GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-30-2012, 08:59   #101
Gallium
CLM Number 182
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Gallium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 47,557


Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
There are degrees of lying. ...

Somewhat off-topic, say, don't you have a PhD?


(jest funning with you, please don't reject my apology and make my goldfish cry )
Gallium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:11   #102
badge315
Senior Member
 
badge315's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Middleburg, FL
Posts: 3,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Imagine that this person didn't work for a dealership for a moment, but was a private citizen who had sold a car privately. He files a false police report and gets the buyer arrested. Who would you sue for a few million bucks in that case? No one.
You could always file a claim against that person's homeowner's policy (assuming they had one).

Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
As soon as a business with deep pockets gets involved, all of a sudden people are clamoring for blood. This lawsuit mentality is why it's so expensive to do business in this country.
No, the reason that it's so expensive to do business in this country is because of unethical behavior by businesses and frivolous lawsuits. And if businesses behaved properly, at least they wouldn't be subject to legitimate lawsuits. But the dealership didn't just engage in unethical behavior...they engaged in criminal behavior. The employee who filed a false police report should be imprisoned and the dealership should be held financially responsible, because the criminal act was committed on its behalf. You will never convince me that the dealership's owner bears no responsibility for this incident. Even if he didn't actively encourage his employees to engage in such unscrupulous tactics, at the very least he turned a blind eye to it.
__________________
"I am the sum of all evil...yet many still seek me out; a green jewel they must possess. But see how I destroy their lives."

- The Loc-Nar

Last edited by badge315; 09-30-2012 at 15:40.. Reason: spelling
badge315 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:16   #103
frizz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
You refuse to see the facts of the situation, and instead you'd rather throw a tantrum about how car dealers are scumballs. Thanks for proving my point.
You already admitted to making a living by lying to people when you were in auto sales.
frizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:19   #104
frizz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by norton View Post
Sounds like alot of mistakes were made in this case. Sloppy work at the dealership, sloppy police work and a greedy customer.
Guess who wins in this case?

The lawyers.
You don't know that he was a greedy customer. What makes you so sure that the second vehicle was priced at that much more.

And since you say the lawyers are the ones who win, you are even further off the mark. First off, the dealership doesn't deserve to win anything. Second, do you think lawyers should work for free? Do you work for free?
frizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:21   #105
frizz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonS View Post
If I were the buyer I would offer to set down with the owner of the dealership. He could have one opportunity to convince me that his dealership would never do anything that stupid again and one chance to offer me compensation. If he failed he could live with the consequences, if he did right by me I would offer to appear on the local TV news, shake his hand and call no hard feelings.

For an instance of false arrest I would expect a letter of apology that clearly stated that the dealership was 100% at fault. I would expect not to make any payments on that vehicle.
Until you have been wrongly accused of a felony, arrested, and jailed AND as a result had a lot of future career obstacles thrown in you path, you don't know what you'd do.
frizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:27   #106
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by frizz View Post
You already admitted to making a living by lying to people when you were in auto sales.
The Okie Corral

Once again--my conscience is clear. I never, ever cheated anyone.

I am 100% sure that there are people out there who think I did.

I never lied about the condition of a car or the terms of a deal.

I *did* agree with a woman trading in a Tahoe on an Eclipse convertible when she said her three kids would fit in the backseat. It wasn't a lie, but it wasn't the truth either. I got tired of dancing on that fine line.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:31   #107
frizz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
There are degrees of lying. I never cheated people, but when people asked me "should I buy this car" what was I going to say? Americans buy too many cars? Cars last for 10-15 years? No. I said some salesman ****.

I am massively disinterested in your apology. I was in the car business for years, I've been out of it for years, and I'm very grateful for the experience and the things that I learned.
What a load of garbage. You either intend to mislead someone or you do not.

You said that you lied, and now you are backpedaling. You didn't say anything like getting sick of coaxing people people into buying more car than they needed. You said that you got sick of lying.
frizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:35   #108
frizz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
The Okie Corral

Once again--my conscience is clear. I never, ever cheated anyone.

I am 100% sure that there are people out there who think I did.


I never lied about the condition of a car or the terms of a deal.

I *did* agree with a woman trading in a Tahoe on an Eclipse convertible when she said her three kids would fit in the backseat. It wasn't a lie, but it wasn't the truth either. I got tired of dancing on that fine line.
You are the one who said that you lied, not I. Lying is the hallmark for cheating.

EDIT: And may I add that you are arguing for this comapny to be cut some slack.

Last edited by frizz; 09-30-2012 at 09:35..
frizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:39   #109
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by frizz View Post
You said that you lied, and now you are backpedaling.
Backpedaling?

I'll say it again: I lied to people. I got tired of it.

I could have, maybe should have, told people that buying a car was a stupid idea. But I didn't. I could have told people that they couldn't afford the car they were buying. I didn't. People asked me questions, and I did not tell them the truth when I answered. I redirected. I temporized. That's lying. I fully own up to it.

That's not the same as cheating people. Feel free to believe what you want to believe, but my conscience is clear. The people who believe that I cheated them (I know they exist, I talked to some of them, and I sold some of them second and third cars) believe what they wanted to believe as well.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:42   #110
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by frizz View Post
EDIT: And may I add that you are arguing for this comapny to be cut some slack.
I am not "arguing" for "this company" to be cut any slack.

I am pointing out that the actions of a single individual at this company may or may not reflect the culture of the company as a whole, and it may or may not be appropriate to hold the company responsible for the illegal actions of a single individual.

If a nurse at a hospital murders a patient, and the family sues the hospital, what do the GT hordes say? They say "lawyers and lawsuits are ruining this country." But when it's an employee at a car dealership, all of a sudden there are people saying the dealership should be on the hook for every penny of some arbitrary amount. It makes no sense.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 10:06   #111
frizz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
I am not "arguing" for "this company" to be cut any slack.

I am pointing out that the actions of a single individual at this company may or may not reflect the culture of the company as a whole, and it may or may not be appropriate to hold the company responsible for the illegal actions of a single individual.

If a nurse at a hospital murders a patient, and the family sues the hospital, what do the GT hordes say? They say "lawyers and lawsuits are ruining this country." But when it's an employee at a car dealership, all of a sudden there are people saying the dealership should be on the hook for every penny of some arbitrary amount. It makes no sense.
On the lying thin, if all you did is only what you said you did, then you didn't lie. Not disabusing someone of an erroneous assumption isn't lying. Only a statement or act with the intent of planting incorrect information is a lie.

I can see where the conflict of making a living by ignoring your moral urge to stop someone from making a mistake would feel like a lie, but it isn't.


For your first paragraph, it may not seem fair, but I don't know of a better way to push companies to keep their employees in line. Then there's the fact that a business usually reaps profits when an employee cheats someone. In the case of a car accident, well, the business was making money at this.

For your second paragraph, sure, there is an inconsistency based on who is on the hook, but holding the company (hospital) responsible has the aim of making them be more careful in who they hire.

As an aside, I have noticed that in quite a few "angel of death" cases, a half-assed review of the kill nurse's history should have waived red flags.

On the amount of liability for the dealership, I have to argue that almost any damage amount has some arbitrariness in it since 100% precision is seldom possible.

Take pain and suffering from a wreck: it gets impossible to figure an exact dollar amount. But the person who has been hurt deserves something, doesn't he? The person who hurt him shouldn't be able to walk away because it is hard to figure an amount.

I do not disagree that damage awards can be so far off that they are in violation of due process, just as mega-punitive damages awards can. But it's gotta be something. Where that something is... reasonable minds can disagree.
frizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 10:23   #112
Peace Warrior
CLM Number 221
Am Yisrael Chai
 
Peace Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: With the other 7,999,999
Posts: 26,172
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Backpedaling?

I'll say it again: I lied to people. I got tired of it.

I could have, maybe should have, told people that buying a car was a stupid idea. But I didn't. I could have told people that they couldn't afford the car they were buying. I didn't. People asked me questions, and I did not tell them the truth when I answered. I redirected. I temporized. That's lying. I fully own up to it. ...
Hmmmm... In the interest of full disclosure, back in the day, no, make that WAY WAY back in the day, I sold home electronics and appliances for two major chains.

I could quote you practically verbatim. Such, as for me, "I could have, maybe should have, told people that buying a car this new TV was a stupid idea. But I didn't. I could have told people that they couldn't afford the car this new TV they were buying. I didn't. People asked me questions, and I did not tell them the truth when I answered. I redirected. I temporized. That's lying. I fully own up to it."

Like you, I cannot once remember lying about the terms and conditions of the deal as far as to how the financing and or in-house credit terms applied to their contract and what not.


Totally get it DD.
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales

Last edited by Peace Warrior; 09-30-2012 at 10:24..
Peace Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 10:38   #113
Breadman03
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Luzerne County, PA
Posts: 1,761
Send a message via Skype™ to Breadman03
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
They certainly should be financially responsible. The question is, did they do $2.2M in damages?
Let's say the arrest prevents him from getting a promotion or new job with better pay for a few years. He might be making 10's of thousands less per year for life.

He may have to pay higher interest until any blemishes n his credit are gone.

I don't know about $2.2 mil, but it could certainly be a substantial number.
__________________
Advanced Google search help
Wants a G41
Breadman03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 10:49   #114
JW1178
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,985
Dealerships do this crap on purpose so they can get you to buy the car and then get more money out of you. They are playing a game which in this case they went too far.

Car dealerships are places where a lot of money is moving around. A few people have to be hired that could be done by fewer people, but they have to hire more so they can "watch" each other. Basically, they get paid well to make sure everyone follows the rules. They don't work for their money, they don't "earn" money, they just make money. Because there are many people making lots of money, lots of money needs to be made, so often, it's hard to do this so they claim they struggle all the time. Kind of like banks.

Last edited by JW1178; 09-30-2012 at 10:52..
JW1178 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 10:53   #115
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,822
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breadman03 View Post
Let's say the arrest prevents him from getting a promotion or new job with better pay for a few years. He might be making 10's of thousands less per year for life.

He may have to pay higher interest until any blemishes n his credit are gone.

I don't know about $2.2 mil, but it could certainly be a substantial number.
Well, just assuming a future value with 5% year, 10k a year, 20 years, that is about $350k. Extrapolate that until retirement time, and the future value is close to $1.6M.

So if a false arrest resulted in $10k a year less income, it is easy to get to $1.6M in damages over a career.
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 11:22   #116
Gallium
CLM Number 182
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Gallium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 47,557


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Well, just assuming a future value with 5% year, 10k a year, 20 years, that is about $350k. Extrapolate that until retirement time, and the future value is close to $1.6M.

So if a false arrest resulted in $10k a year less income, it is easy to get to $1.6M in damages over a career.

I am not in a Math mood today, so I will run with your numbers.

The difference in salary between NP vs RN, or CRNA vs RN is anywhere in a range of $20-$50k a year (after factoring the cost of the Masters degree over four years).
Gallium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 11:25   #117
nursetim
Senior Member
 
nursetim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: liberalville N. M.
Posts: 6,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Like I said, I ran a car dealership. One of my guys once got drunk and drove one of our cars through someone's house. I know about liability.



Imagine that this person didn't work for a dealership for a moment, but was a private citizen who had sold a car privately. He files a false police report and gets the buyer arrested. Who would you sue for a few million bucks in that case? No one.


I'm your huckleberry, yes I would, even over a pos ford. I would also renew as often as needed, every 10 yrs I believe, the hate would keep me warm in the winter. Anything the pos owns would be mine, anything the pos would ever own or make would be mine.


Gallium, RN to NP- $40,000 for RN, $60,000-80,000 starting out. NP to CRNA- as stated above for NP starting out, CRNA $120,000- up starting out. The main difference being that CRNA do procedures and add to the practice coffers. Seeing Pt.s not as much.
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium. - I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery.

Last edited by nursetim; 09-30-2012 at 11:32..
nursetim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 15:29   #118
Gallium
CLM Number 182
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Gallium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 47,557


Tim,

Locum Tenems says in my area CRNAs straight off graduation/the boards are getting $135-$149k/yr.

I have a lot of relatives (more than 20!) who are RNs or NPs, if you include LPNs & MDs there are close to 4 doz family members (my dad was from a family of 11 brothers and sisters, none of them had less than five kids, I am one of the youngest grandkids).

In this area none of the RNs make less than $70k, but they are working long hours, or have been RNs for a while, and have all the CC/admin/etc stuff that makes em more valuable.

If a dealership got me arrested on something like this, man I'd be so vengeful,
Gallium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 16:41   #119
VANWALL
Senior Member
 
VANWALL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 738
Will someone who can follow this please post what finally is resolved (if it is ever made public).

I my opinion the person who made false statements to the police should be charged.
VANWALL is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 16:44   #120
Beretta92guy
Senior Member
 
Beretta92guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,547
boy have i learned a lot reading this thread......

i think when it comes time to buy a new car, i will just junk my old one...............and ride the bus :(
Beretta92guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 17:22   #121
GlocknSpiehl
NRA Life Member
 
GlocknSpiehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 3,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Well, just assuming a future value with 5% year, 10k a year, 20 years, that is about $350k. Extrapolate that until retirement time, and the future value is close to $1.6M.

So if a false arrest resulted in $10k a year less income, it is easy to get to $1.6M in damages over a career.
Actually, the big issue, with any person in a medical career, is once you are arrested, you are screwed. I work as a Nuc Med Technologist and I must immediately report any arrest and I can immediately have my license suspended and/or lifted. Every medical facilty does background checks and, if they see you have been arrested, regardless if you were tried or convicted, they will pass you by for one of the many people out there with no baggage.

The dealership has really screwed with this guy's ability to get/keep his license and to get/keep a job. Has nothing to do with him making less money; it has everything to do with him not being able to work in his field, ever.

Frankly, he should not only get a big,fat check, but the dealership should have to pay to have his record totally expunged and pay for any future legal bills he has to deal with in regards to his illegal arrest. It could be years before all this is cleared up.
__________________
"A well-regulated Library, being necessary to the Literacy of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed."
"I'm not stupid, I'm not expendable and I'm not going."
GlocknSpiehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 17:25   #122
lunarspeak
Senior Member
 
lunarspeak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: north carolina
Posts: 1,573
im fully done about the car and am wondering about devildogs obsessive need to be right...i was going to google ocd but i remembered 4 pages back DD told uss he knew more then google ..lol
lunarspeak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 18:51   #123
berto62
Senior Member
 
berto62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Alachua Fl
Posts: 721
If this was a BS arrest cannot a judge make it all go away?
__________________
If you calculated the money spent versus time actually used, ******s cost more per hour than the space shuttle.
berto62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 19:00   #124
norton
Senior Member
 
norton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Land of Lincoln, the growing years
Posts: 6,599
[QUOTE=GlocknSpiehl;19472076]Actually, the big issue, with any person in a medical career, is once you are arrested, you are screwed. I work as a Nuc Med Technologist and I must immediately report any arrest and I can immediately have my license suspended and/or lifted. Every medical facilty does background checks and, if they see you have been arrested, regardless if you were tried or convicted, they will pass you by for one of the many people out there with no baggage.

The dealership has really screwed with this guy's ability to get/keep his license and to get/keep a job. Has nothing to do with him making less money; it has everything to do with him not being able to work in his field, ever.



Gee, maybe he should have thought of this before he tried to screw over the car dealer.
__________________
Tinker to Evers to Chance.
norton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 19:13   #125
Gallium
CLM Number 182
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Gallium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 47,557


[quote=norton;19472360]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlocknSpiehl View Post
...


Gee, maybe he should have thought of this before he tried to screw over the car dealer.

Sorry norton, your logic is flawed. I don't expect the be the target of a SWAT team if I drive 5 mph over (all else constant), and I don't expect to be arrested and processed for a completely civil matter.

Last, if you've ever had to get in bed with a car dealer, it is easy to understand that very little of what falls from their mouths constitutes the truth. If a dealer called me a day or 4 after a deal was closed, I too would be skeptical.
Gallium is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 16:31.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,442
437 Members
1,005 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42