would anyone take a risk on its effectiveness when cheap buckshot can be had at almost any walmart?

Last edited by triggerjerk; 10-03-2012 at 09:34..
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:10   #22
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I don't

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Why would anyone take a risk on it's effectiveness when cheap buckshot can be had at almost any walmart?
OO buckshot for me!
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:19   #23
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Knowing you rely on firearms to save your life should a life-or-death situation ever occur would you load your G-19 with a weak FMJ low-velocity round or the round you had the most confidence would end the attack most efficiently?

I don't know why anyone would download his/her shotgun with a less effective round than is currently available.

I have both #1 and #4 buckshot and wouldn't use anything less than #4 for self-defense.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:32   #24
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#6 or even 7-1/2 bird shot is just perfect for 3-4 pound pheasants. Hit 'em in the back flying away at about 20 yards and it will knock them down, but won't tear up the breast meat. About half the time you still have to break their neck.

I have had a pheasant fly straight at me, and at about 7 -10 yards, it pretty much fell apart in midair.

Excellent on 3-4 pound birds.





For 200 pound bad guys? Better than nothing, but very limited range. Just not betting my life on it.

For what the guy in the gunblast vid is talking about... bad guy in the hallway and a concern of overpenetration... I can see his point, but again, it's not for me.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:49   #25
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Pheasant

Now when I consider it, I think that the pheasant is about as big as a humans chest.
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