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Old 09-28-2012, 16:40   #51
nursetim
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Due to the Mala en sae (sp?) involved, I still stand by my every cent remark. Yes I'll spend a stupid companies money freely. They deserve to get hosed for their greedy and malicious act.
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Old 09-28-2012, 17:36   #52
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About 7 years ago, I traded in a 1994 Mitsubishi Montero to a local dealership. The vehicle had a broken woodruff key in the crankshaft. It was going to need a new crank.
The dealership allowed me $ 1,800 on a trade in. A dealership employee bought it, put an engine in it and did some off roading with it. The truck was stuck on a trail with mud and grass. Hot catalytic converter ignited the grass, truck caught fire and burned to a crisp.

The dealer tried to get us to come in and sign new paperwork that would essentially increase our purchase contract by the $ 1,800 dollars. Guess who the guy was that called us for the paperwork? The one that bought the truck, he was the finance guy.

In the nicest of ways, I told him to fornicate himself several times. It was shocking that they would do that. We did report it directly to the owner of the dealership. They did not do squat. I was expecting anything from it, I thought the guy should be reprimanded.
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Old 09-28-2012, 17:38   #53
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Sounds like sloppy police work to me. If the guy paid cash then he should have had a receipt for the vehicle. The police should have investigated it more thoroughly determined it was a Civil matter and done nothing. ( Other than arresting the manager for filing a false report.)
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Old 09-28-2012, 19:05   #54
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Car dealers are mostly scum. Then there are the bad ones.

My wife worked in the business office and did title work at a local dealer. She quit because she couldn't face the customers when we ran into them in stores and social functions, it was too embarassing to know what the dealer did to them. Heck, the service department even cheated her on a repair while she was working there.

They had one old farmer who was a widower. I think they sold him something like 8 vehicles in 2 years. He was old and half senile and lonely and would come in and the salesmen would sell him on the latest thing. They made a mint off of him.
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Old 09-28-2012, 19:31   #55
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I want to see the specs of the two cars. Did he really get a car that is worth over $5000 more than the one he originally purchased?
The more expensive one probably got the protection package - paint sealant, fabric/vinyl/leather protectant, and undercoating.

One can get all that done for under $50 and an afternoon.
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Old 09-28-2012, 21:14   #56
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Hope they get what's coming to them! Freaking hate car dealerships... scum of the earth, many of them are. Even though it looks like I'm going to have to go back for another stint and make some quick cash if I can't find a job, *shivers*

You can't trust anything a dealership says, even if it's in writing. They will do anything they can to back out of an agreement.

One of the many examples I have is I test drove this guy in an Expedition and the rear diff I think was bad on it, was making a groaning noise upon turning. We wrote the deal up to be closed with the condition the noise was fixed, at another service dept.

Client was supposed to come back in 3 days when the car was fixed to sign the paper work and go.

Came into work that day, and the car was parked nose out, straight shot out to the street.

I was instructed by the general manager to tell the client the car was fixed and the bill was $1k and everything was fine. I took it upon myself to go test drive the car myself, same noise. Asked the service manager what the deal was. He said GM got the estimate, told them no deal on the repair. Told him to park the car backwards so as soon as he rolled out of the lot, made that turn, and heard the noise, the car was his. "not our ****ing problem anymore".

Called the client myself and told him to stay away. Car went to auction the week after.
Had similar on NEW pickup. On test drive there was noise in front end. Seems they got a batch of "non-concentric" shafts. So I said "fix it before I even consider" They said. "we will fix it ONLY under warrenty" I didn't buy.
I had signed in ink contract with dates, unit #s etc. Was not worth paper it was written on.
I deal on car/truck KNOWING the sales guy will lie. That way you don't get upset.
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Old 09-28-2012, 21:54   #57
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Had similar on NEW pickup. On test drive there was noise in front end. Seems they got a batch of "non-concentric" shafts. So I said "fix it before I even consider" They said. "we will fix it ONLY under warrenty" I didn't buy.
I had signed in ink contract with dates, unit #s etc. Was not worth paper it was written on.
I deal on car/truck KNOWING the sales guy will lie. That way you don't get upset.
That may have been poor explaaining by the dealer. When I was a toyota tech, if a car failed the delivery inspection, or if there was a problem before it was purchased we were not allowed to fix it. The concept is that the dealer could "make up problems" to rip off the manufacturer by making them pay for the repairs. Until a customer paid for it all we could do was send it back to Toyota.
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Old 09-28-2012, 22:33   #58
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Negotiating $5.6K off of $40K American brand SUV isn't exactly unheard of, they could have given him a good deal to make the sale then tried scamming the full price out of him. There's also a few comments that claim to be past customers of the dealership who say the dealership tried the same thing with them, minus the actual arrest. Given that it is a fairly common scam, and other customers say they tried the same thing in the past, I'd say at worst the buyer managed to get one over on the dealership while they were trying to get one over on him.
It was my understanding that the buyer decided they wanted a different color. The new color cost more with the better options, but they forgot to add the new price in the contract.

So that's why they where undercharged by so much.

The dealer should have just accepted their mistake. After reading that story, Id never buy a car from them. Id imagine they've lost a lot of sales over this.
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Old 09-28-2012, 23:01   #59
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I am sure if the error was in the dealer's favor they would have made every effort to refund his money...
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Old 09-28-2012, 23:12   #60
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Almost the same thing happened to me once, but the dealer made the whole "mistake" thing about not be able to find financing. My lawyer-Pastor's advice was to take back the vehicle and call it a wash as the dealer's owner was also a Christian. We both walked away clean.

I do not blame the car buyer on this one though. I hope the dealership has to pay the 1.1 mill for locking this guy up. They went WAY WAY WAY over the line sending him to jail.
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Old 09-28-2012, 23:12   #61
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I am sure if the error was in the dealer's favor they would have made every effort to refund his money...
Oh yeah...
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Old 09-28-2012, 23:14   #62
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I do not see how this arrest could have happened without blatant false statements from someone at the dealership. Hopefully one of them takes the ride.
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Old 09-28-2012, 23:14   #63
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Whose pocket is the 2.2 million going to come out of? It's not going to be the pocket of the employee who made the mistake, I'll tell you that much.
Sure doesn't read like "the employee."

Quote:
He said his staff erred when they sold the SUV to Sawyer for about $5,600 too little and erred again when they went to police.
Again,

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When Sawyer did not return to the dealership, Priority staff continued their attempts to contact him via phone, text message and hand-delivered letters. They eventually contacted police
Sounds like this was a conspiracy to defraud.

Yeah, I'd say it's worth $2.2 million even though that's just the amount plaintiff is asking for. Doesn't mean he'll get it. They'll probably settle.
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Old 09-28-2012, 23:32   #64
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I do not see how this arrest could have happened without blatant false statements from someone at the dealership. Hopefully one of them takes the ride.
IMO, the Cops are squeaky clean on this one.

They may not be so smart, mind you, but I promise you they were smart enough to have the i's dotted and t's crossed as far as actually taking someone to jail on behalf of the dealership. (At least I would freekin hope so!)

No, the dealership's owner is going to have to work to save his butt on this one, and rightfully so IMHO. A million bucks sounds fair to me; however, since I am bias towards the buyer on this one, I say 2.2 mill sounds fair, and settling for 1 million seems reasonable.
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Old 09-28-2012, 23:41   #65
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IMO, the Cops are squeaky clean on this one.

They may not be so smart, mind you, but I promise you they were smart enough to have the i's dotted and t's crossed as far as actually taking someone to jail on behalf of the dealership. (At least I would freekin hope so!)

No, the dealership's owner is going to have to work to save his butt on this one, and rightfully so IMHO. A million bucks sounds fair to me; however, since I am bias towards the buyer on this one, I say 2.2 mill sounds fair, and settling for 1 million seems reasonable.
It actually looks like LE obtained a warrant so that means a judge also agreed with what was presented as evidence by the dealer.

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Old 09-28-2012, 23:48   #66
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It actually looks like LE obtained a warrant so that means a judge also agreed with what was presented as evidence by the dealer.
'Ere ya go.

ETA: Did you read Dragoon44's post? He offers a different perspective from your side of the 'thin blue line.'
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:48   #67
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With the bad publicity on this

Watch for bankruptcy or "re-structuring" or "new ownership." it's not like car dealerships were loved And cherished before. This kind of publicity is kiss of death.

What is aggravating is calling the police on a customer for a mistake they made, but that is not unheard of a dealership. Did that to a client of mine, when they made a similar mistake, but his was slightly different. His salesman even went as far as to call me to tell me I had illegally insured a vehicle. (ignorant prick). I took the liberty of commenting and asking the owner when I ran into him at the Christmas tree Auction at the country club in front of ALOT of other people.
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:00   #68
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They certainly should be financially responsible. The question is, did they do $2.2M in damages?
In liability? Absolutely.

The dealer elected to play hardball, and they're about (I hope) to lose. If it wasn't worth $2.2M to them, they should have left it alone.

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Old 09-29-2012, 06:20   #69
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I remember one time I sold a car to a guy, good credit, got him 4%-ish, straightforward hassle-free deal. The next day he quit his job. The day after that, the bank called to confirm his employment, and when they discovered he didn't work there anymore they yanked his financing. I had to call him back in and explain that he either needed to sign a new contract at 7% (with a lender that didn't do income verification) or give the car back. He then proceeded to tell anyone who would listen that we had "screwed him by changing the contract after it was signed."
!
you did change the contract after he had signed it..and it was a scumball move...not everyone that quits thier jobs is now broke and cant pay thier bills maybe he had a plan or was taking some time to do someting else with his life.

if i was him id ran out every ounce of gas id put in the thing and then brought it back and told you where to shove that 3%

maybe you should have not given him the car untill the bank says it was ok and all the loose ends were tied up..but like MOST car salesman they only care about getting you to sign the papers and to get your butt off the lot.

what you did could be compared to a mob shakedown...this guy went car shopping,went thru all the hub bub of paperwork, a contract was signed...3 days later you called him and said hey...we need 3 more percent or we take your car back.
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:48   #70
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In 1988 I bought a 1989 Ford F-150. My trade-in was paid for and I had the title. The deal was made. I left my trade-in at the dealership and drove home a loaner while my new truck was being washed, etc. I was to come by the next day after work and pickup my pickup. I got a call at work that there was a "problem" and that the dealership was going to have to have another $700 or so. In 1988 $700 was a fair amount of money-or at least for me it was. I went to the dealer after work, I told them that the new price did not work for me and asked to get my car back. Well my car was not on the lot and they did not know where it was-so I was just going to have to take their new deal. I asked if I might use their phone to call the police and report a stolen car. They looked at me and laughed. I was told that it was their property and they could do what they wanted to with it. I asked "Even without the title?". I had it in my pocket and showed it to them. They stopped laughing. In the end I got the truck and a rear bumper at the original price. It is a game to them and you had better understand that.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:10   #71
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you did change the contract after he had signed it..and it was a scumball move...not everyone that quits thier jobs is now broke and cant pay thier bills maybe he had a plan or was taking some time to do someting else with his life.

if i was him id ran out every ounce of gas id put in the thing and then brought it back and told you where to shove that 3%

maybe you should have not given him the car untill the bank says it was ok and all the loose ends were tied up..but like MOST car salesman they only care about getting you to sign the papers and to get your butt off the lot.

what you did could be compared to a mob shakedown...this guy went car shopping,went thru all the hub bub of paperwork, a contract was signed...3 days later you called him and said hey...we need 3 more percent or we take your car back.
Uh no it isn't anything like a mob shake down. You sign a contract that says contingent on the lender accepting financing.. In this case the guy got the best rate through a lender who verifies income. The guy said he makes x amount of dollars at his employer. Based on this info ill bet the computer said he would most likely get the financing. The guy then quit his job which was a determining factor on his financing. They verified his employment after he quit therefore the original contract was invalidated because his income level was no longer valid...

Every car I've bought has specifically stated the entire deal is contingent on the acceptance of my credit application by the chosen lender. It then clearly has stated if financing falls through the vehicle is still the dealers, and if the terms change I may return the car.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:14   #72
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I'm not going to pretend that there aren't sleazy car dealers out there, or that there aren't scams out there. Most of the reason why I left the business was that I was tired of lying to people.

That said, this is not at all a "common" scam. Once someone's signed papers and rolled off the lot, they're an owner. Any attempt to re-sign papers can just as easily end up with the person giving the car back. That's a far more likely outcome (I know, I've had to do it many times) than getting a person to sign a new contract for more money.

And $5600 on a $40k car is approaching 15% of the LTV. 99% of the time, even if a dealership wanted to try to scam someone in this way, they couldn't get the scam bought.

Car dealerships simply don't engage in illegal activity very often. There's very little upside. The car business is pretty lucrative as it is--every time a car rolls off the lot, the dealership makes ~$2500 worth of profit (on average) one way or another. An extra $5600 on a single car deal is definitely worth negotiating for, but is definitely NOT worth losing a deal for. In the big picture it simply doesn't matter. It doesn't move the needle at all.
I think you are conceptually correct. However, I've had the, "sorry we need to redo the contract and you owe us another X$s" and, "no you can't have your trade back because we already auctioned it off" scam attempted on me twice.



A quick FU solved the problem both times.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:19   #73
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I used to run a car dealership. If I filed a claim for something like this with my insurance company they would have laughed at me.

I can't say what sort of personal liability insurance my dealership's owner carried, but I can say that the dealership's policy did not cover things like this (where there is alleged criminal conduct). The dealership insurance is for times when the grease monkey forgets to tighten the lug nuts and a wheel falls off.
They don't carry some kind of umbrella policy to cover the weird unanticipated kind of screwups?
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:30   #74
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In 1988 I bought a 1989 Ford F-150. My trade-in was paid for and I had the title. The deal was made. I left my trade-in at the dealership and drove home a loaner while my new truck was being washed, etc. I was to come by the next day after work and pickup my pickup. I got a call at work that there was a "problem" and that the dealership was going to have to have another $700 or so. In 1988 $700 was a fair amount of money-or at least for me it was. I went to the dealer after work, I told them that the new price did not work for me and asked to get my car back. Well my car was not on the lot and they did not know where it was-so I was just going to have to take their new deal. I asked if I might use their phone to call the police and report a stolen car. They looked at me and laughed. I was told that it was their property and they could do what they wanted to with it. I asked "Even without the title?". I had it in my pocket and showed it to them. They stopped laughing. In the end I got the truck and a rear bumper at the original price. It is a game to them and you had better understand that.
Just a few years ago my brother and his wife visited a well known and generally well liked car dealership in Fort Worth.
They told the sales guy, "we are just looking today and will likely buy next week". The guy said great. They drove the car inquired about pricing and prepared to leave. Somehow during the discussion the sale guy ended up with their keys and he literally threw them high onto the roof of the building and told them that A. now they had to drive the car home B. since they were going to drive the car home they might as well fill out the paper work and buy the car.

My brother made the guy go up on the roof and retrieve the keys. The next week he bought a nearly identical car from another dealership.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:34   #75
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I agree with Dragoon. Responding to any stolen vehicle complaint from a dealership would have me skeptical to begin with. As soon as they started breaking out contracts and dealer paperwork I probably would have stopped them and said "civil matter, I'm out."
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