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Old 10-01-2012, 17:32   #51
ithaca_deerslayer
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Some people can do things with either eye, like me
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Old 10-01-2012, 17:37   #52
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Some people can do things with either eye, like me
Once in a blue moon I come across someone who doesn't seem to have a dominant eye. I give the test repeatedly and try different versions of it and it's like flipping a coin, they go to either eye almost equally. Or, sometimes it seems to change on different days.
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Old 10-01-2012, 17:44   #53
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You do realize that you don't have stereo vision when you only use one eye? That means no depth perception.
I guess you missed the part where moving targets, and surprise/reactive type targets arent, and really never have been an issue.

I understand what youre saying here, but in this case, it hasnt been the issue your eluding to.

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Also, you are training your sons to shoot in a way that will never be available to them if they are on a two-way range.
Im not sure what youre trying to say here.

I only have one son with the issue, by the way, and I havent seen any problems in the way he shoots that would cause him trouble in a stressful, or reactionary type situation (assuming thats where you were going with this). Hes shot this way his whole life now (hes in his late 20's), and it isnt like he just learned how to deal with it. Its completely natural to him now.


Hey, Im not saying your way is wrong, Im just saying what youre trying to say isnt necessarily right, or at least for all people. Ive seen what you say cant work, work perfectly, so I know it does in fact work, and I know there are others who teach this way as well, as its why I went with this method in the first place. If you dont agree with it, fine, dont do it. Do what you think is best. Just dont assume that others cant do what you say they shouldnt be able to, just because thats what you think.
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Old 10-01-2012, 17:48   #54
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I guess you missed the part where moving targets, and surprise/reactive type targets arent, and really never have been an issue.

I understand what youre saying here, but in this case, it hasnt been the issue your eluding to.


Im not sure what youre trying to say here.

I only have one son with the issue, by the way, and I havent seen any problems in the way he shoots that would cause him trouble in a stressful, or reactionary type situation (assuming thats where you were going with this). Hes shot this way his whole life now (hes in his late 20's), and it isnt like he just learned how to deal with it. Its completely natural to him now.


Hey, Im not saying your way is wrong, Im just saying what youre trying to say isnt necessarily right, or at least for all people. Ive seen what you say cant work, work perfectly, so I know it does in fact work, and I know there are others who teach this way as well, as its why I went with this method in the first place. If you dont agree with it, fine, dont do it. Do what you think is best. Just dont assume that others cant do what you say they shouldnt be able to, just because thats what you think.
Polite disagreement is rare on this board, most boards actually. I'll award you the credit for this one
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Old 10-01-2012, 17:51   #55
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Certainly it can be wrong. Take my left foot braking example. Lots of people do it and it's flat out wrong.
I'll make sure to let Michael Schumacher know
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Old 10-01-2012, 17:54   #56
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Once in a blue moon I come across someone who doesn't seem to have a dominant eye. I give the test repeatedly and try different versions of it and it's like flipping a coin, they go to either eye almost equally. Or, sometimes it seems to change on different days.
I knew a guy like that in the Marines. They taught him to shoot right handed then he later learned to shoot left. He could switch right to left with no problem on any firearm.


BTW I am right handed, left eye dominant. I have been a hunter education instructor, BSA and NRA firearms instructor. One of the biggest headaches I deal with are kids who are all screwed up by being forced to shoot reverse dominant.

Teach them to shoot with the dominant eye and in time they could learn to shoot both ways.

That said many shooters shoot different platforms differently after they gain a good level of proficiency. I shoot rifles and shotguns both ways. Rifles slightly better left handed and shotguns slightly better right handed. Hand guns I shoot cross dominant. Right handed, left eyed. I still qualified expert in the Marines.
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Old 10-01-2012, 17:59   #57
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True story. When I was about 7 years old I was starting to try and shoot more with my grandfather and brothers. They kept telling me I had to shoot the way that they did and I have a very hard time being as accurate as them and I often held my head oddly over the rifle stock. I got criticism for this and it discouraged me from shooting. I actually stopped shooting for a couple of years until my gym teacher, whom was teaching us archery, explained my hand and eye dominance to me. From that day on shooting was much easier and much more enjoyable since I knew I was not only left-handed but left-eye dominant. Moral being, if you try and teach your child in a way that benefits you and costs them then you may lose their interests.


Ok, that being said....I'm left-handed & left-eye dominant. Please teach your child the way that is most natural for him.
As a lefty, I approve this message.

Your job is to teach your kid, but listening to him is just as important. Being left handed is not always easy, you want to be there for him not on top of him.

My father threatened to pull me out of school when a nun tied my left arm to force me to write with my right. Ignorant penguin got it good, and I am so very grateful to my dad.
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Old 10-01-2012, 18:00   #58
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It's like using your left foot for the brake while driving. You just can't convince some people that it is wrong.
Most people I know who dont drive a stick brake this way. Then again, many dont know how to drive a stick anyway.

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Most motorcycle riders ride wrong.
Whos fault is that/ Nobody told them to buy a Harley.

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And how are you limited by weapons choices? Millions of GI's have shot right-handed rifles and pistols for literally centuries without issue.
They have shot them, but in many, if not most cases, at a disadvantage. They are fighting the gun while trying to use it. A prime example is a bolt action rifle. Even working the safety on many guns is an issue.
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Old 10-01-2012, 18:04   #59
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I knew a guy like that in the Marines. They taught him to shoot right handed then he later learned to shoot left. He could switch right to left with no problem on any firearm.
.
My grandfather was that way. He is left handed but when he enlisted during WW2 they forced him to learn to shoot right handed. Up until he got a pace maker implanted on the left side he could shoot with equal skill from both sides.
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Old 10-01-2012, 19:15   #60
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He's cross-dominant. Very common problem. Some cross dominant shooters shoot a handgun right handed and a long gun left handed.

That is pretty basic shooting knowledge. If you don't know that, have you considered getting them training from somebody who does?



You should be able to control the trigger with either hand. One more example of a basic shooting skill people here seem to have missed.


I remember doing an examination of a neurologist, a number of years ago, concerning the vocational rehabilitation of an individual who lost his dominate side upper extremity. The substance of his testimony was that, in regards to fine motor skills, the non-dominate hand could NOT BE TRAINED to function, to the same degree as the dominate hand. If memory serves me correctly, the reason was due to something about how the brain/nervous system functions, which results in making one side, dominate over the other.

Perhaps you, or some other neurologist (I presume from your assertions, that you must be a neurologist or some equally qualified medical expert) could opine and clarify this subject.

RJ
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Old 10-01-2012, 19:24   #61
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I remember doing an examination of a neurologist, a number of years ago, concerning the vocational rehabilitation of an individual who lost his dominate side upper extremity. The substance of his testimony was that, in regards to fine motor skills, the non-dominate hand could NOT BE TRAINED to function, to the same degree as the dominate hand. If memory serves me correctly, the reason was due to something about how the brain/nervous system functions, which results in making one side, dominate over the other.

Perhaps you, or some other neurologist (I presume from your assertions, that you must be a neurologist or some equally qualified medical expert) could opine and clarify this subject.

RJ
And how hard would it be to find a neurologist to support Bren's point for a few thousand dollars?
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Old 10-01-2012, 20:19   #62
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And how hard would it be to find a neurologist to support Bren's point for a few thousand dollars?

Sycophants unite, nice try but no cigar. It was the defense (insurance company) expert, testifying on cross-examination. My client was the plaintiff (the injured party).

RJ

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Old 10-02-2012, 05:58   #63
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I remember doing an examination of a neurologist, a number of years ago, concerning the vocational rehabilitation of an individual who lost his dominate side upper extremity. The substance of his testimony was that, in regards to fine motor skills, the non-dominate hand could NOT BE TRAINED to function, to the same degree as the dominate hand. If memory serves me correctly, the reason was due to something about how the brain/nervous system functions, which results in making one side, dominate over the other.

Perhaps you, or some other neurologist (I presume from your assertions, that you must be a neurologist or some equally qualified medical expert) could opine and clarify this subject.

RJ
I have spent the last 29 years being trained to shoot, shooting, competing and training others. I also know exactly what expert evidence in a legal case is worth in real world terms - not much.

Honsetly, have you never had any training at all? Shooting with either hand is a basic skill and shooting well with either hand is not that difficult.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:39   #64
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Have you checked his eye dominance? Sounds like he may be a righty with a dominant left eye.

My youngest son was that way. I put tape on the left lens of his shooting glasses, and made him shoot right handed using his right eye. Seemed to have solved the problem. 27 years later and hes still doing OK.
this ^^^^^ the RIGHT way or no shooting
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:12   #65
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I have spent the last 29 years being trained to shoot, shooting, competing and training others. I also know exactly what expert evidence in a legal case is worth in real world terms - not much.

Honsetly, have you never had any training at all? Shooting with either hand is a basic skill and shooting well with either hand is not that difficult.


I hazard to guess that you are not a litigator and that you have had little, if any, “real world” experience with forensic experts or experts in a litigation enviroment. Your statement is very foolish and asinine. Those are the statements that are typically made by shallow minded individuals exhibiting superficial analysis, but that probably does not apply to you, as you are no doubt a Glock Talk Obi-Wan Kenobi with your group of sycophantic, fawners, and flatterers.

I am unimpressed with what you would have us believe is your relevant experience. I was an active competition shooter from 1976 until 1996 and then I quit competing and now I just shoot for fun. I think that you probably do not have as much disposable income as I do and therefore I doubt that you have attended as many shooting classes, courses, seminars, events and have not fired anywhere near as much ammunition or had the free time to practice shooting as I. Up until a few years ago, I had a Camdex reloader, case sorter and case trimmer as well as the Dillon RL1000 ( their discontinued commercial reloader) so that I could shoot as much ammunition as I wanted without having to spend much time cranking out tens of thousands of rounds of quality, commercial grade ammo.

Perhaps reading comprehension is not one of your strong points as I did not say that I was not a proficient shooter with both hands but that I acknowledged that despite countless hours and tens of thousands of rounds practicing, I could not shoot as well with my non-dominate hand as I could with my dominate hand, which is understandable to anyone that understands the relevant neurological and muscular dynamics of the human body.

RJ
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:28   #66
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Sycophants unite, nice try but no cigar. It was the defense (insurance company) expert, testifying on cross-examination. My client was the plaintiff (the injured party).

RJ
Two non sequiturs in one post. Bren and I are hardly united. It doesn't matter who's expert it was, for a couple of grand I could get a neurologist to refute your neurologist.

That you're an ambulance chaser doesn't surprise me as no accomplished lawyer would try such a pathetic trick to try and muddy the issue.
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:31   #67
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I hazard to guess that you are not a litigator and that you have had little, if any, “real world” experience with forensic experts or experts in a litigation enviroment. Your statement is very foolish and asinine. Those are the statements that are typically made by shallow minded individuals exhibiting superficial analysis, but that probably does not apply to you, as you are no doubt a Glock Talk Obi-Wan Kenobi with your group of sycophantic, fawners, and flatterers.

I am unimpressed with what you would have us believe is your relevant experience. I was an active competition shooter from 1976 until 1996 and then I quit competing and now I just shoot for fun. I think that you probably do not have as much disposable income as I do and therefore I doubt that you have attended as many shooting classes, courses, seminars, events and have not fired anywhere near as much ammunition or had the free time to practice shooting as I. Up until a few years ago, I had a Camdex reloader, case sorter and case trimmer as well as the Dillon RL1000 ( their discontinued commercial reloader) so that I could shoot as much ammunition as I wanted without having to spend much time cranking out tens of thousands of rounds of quality, commercial grade ammo.

Perhaps reading comprehension is not one of your strong points as I did not say that I was not a proficient shooter with both hands but that I acknowledged that despite countless hours and tens of thousands of rounds practicing, I could not shoot as well with my non-dominate hand as I could with my dominate hand, which is understandable to anyone that understands the relevant neurological and muscular dynamics of the human body.

RJ
Wow! Just wow!
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:39   #68
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Just another data point. I'm a lefty, left eye dominant. I tought myself how to shoot right-handed handguns because most handguns, especially back then, were made for the predominantly right-handed world. Although I still use my left dominant eye, just cock my head slightly, which probably isn't even noticable to an observer.

But when it comes to rifles I shoot lefty. It's too hard to break the left eye dominance.

Your son will likely be more abidextrous than most people.
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:40   #69
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Wow! Just wow!
Clash of the Titans for sure. Not sure who will win.
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Old 10-02-2012, 21:05   #70
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Two non sequiturs in one post. Bren and I are hardly united. It doesn't matter who's expert it was, for a couple of grand I could get a neurologist to refute your neurologist.

That you're an ambulance chaser doesn't surprise me as no accomplished lawyer would try such a pathetic trick to try and muddy the issue.


What an indictment of the medical profession. Your neurologist prostitute would not stand up to the cross examination of an attorney newly admitted to the bar. I know it is probably very difficult for you to do so, but try to focus like a laser beam on the issue that what I have stated (about dominate hand, fine motor skills) is a PHYSIOLOGICAL fact. You should really take a logic class so that you can come up with a cogent argument, as it stands now, it is pathetic, really.

For the record, I have no need to chase ambulances; I am reputed to be a leading expert in my area of personal injury litigation. I have already made my money and now I function as a litigation expert advising other attorneys how to litigate cases, throughout the nation, within my area of expertise. The attorneys chase after me and I do not need to chase anyone.

RJ
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:55   #71
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What an indictment of the medical profession. Your neurologist prostitute would not stand up to the cross examination of an attorney newly admitted to the bar. I know it is probably very difficult for you to do so, but try to focus like a laser beam on the issue that what I have stated (about dominate hand, fine motor skills) is a PHYSIOLOGICAL fact. You should really take a logic class so that you can come up with a cogent argument, as it stands now, it is pathetic, really.

For the record, I have no need to chase ambulances; I am reputed to be a leading expert in my area of personal injury litigation. I have already made my money and now I function as a litigation expert advising other attorneys how to litigate cases, throughout the nation, within my area of expertise. The attorneys chase after me and I do not need to chase anyone.

RJ
You sound like a 15yo girl who didn't make the cheerleading squad. What a drama queen. I guess the judges put up with your juvenile, immaterial verbage as well? How do you find the time to bother with the likes of us when you are in the middle of a monkey trial?
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:37   #72
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He CLAIMS if he shoulders the gun as a LEFTY (again, he IS right handed) that he then CAN see through the scope (???). Plus he seems to have more trouble just trying to shoulder the gun right handed w/ no scope on it, and can do it right every time left handed?
I'd take him to an optometrist. And sooner rather than later.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:31   #73
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If it were me I'd teach both of them to shoot with either hand. Naturally they will favor one side over the other,but I can say as a left handed person living in a right hand world that having to learn how to use tools,pistols and rifles with my right hand is a very good thing. Left handed comes natural but shooting right handed does not feel unatural. I have found that being a certain amount of ambidextrous is a big plus in life. If it were me I'd make both of them shoot 60/40 with the off hand doing the the 60% of the shooting. I practice shooting both hands all the time. You just never know when your dominent hand or shoulder might get injured. JMHO.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:50   #74
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My dad is right handed, but always shoots and golfs lefty. Some people just have weird quirks when it comes to things.

I would say let him get comfortable shooting first, or else he may grow to dislike shooting if it's not natural.


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